zupmanZ28

my starter took a crap the other day so i got a replacement from Advance auto and went to work at putting it in. Well I got everything connnected and bolted the new one up and tried clicking it over a few times to make sure it was gonna work, but it doesn't seem to be engaging with the flywheel, all you hear is the high whining sound of the starter turning freely. Is there some secret step that i'm missing here? Could it just be a wrong starter for the car? I bought one for the LG4 that the car was originally equipped with, but maybe it doesn't work with a "010" casting 350 block thats in it now?

Any comments or suggestions are more than welcomed....

Eric

RB83L69

What was the part # of the starter you got? Did it look exactly like the one that came out?

zupmanZ28

there's two numbers on it, not sure which one is the part#, but here you go:

1.) 5220564

2.)P6316MS

the two starters looked the same as far as i could tell except that the soleniod on the new one had one more power hookup than my old one. I asked the guy about it and he said to just ignore it. He said they put them there so the starter will be a more a more universal type unit.

any ideas?

Eric

RB83L69

That should be the right one.

It must just be defective. Welcome to low-bid rebuilt auto parts!!

zupmanZ28

i took it back and had it tested and it worked though. the pinion popped out and everything. They basically told me i was doing something wrong and to go try it again. I tried it three more times, i even had my dad go out and try, still nothing.


Eric

zupmanZ28

still having problems, i took it back and had it tested AGAIN, and it still tests good. Any ideas?

Eric

zupmanZ28

what about shimming? I took the inspection plate off to have a look at whats going on, and i noticed that the pinion seems to be resting almost on the top of the teeth on the flywheel. Maybe if i try shimming it down with a .4" shim,could that allow the gear to get onto the flywheel and start the car? I bought the shims and put all three of them in there, but got the same result, maybe using just one would work? I'd go try it right now, but it's cold and dark out.

Eric

EDIT: happy 700th to me!

86TpiTransAm

Even though the starter actually works when they tested it doesn't mean it's not defective. It's a low-bid rebuild just like mentioned earlier. It's possible that it wasn't rebuilt properly and the pinion obviously isn't lining up right even though it's coming out. Or maybe the pinion size is wrong. Compare the pinion size to the old starter pinion size if you still have the old starter.

What I would do is take it back to where you got it and tell them that you still can't get it to work and that you want your money back. Then go to another parts store and get a starter from them. You must have at least one other parts store somewhere either in that town or in a surrounding town. Here we've got Autozone, O'Reilly Auto Parts, and Leitle's Auto Supply. In nearby towns we have Napa and Pep Boys. I always just say, if you can't get it to work get your money back and go to another parts store.

zupmanZ28

i already tried that, and they basically said they weren't gonna give me back my money becasue the part tested out ok. If it were defective they would refund it but being that it tests ok, they refuse. This is starting to get frustrating.

Anyone have any thoughts on the shim thing?

TZFBird

All I have to say is don't shim it wrong. The last person that put a starter in my car before I bought it shimed it wrong and it ground the teeth off the flywheel. It's no fun losing a flywheel. Especially in the middle of winter.

scauffiel

Make sure you are bolting it in the correct holes. My block has four mounting holes - if I install the starter into the "outer" holes it won't reach the flywheel.

Steve

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Scauffiel, what the hell kind of block do you have?

I've never seen one with 4 holes. Mine's got 3 holes, which I think is pretty much standard.

Anyway Zupman, the starter should work fine with that motor if it's not defective. I just bought a 5-speed starter for my car. I forget whether I told them engine code G or H, but either way it uses the same starter. I'm using it on my 71 350 block, which is also a 010 casting. What flywheel do you have? I'm using a stock 153 tooth flywheel. Is it possible that you've got a different flywheel?

D_Amlee

Shimming the starter isn't a matter of guesswork, there's a specific method to it. There should have been a set of brief instructions included with the starter along with a checking gage. I belive that the gage is a rod, 1/8 in diameter, which should slide smoothly between the flywheel teeth and the pinion gear shaft when the clearance is correct. Rod won't fit, starter needs more shims. Rod too loose, less shims. Don't take my 1/8 in diameter as gospel... I'm sitting at my desk not in my garage.

I'm only mentioning this because you haven't said anything about trying to measure the gap to see if it is correct.

Nordbert

If the new starter is bolted to the block at the same holes, it should turn the flywheel. It is possible that the starter motor turns and the drive pops out, but the clutch in the drive is
defective and can't lock up to turn the flywheel. I'd turn the drive
with my fingers, and if it would turn both ways without turning
the armature I would take it back and demand a replacement.
If you end up buying a starter drive for it, buy one that is NEW,
not remanufactured.

BuckeyeROC

This is ABSOLUTELY correct. I put a new starter in just a couple of months ago. It should have the gauge rod with it. Mine needed both shims to be set in correctly. It just sounds like your starter is too far from the flywheel and therefore it can not engage to start the car.

zupmanZ28

this starter came with no shims, no measuring rods and no instructions. Hell the guy didn't even give me the box, he put my core in it and took it to the back. Anyhow i did get it working but im not sure how well. I put about a 1/3 inch worth of shims in it and it turned over so i started taking them out one at a time until it wouldn't start anymore, then i put two back in just to be safe. THe car starts now but it sounds wierd on the startup. maybe it's just cause it's a new starter thats actually got some power to it. But whenever it starts it will get this high pitched whine for like split second after i return the key the the on position. I REALLY don't want to take this car all apart again, it was a PITA (I have TES headers and y-pipe), but if it seems absolutely nessesary i will.

One more thing, in the service manual i have it talked about pulling the pinion gear out and meshing it with the flywheel bu using a screwdriver inserted into a hole at the bottom of the starter, but i see no hole, at least nothing that i could fit even my smallest screw driver into.

Eric

RB83L69

All the shims are doing is changing the mesh of the gears. What you have done by adding a shim pack is move the starter drive's gear too far away from the flex plate gear, which causes the misalignment that produces the awful grinding noise when the drive catches and actually turns the motor over. The shims don't address the issue of a defective Bendix. You should need the same amount of shim that was in the car before; if there were none before, there should be none now. You should take them all back out, go back to the parts store with the defective paperweight they sold you, and demand a working starter.

Quite simply, you have a defective starter. If they won't give you a working one, then you have no choice but to go somewhere else and buy another one, using that defective one as your core; and you need to make the people at the first store understand that you will never darken their doorstep again and will tell everybody you know that they are crooks.

The "test" that they are doing will not show whether the drive is capable of transmitting power from the starter motor to the engine. All it shows is that the electric motor part and the solenoid bothe work. There's more to the starter than just those things.

zupmanZ28

RB,
the starter isn't grinding so i know it can't be off too far. The original starter had no shims at all. I talked to another person about it yesterday and he said that it very well may be that the thing has been rebuilt and had the the mounting area surfaced so many times that i would need all those shims. Hopefully im gonna be getting a parts car here in the next couple of days and i know that has a good working starter on it so im gonna take that one out and use it instead of this POS Advance Auto sold me. Then im gonna try one mroe time to get my money back before turning the defective starter into a bookend on my shelf.

Eric

8Mike9

Hmmn, times like these I'd prefer to toss it through their front window...you know that they'd then have to pay at least a $50.00 deductabile to the insurance company. I'd call it square then...