Justin93

Hi Folks,

First off, I've tried looking high and low in the forums on tgo, austins, and sethirdgen for guidance and am still stumped with my no start issue. Most folks seem to bypass the module and add a push start but I don't want to go that route - I want to fix this issue correctly.
No flash EPROM, no resistor bypass.

1991 Camaro RS 305 TBI, 700r4 Auto. This is VATS equipped, the original owner installed a Clifford Aftermarket alarm system which has been acting up recently. It use to only beep once to unlock, and twice to lock. It now beeps once to unlock but when I try to lock, it beeps several times like it's in panic mode and the Clifford security LED light flashes rapidly. When this happens, the car alarm tends to go off more sensitively than normal, sometimes randomly. Not sure if this is associated to the problem but I suspect it to be.

I believe this problem originated almost a year ago where it wouldn't start intermittently. SOMETIMES the car would start and more often the solenoid would just plunge (You can hear the thud) but the car wouldn't start. NOW THE CURRENT PROBLEM started last weekend when I tried to start the car and all I heard was a click from the starter relay - the starter/solenoid is no longer clicking - and the car doesn't start. After attempting in starting the car and failing I've noticed the Clifford Blue LED Security blue LED indicator light flashes. My dash lights all illuminate, headlights work, etc. I've tried using both my Chipped original GM Keys which the prior owner gave me 2 pairs. I've only used 1 key in the 6+ years owning the car and I've tried using the other key which appears flawless like new to see if it's a resistance issue but there is no change - I suppose I can measure the resistance between these two keys this weekend.

I believe this may be VATS related but I'm not 100% sure if it's the VATS or the Ignition key Cylinder.

So it's been a year since the original problem started happening and now the entire system doesn't want to start at all and I hear a click from the starter relay behind the Driver Side Kick Panel. I do not hear the solenoid plunging anymore which is odd (Can anyone chime in on this?)

Parts I've replaced:
- Distributor
- Ignition Control Module
- Ignition Coil
- Spark plugs/Wires
- Fuel pump Relay
- Oil Pressure Sending unit
- Starter Relay
- Battery + New Pos/Ground posts, wires, and connectors

Testing:
- No Check engine codes
- Inspected Fuses and tested Starter relay for continuity
- Starter works when jumped to the battery
- Tested Fuel pressure and checked out fine (Yes Fuel pump primes with Key in 'on' position)
- Load tested the battery under starting conditions and checked out fine

I need my car running again for work and school and I do all repairs/testing myself at home but work 50 hrs a week and 10 hours a week of classes so I've been strapped on time and wanted to post here to get some suggestions.

My thoughts on what It could be:
- Ignition Cylinder
- Neutral Safety Switch (Auto.)
- Clifford aftermarket alarm system installed by prior owner
- Possibly a short, but I've checked all underhood connections and almost all connections in the cabin EXCEPT the Neutral safety switch wiring.

I have above basic electrical skills and I can read electrical diagrams and it looks like the starter relay signal should trigger the Auto. Transmission safety switch (Neutral safety switch) and THEN energize the starter. Since the starter is no longer even plunging, I have reason to believe it could be the safety switch but how do I test this switch? Basic diagram shown here: http://sethirdgen.org/vats.htm

Tomorrow morning I'm going to start trouble shooting by:
- Clean contacts in ignition switch and on the key
- measure the resistance of both keys THEN the resistance of the 2 white wires with key in the ignition to test if the resistance doesn't match then I'll replace the ignition cylinder.
- Test the Neutral Safety Switch **Any suggestions?**
- I have an AC Delco Ignition Cylinder Part # D1456C brand new in box and ready to install if needed but want to isolate the problem not just throw parts at it.

I want to do it the right way even If I have to take apart my steering column like I did on my 84 z28. Only difference is my 91 has VATS. I have no problem getting my keys re flashed for the correct resistance whether by a lock smith, or if GM offers this service still (I believe they do).


Any help would be greatly appreciated! I've seen Lou on the forums on this topic alot and hope he or anyone can chime in.

Thanks in advance for your time and feedback!

Johnny Gun

From what you described, I'd start by disconnecting the alarm system and returning it to stock and see what happens.

Justin93

Hey Johnny, appreciate the response.

I ended up looking into the Neutral Safety switch first and noticed there was a splice into the factory Beige wire w/ white stripe of the connector that goes into the neutral safety switch.

I inspected it and someone spliced rigid stereo type between the beige wire. I tugged the wires to make sure the connections were still secure and they were. I then tried to start the car and it started right up. That was the only thing I did and I'm still not convinced that was the problem.





I did also replace a shifter plate bulb and the switch itself while I was down there.

I'm going to replace the old alarm system next weekend and remove all the original spliced wiring from the previous owner so I know it's done right. Before installing the new viper system, I'm going to drive the car around with the stock system wiring and see how that goes.

For now, the cars running and I'm keeping the torq spit tool and pry tool for the shifter just in case it decides it doesn't want to start. Still not convinced that's the problem since the connection was secure on both sides. I'm going to do some research and see what that wire powers.

Justin93

UPDATE 6/16/18:
I've only driven the car once or twice since fixing the neutral safety switch wire in my last post.

I went to home depot 6/15 to get some tools and my car left home with no problems - started up fine, no excessive crank, even drove fine too.

When I left home depot, I cranked the car about 2-3 times and it finally turned over and I noticed it was idling very low/inconsistent. I was driving out the driveway of the parking lot and my car just cut out while it was on. I tried to turn it back on but it was just cranking - not turning over.

It was cranking fine and had 12.6v at the Battery but it wouldn't start.
I did a spark test with spark plug #1 removed and there was no spark.

ALSO The fuel injectors were not spraying at all when cranking.
I tried throwing some starting fluid at it but it still wouldn't start up.

This leads me to believe it may be a VATS problem because in the 88+ models (may be different year range) the VATS system cut off the Injectors AND spark but allowed the starter to crank. - Someone chime in here if possible!!

I'm almost convinced this is my Ignition Cylinder from wear and tear over time (Had to do this in my 84 z28 before but it didn't have VATS).

Let me know what you guys think before I start taking the wheel off.

I have the new ignition cylinder and can get a GM Chipped key matching the resistance to my stock key.
I just hope this is the actual problem, couldn't tell you how many times this has happened to me at inconvenient times.

I may go to pick n pull and try and pull a 91 RS 305 TBI Computer if I can luck out and find one just as a backup.

Any feedback is appreciated and hope everyone had a great fathers day

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

If you don’t have spark and injector pulse. You have a icm or pu coil issue.
First start bye checking the pink wire to the coil from the ignition switch for power. Then test the lead to the icm for power with the coil pluggged in the harness. Still this is the pink wire. If you still have 12v your icm or pu coil is defective. You can test the pu coil with a vom. See the attached link.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm/4....ed-icm-tests-1

tealman92

If it was a VATS issue the starter wouldn't crank at all. Im betting on the ICM.