Just registered today and will probably have many questions to ask. My son (15) purchased this 3rd gen last fall and we have been fooling around with it through the winter months and are now getting serious about trying to get it on the road. The car does run but very rough and the transmission (automatic) seems to be leaking fluid, but only if it is parked on a hill. Sitting on the level it does not lose fluid. Based on my inexperienced ear, I would say the motor has a spun bearing, but it does start and run. The guy he bought it from gave us a second engine for it. We pulled the plugs on the second engine and a couple of them were badly fouled. Looking in the oil cap revealed the valves were coked up pretty bad so we began a teardown on the spare motor. We now have the motor disassembled in the garage ready for cleanup. There appears to be minimal wear in the cylinders and all the pistons look good although needing carbon removed. Rings seem free. Doesnt; look like any real wera on the crank and the bearings on this motor seemed tight and all intact. No evidence of spun bearings. He is building it as a daily driver for now and we would like it to be reliable but not looking to race or anything of that sort.

Would it be a crime to ream the ridges off the cylinders, clean it all up, put a new set of bearings and rings in it, a new cam and lifters, a timing set and put it back together? Would this be a mistake? I talked to a machine shop and they are saying I would have over 1500.00 in it to bore it out and do a proper rebuild. At that point I might as well put a running junkyard LS motor in it. (I realize modifications would be required)

I feel like this is a good father son bonding project and even if it ends up sold for parts, it will be a good educational experience, I just don't want him spending good money after bad. He is in the process of stripping the body down to bare metal to get it prepped and painted.

My thoughts are, slap the spare motor back together on the cheap and get the tranny leak fixed. This gets him a running, driveable car and we can then build a new powerplant on our own time, probably an LS based NA motor as money allows.

Would like thoughts of those who are more experienced with these cars than me. I rebuilt a 1970 chevelle when I was his age but it has been a long time since I have gotten greasy and a lot has changed with all the electrical spaghetti so this will be a little bit of a learning curve for me as well.

Additional questions... How do I know for sure which of the two motors was the original? Are there numbers to match and if so where?

 

What does the rest of the car look like? Is it going to be a beater? Or is it something you want to eventually be a nice car?

I wouldn't spend a dime on the 6cyls. At most maybe do a cursory search for a 3.4L from a 93-96 Camaro or Firebird. If you can find one that runs, that you can get nearly for free, then maybe it's worth sticking with the 6cyl. The 3.4 will drop in place of the 2.8 with minimal modifications, see the V6 sub-forum if that interests you.

Personally, if the end game involves an LS swap, throwing good money after bad would apply to rebuilding the V6 for now. Why spend the money, and do the labor when you're going to theoretically do it again later? From past experience, a running V6 thirdgen is hard to give away. If your son loses interest after rebuilding the V6, you'll probably be looking at selling the car for a loss.

I'd recommend going with whatever engine you think you both will be happy with over the long term. At the very least, I'd think you'd want a V8, and anything short of that will probably get boring VERY fast.

 

Car is not to bad but not mint by any stretch. The body is pretty straight although the front bumper cover has some damage (perhaps hit a deer at one time). It had the factory rear window louvers and it has a set of z28 rims. It had factory AC. Other than that it is pretty much bone stock. The hood is rusted on the underside (suspect it is not original) and there were two small rust spots in the rear quarters that had some rust. One small spot on the roof. Rear upholstery looks like new but drivers seat and carpet are trashed and need replaced. headliner needs redone, dash needs recovered. The usual stuff. It could make a nice car but would likely be a long time before it appreciated to the point where he would ever make money on it. Will try to get a picture posted up. Not planning for it to be a show car, just a fun first car for him to work on, learn, and fix up.

 

I've got a 2.8 and its great fun.

Spent a fair amount of money and time on it.
All well spent in my opinion. And since only my opinion counts, I'm calling it a win.

True the 2.8/3.1/3.4 cars are in no danger of being "valuable collector's items."
Good.
Means parts will continue to be cheap, and I don't have to meet anybody'd standards but my own.

Spend as much money and time on it as suits you. My motor is in the (slow) process of being "freshened" as they say. Meantime, it has its leaks and weaknesses. Still get a real hoot out of driving it. Can WOT without feeling like I might die only 2 seconds into it.

I've got another car with an LS in it. Fast. Crazy fast. Get you killed fast if you aren't smart about it.

If you have notions about making major changes under the hood of your 87, be sure you don't have to pass "visual" inspection. You could spend a fortune dropping an LS in a third gen, only to fail visual inspection in a lot of places because you've altered the "original configuration" of all the smogs and crap.

Turn those wrenches. Experiment. Learn. Have fun.

 

A hobbyist should never set an objective of "making money" off fixing up old cars.

Once you are trying to make money off working on old cars, you are headed down a losing path nine out of ten times if your time is worth anything.

If you want to have any chance of making real money off old cars, you have to be willing to spend a lot of money, and take a lot of risk. And you have to have a place to safely store those expensive old cars while you wait for the right buyer.

 

My son and I had a bit of an extended talk last night. He has pretty much decided he isn;t interested in all the extra HP and performance at this time and wants to keep things as stock as possible. I respect his decision. I think it speaks well that he wants to be sensible, safe, and responsible. So with that in mind, it looks like we will be pushing forward with a complete teardown, cleanup, and rebuild on the spare motor. My thanks to those who commented and gave opinions on both sides of the issue. I will be posting pictures and documenting the engine rebuild portion in the V6 section.

 

I would recommend STRONGLY against "rebuilding" one of those piles of ... cast iron.

That'll cost you the best part of $2000, push-in to drive-out. For probably a fifth of that cost, you can get and install a perfectly good one that will drop right in and be "stock", in the form of a buzzard egg. No sense spending THAT MUCH MONEY that you don't have to, on something that won't make a lick of difference after you close the hood.

Throw both of those away, AFTER and NOT BEFORE this: go buy a running junk one and put it in.

 

Beg, borrow, or steal a test drive in a 2.8L thirdgen before you commit to spending the money.

We're not talking about "making money" or "more hp". To say 'extra hp' is to imply that a 2.8L makes any hp to begin with. Now granted, I can recall some late 70's and 80's cars that were slower than a 2.8L Camaro, but they're pretty uncommon now. I mean a 2.8L Camaro is more capable than say a straight 6 Ford Fairmont, or a 2.5L GM anything, but by modern standards it's sloooooowwwwwwww. Like hold onto your butts, we have to merge into traffic!

I don't mean to discourage you, and by all means do what you think is right, just know what you're getting into. An average modern car from the last 10 years with a V6 will blow the doors off a 2.8L Camaro. Be prepared.

 

I understand completely what you both are saying and couldn't agree more. If it was just me, I would be putting a 5.3 in it, but I think there is some wisdom in a 16yr old with no driving experience starting out learning how to drive a low HP dog. If nothing else, it will motivate him to build another engine a year or two down the road which means he will have to maintain a job to fund the project as well. All positive aspects in my book. I learned to drive on a 1985 Chevette, so I fully realize the issues of driving an 80's car without enough power to get out of its own way. It was good for me and almost kept me out of trouble. LOL.


Right now I think he is more interested in making the car look good than making it go fast. There is plenty of time for him to build a monster down the road when he has more driving experience and mechanical experience, of course by then, he may have to use an electric motor to beat anything, (which BTW might make and interesting third gen project and make massive amounts of torque)

Of course when we get a final estimate on what the rebuild cost will be with parts and machine work, he might decide to do a swap.

 

Don't necessarily "swap" anything; just, DON'T "rebuild" those existing motors. That is BY FAR the most expensive way you could possibly put the car back on the road.

Go get a similar but later-model engine; a 3.4 out of a 90s Camaro/Firebird for example. Take off of it whatever is different from the motor that belongs in the car, and put the car's stuff back on it. Once the car is running, throw away all that other crap that came with the car.

Don't perpetuate the previous owner's bad decision making and mistakes.

A "rebuild" is going to be $2k, EASY. You can pick up a perfectly good one at the buzzard nest for a small fraction of that.

 

5150 , I think the members here are leading you down the right path to replacing the 2.8.

I had an '88 SC that had a 2.8 and promptly switched to the 3.4. Good choice! Take a look at this 'how-to' if you have any questions:

https://www.thirdgen.org/swapboogie/

 

Update, I stopped at the local buzzards nest and asked about a 3.4. They had nothing. They said they could probably get one in but it would be $500 -$700 depending on the miles and condition. Same price as a ls based 4.6L. I really have no guaranteed the 3.4L motor would be in any better condition than what we have torn down right now which was likely a "running" junk yard motor. So we could end up $500 in the hole and be right back where we are now. My son does not want to do any modifications on the electrical or fuel system.

Here is a link to our rebuild post with pics. Unless we run into some unforseen hurdles or problems, I think we can have this motor back together with new bearings, rings, cam, lifters, gaskets, timing set and be in under $600.00 https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/7...-2-8-87-a.html


Current plan/budget
Sealed power bearings 20.00
Crane11802-1 1.6:1 rocker arms. 100.00
Camshaft/lifters TBD. $150.00
Perfect circle rings $40.00
Gasket kit 80.00
Cam bearings 25.00
Timing set 45.00



Everything goes back together as was with no modifications needed. Can skip the 1.6 rocker arms if needed to trim budget. Might be able to skip replacing cam if it cleans up good and measures OK.

If he decides to get crazy, we could put in 3.1 crank /rods and make it a stroker. Still would be under 500.00 and all clean.

 

I would do a 350 and 700 r4. Wouldn't really cost more than rebuilding the 2.8 run carb on a 350 Vortec all you really need would engine trans motor mounts and crossmember all readily available j yard parts.

 

Might be a hitch in plans... Just ran across a 305 that is reportedly out of a 89 Camaro. It's a TBI motor. The price is right to assume a little risk. Wouldn't this pretty much be a direct drop in, Are we looking at a complicated swap due to computer differences or could that all be mitigated with putting a carb in place of the TBI? Since many came stock with 305 I am assuming everything fits under stock hood without modification and it should all bolt up. What about accessories and radiator?

 

Carb would work, but having the TBI would be a lot better - less maintenance and tweaking, but that's just my personal taste.

It's sounds like a better option than the 2.8 - if you go the TBI route you will have to locate an engine harness - the MPFI one won't work. I had once installed a 454 big block in my 88 SC that had MPFI. I had to modify reprogram the ECM only because of the fuel capacity the engine needed, but in your case, just locate the right ECM and harness. You may also need to change the front coil springs.

 

So if I stick with the TBI, there aren't really any pitfalls to the swap other than finding and changing ECM and harness and then getting it tuned? I don't think the ECM and harness are going to be coming with this engine. I suppose I can pull one off a truck at the JY?

 

I recall finding an ECM and harness at a JY for about $150 at the time of my project - around 1997. You can go to www.car-part.com and search the JY database. You may not need to tune, I had no problems at all with the new drive train configuration other than modifying the ECU chip by a remote programmer, which was a real PITA because of all the guessing involved as to how it would work with the unique setup. At that time, chip mods were not the norm, especially the case for stuffing 454's in a once v6 SC.

 

Unless the 305 is free, it's not much better than the 6cyl. 170hp, no torque, tiny cam, restrictive exhaust, etc... A V8 swap is involved if you want to do it right. Nothing that ties into the V6 will interchange. Just in the short list, you'd need a V8 trans, V8 radiator, V8 exhaust (at least from the cat forward), V8 starter, V8 accessory drive setup, V8 intake, V8 motor mounts. You'll also need fiddle with the 6cyl fuel system to work with a V8. It's no MORE work to install a LS based engine than a 305, because the LS has as much in common with the 2.8 as the 305. Potentially more expensive, but no more systems of the car need to be addressed with an LS.

A carburetor is probably the easiest way to go. 87 was never sold with TBI, so you'd have to either start from scratch, or try to copy the 88-up TBI setup. It's really not worth the hassle when you can emulate the 87 4bbl carb setup, except with non-computer controlled Quadrajet. Not to mention the carb setup doesn't require custom chips, or wiring nightmares, you'd have a choke wire, and a power feed to the distributor, in fact you could pretty easily modify the harness from the V6 to make it work.

I still say that if you WANT an LS1 next year, or five years from now, don't waste money converting to something less, it's not money you'll ever get back.