mdtoren

Hello!

I figure it is my time to give back, after bugging literally just about everyone on this forum.. I have got my Carb swap done, running, and tuned to a great running motor. One of the biggest issues I ran into during this swap was a lack of Recent info/part numbers..everything was out of production or under new updated numbers...so heres what I used and the issues I ran into that werent covered in the tech article - which is a great starter article but not nearly everything. Part numbers are direct from summit.com unless otherwise noted.

***Im sure theres a million opinions on what I could have done better - This is just a base starting point that will get your swap done and running****

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Intake Section
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Intake Manifold of your choosing - I use EDL-2101 Edel Performer
Intake Manifold Bolts (SUM-G1489)
Intake Manifold Gaskets (MRG-101B)
Intake Manifold plugs to plug unused ports (SUM-G1484R)
Non Computer Controlled Distributor (SUM-850001-1)
2 Valve cover breathers (SUM-G3400)
2 breather gromets (JEGS 969-4878)

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Carb Section - You pick your carb, if you use Holley, see below for what youll need..
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1. Carb (I used HLY-0-83570 Street Avenger 570cfm)
2. Fuel Log for dual bowl carb - SUM-220106
3. Throttle Return Spring (SUM-G1327)
4. TV Cable/Throttle Cable bracket (HLY-20-95) Works with stock throttle and TV cable
5. TV cable Geometery Corrector (SUM-700202)
6. Carb Studs (SUM-G1423) Not included with Edel manifold
7. Throttle Stud to connect throttle cable to carb (HLY-20-38)
8. If using Holley/edel performer combo, you need a 1" spacer to clear the primary throttle plates, otherwise they hit the manifld (SUM-G1400)
9. Air cleaner ( EDL-1203)
10. If using holley/edel performer combo your supposed to use the base plate when mounting the carb, I still debate if this did anything (EDL-2732)

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Fuel Section
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1. Return Style Regulator (AEI-13301)
2. Fuel Line - your choice, about 10 foot will do, 6 foot if your good at measuring (SUM-230610)
3. Fuel Pressure gauge (optional) (SUM-G3122)
4. adapter for gauge to mount to regulator (FRA-491203)

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Fuel Fittings - These are how I got the regulator hooked to the fuel lines and then routed to the carb, the angles may change depending on where you mount the regulator. ALL JEGS Part #s and all are for -6AN line. Mine is mounted near the strut tower on the apron.
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1.361-9894DBH attaches -6an to the oem fuel line
2. 361-9894DBJ Attaches -6an to oem fuel line
3. 799-613160 (2 of them)connects to 2 above fitings
4. 361-820166
5. 555-103212 Regulator out
6. 555-103222

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Misc. Section
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1. Adjustable Temp Fan controller (JEGS 555-52125) You lose the control without the computer.
2. Alternator Bracket (stock wont mount - JEGS 969-9321)
3. Heater Hose connection (JEGS 326-500-005.1)
4. 90* thermostat housing (JEGS 555-51113)
5. Vacuum Hose kit (JEGS 231-2104)
6. Youll want a TCC Lock up controller at some point, it runs without.
7. One of those custom bendable upper radiator hoses


Misc things I didnt know -
1. You have to hot wire the fuel pump to a switch, it wont run without that, plenty of articles on here about it. Basically you connect a wire to the fuel pump relay and out to a switched 12v source. ****As pointed out by OrangeBird, this is not the safest nor recommended way, but it works, its up to you how you choose to do it, but you have to do something!

2. My water temp gauge doesnt work, but all others do. Im sure I could have got the gauge working, but didnt.

3. TV cable will need an adjustment or you wont shift out of first.

4. Be sure to prime your carb to make starting easier, watch you fuel bowl levels, if it runs for a bit, then dies, its likely a fuel shortage.

5. I had to send back a faulty carb that wouldnt idle down with the curb idle screw, never heard of that before, but new carb worked perfect.




Best of Luck everyone, its a fairly easy swap, the hardest part was researching everything I needed, I hope this helps.

RamIt

Thanks.
I would recommend a PVC valve to replace one of your breathers. Might make the engine last a little longer without as much coke built up in the engine.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

A great write up and I'm glad it worked out for you .

I hate like Hell to nit pick , I really do and am not looking for an argument or trolling here , but , I do feel there is one important safety detail you have overlooked here . Now , I know I'll likely hear "oh , but that'll NEVER happen to me !!!" in response , but the fact that GM saw fit to design in this bit of protection that you have eliminated is proof positive of what I'm about to say here .......


"Hot wiring" the fuel pump to run full time whenever the key is on sets up the situation that in an accident bad enough to rupture fuel lines (which any accident that bad is all but assured to stop the engine) the fuel pump is gonna keep running and feed all that gas out onto the street where the car goes up in a fireball . That's the whole point of the ECM and the oil pressure switch controlling the pump , anything bad enough to stop the engine also stops the pump , reducing the risk of going out in a Viking funeral (minus the flaming boat being pushed out into the ocean , of course) . Yea I know , , "But I'll just shut off the key" ,,,,, You may not be too aware of what's going on in that bad of a crash , where the lack of airbag has allowed your noggin to bounce off of the steering wheel !

I would set up a system that properly runs the pump with the engine , any electronics tinkerer worth his soldering iron could whip up something in half an hour's time . Me personally , as a lifelong electronic hobbyist , I'd use a couple of relays , one with an adjustable time "on" function and also the original fuel pump oil pressure switch , to create a circuit that DID only run the pump when the engine was either cranking over on the starter of actually running , to avoid having Third Gen Flambe for dinner some evening .


Other than that , I DO give you an "A" for resourcefulness !

mdtoren

A Great point indeed, and something I will likely do in the future. I do understand the set up is not ideal or the safest. I included it more as awareness that you have to do something about it because it took me a fairly long time to figure out and a lot of research on how to get it operating. Post Edited!

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Cool , I'm glad you saw my post as being sincere , because I really do applaud your work here . It seems most folks who do the ; "rip out all that crappy ECM junk and slap a carb on there" , do it as a (so they think at first) quickie cheap easy way out when the TPI or TBI won't run right . They hack and chop and end up with a mess that the next poor owner ends up coming here asking how to straighten out . You , on the other hand , by the list of parts I see , did it right in my opinion and not the usual butcher job . Since you went to the lengths you did to do it right I wanted to add one more piece to your properly well executed conversion that may have been overlooked .

PS , pics of all the nice new hardware would spruce up the ol thread here nicely .

mdtoren

Heres my set up for reference!

mdtoren

And of Course and updated photo of the 'ol red dragon.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Looks great on the outside and with just a bit of cleaning up of the wiring near the relays you'll have under the hood pretty well set . Now , by cleaning up I mean putting the wires all into one of those plastic wiring looms that will bundle them all together for a neat look , if everything's working at this point I wouldn't go eliminating any .

My personal preference items only ;

Why did you eliminate the A/C ? Does it not get really hot in Summer where you live or do you not drive it on hot days ? If your not going to ever restore functionality to the A/C you kinda owe it to the build to swap in a non A/C box along with the non A/C dashboard heat/vent controls , so it don't look so obviously missing .

I would do something about getting a windshield washer tank installed . It seems that Summertime , just when we usually like to be driving these cars , is also the time the Bugs come out in force and begin the annual Bug VS windshield carnage . Literally thousands of the little buggers bouncing off the glass and you deliberately leave yourself with no defense ? Not to mention , when some big bird poops on your windshield 10 minutes into some two hour cruise your gonna have to spend 110 minutes trying to squint past smeared bird poop & bug guts swearin at me cause I told ya so

Oh , and , I do like the look of the braided steel fuel lines , they look great and add a kinda sturdy look to em compared to the bare rubber look of even the fuel injection rated hose .

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

And , BTW , don't dismiss this guys message , a properly functioning PCV system really should be incorporated into this build , over the years I've seen a few engines with clogged PCV systems push gaskets OUT of the engine (most notably the front & rear "china wall" intake gaskets) from the excessive buildup in crankcase pressure when the engine is being really pushed (pedal to the metal) ......

mdtoren

The wires have since been put in loom, it bugged the crap out of me!

As far as the A/C, I took it out because I never use it and it didnt work when I bought it. Its not a daily driver for me, just a cruise night car and around town car. I rarely use the AC in my daily as it is. I spend most of my day outside for work buying cars so Im used to it. The delete panel is on the to-do list, just havent made it there yet!

As far as the windsheild fluid, same reason as above...I think Ive used the windsheild wipers twice in 5 years, and there a can of invisible glass in the car at all times so I can always clean it on arrival if really needed.

With the PVC, my understanding has always been that the only difference between breathers and PVC is that the PVC puts the fumes back into the motor, the breathers just vent it to atmosphere. Which s why I didnt go with the pvc style...I could see a clog in the PVC system causing that blow out because its not venting an pressure, but with the breathers, it should be venting pressure all the time just not back into the motor...Incorrect?

startat2

iTrader: (2)

In on this thread, I am in the middle of this conversion my self on another '86 TA. I noticed you dont have a temperature sending unit on your intake. That would by my guess as to why your getting no reading! I salvaged the old sending unit off my TPI setup, and used a conversion plug to put it on my edel intake. Make sure you can install it deep enough so that it can actually touch the coolant. Also, it took me much longer to remove the old TPI and smog equipment than install the new. I'm waiting for a few AN fittings to come in the mail before I can button her up and get her started.

ETA- for the keep the smog and tpi removal haters, both were removed and put in storage for my 88 TPI car, the 86 is going to be a road race car

stickychinsac

The water temp gauge reads from the sensor on the drivers side head. Theres a clip that slides on it, I think it should be a green wire coming from the body harness also on the drivers side. That will get your gauge working.

stickychinsac

Im pretty sure I can see both in your pictures

mdtoren

Hmm, Ill have to try to hook that back up this week and see what happens!

antosh54

subscribed just want to keep the parts list handy

milhouse89

I am thinking of replacing my TPI with a carb, I appreciate your help in listing everything, I was hoping you could give an approximate dollar value on everything that is needed. I was also wondering if it would still pass a smog check. Looks great!

mdtoren

unfortunately I don't have a total cost as I made an original main purchase and then several follow up purchases as I came across needs and I also did a cam swap in the process, a rough estimate would be $1300 maybe a little more for carb manifold regulator fittings distributor and cable brackets and the rest.

As for smog, all depends on your check...in IL I don't have to get it bc it isn't an obd2 car. It'll throw check engine lights since there are no computer hook ups so if that's an auto fail like it is in IL for OBD2 your not going to enjoy that. I'd have to say that it would probably fail a visual inspection as well but you can hook up egr if you want and retain the air injection if you want and you might be ok there. I def. don't claim to be a smog test expert though - i actively try to avoid those testing spots.

ErikWS6

Just curious guys, but why would you want to change from TPI to a carb? I can't wait to get fuel injection into my C3 Corvette, and I've got a Cliff Ruggles built QJet (i.e. about the best carb you can get).

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

I will be modifying an Edelbrock 1904 QJet for my 334 SBC using his parts and following his book and recommendations.

siuol

Nice job. The only comment I have is on the accordion style radiator hose. This type of hose creates eddies in the water and it does not flow smoothly.

Louis

milhouse89

I have had several different problems with the way the car runs and I blame the TPI and its ECM. It's running good now but very rich. I guess the main reason I want to switch to a carb is that if you want more HP you have to get bigger injectors and I don't know what else but it cost money and I think I would rather spend it on a carb. With bigger injectors you also need to tune the ECM and the equipment to do so cost about $500 or more. I would also like to get a supercharger.

Z28kudos

Hey guys im new here and im having issues finishing up my 83 z28. I bought it as a 80% project. It starts and drives but idles high. Everything is complete except the lines running from the carb to the distributor, brake booster and the fuel pressure regulator. Lastly is there a cheaper option than the mallory fuel pressure regulator. This car is running me low. Please help!!!!!!

Z28kudos

And im also having trouble locating the fuel lines that must connect to the regulator. On my 1990 rs there are 3 lines on the frame underneath the master cylinder but on my 83 z28 theres only 1 under the master cylinder but 2 lines on the passenger side. I know im close

milhouse89

I'm more of a fix it when it breaks type of guy instead of a master mechanic so take this with a grain of salt, but on the other hand nothing has ever come up that I couldn't fix. Thankfully my transmissions have never gone South. My one observation is that you said your computer was not hooked up and even with the carb I think you might need the ECM. I am probably wrong about this but maybe someone else could clarify if you need the ECM.

mdtoren

I ran with no ECM and no issues, the swap essentially removes all functions on the ECM. You have to rewire the fuel pump relay to a keyed voltage source, which the ECM used to control but once that is done, the ECM wont have anything to control as you remove the need for MAF, IAC, O2 Sensor, Knock Sensor, etc. with the carb.

mdtoren

For me, 2 reasons - I was running into constant issues with the TPI system and never could get all the sensors working all the time. 2nd reason was that I was looking to install a cam (yeah, yeah, 305 performance - I went for the sound) but in order to do that, I would have had to invest countless hours into learning tuning and chip burning, or go through the hassle of data logging and mailing back and forth to get a custom chip burned. With the carb swap, I dropped the cam in, set the timing, adjusted the carb tune and was on my way. So much easier.

mdtoren

Use the Aeromotive part #AEI-13301, $147 on summit. Thats the cheapest I found with the right set up. It has to be a bypass style regulator if your keeping the electric fuel pump from the fuel injection that way it takes all the extra fuel your not using from the 38psi output (dropping it down to 7psi at the regulator) and it sends that fuel back to the tank. Without this style, youll burn your pump up super fast because itll continue jamming all that fuel at the regulator with no pressure release.

mdtoren

Interesting...mine had 2 lines on the drivers side rail under the master cylinder to connect to. They had some rubber hoses connected to them that went to more steel lines in front of the motor.

mdtoren

Thank you, and I agree, not my 1st choice but with the thermostat housing moving locations, I dont know where Id find a non universal hose that would fit the bends properly. I personally hate that hose mainly because it sags with coolant and worries me that one day itll catch a belt...probably not possible, but I think about things like that.