Spending a fortune in belts HELP!
Spending a fortune in belts HELP!
I have a 88 firebird with a 350 that I recently swapped in.
So far, it has broken 3 v-belts, and I cannot locate the problem.
I have tried running them loose, and running them very tight, nothing helps. There is a very loud squealing noise immediately on startup, and it gets worse with rpm.
My setup consists of 3 matching pulleys (all from the same ~'75 Caprice) from the junkyard. All the grooves have been cleaned up. I have the belt going from the right side of the crank pulley, up the right side of the water pump pulley, from the water pump pulley to the alternator, and from the alternator to the crank pulley again. The belt is in good alignment as far as I can tell, it tracks straight next to a straightedge. It also sits nice in the pulley grooves.
IS the belt routed wrong? Do I need another belt just for the crank and water pump? The 350 is making 300 ish wheel horsepower. The belts were new Napa ones, and after about 5 minutes of driving, each got hard and crispy, and broke clean.
ALSO, the squealing seems to be coming from the alternator area. After like 3 minutes of idling with no hood, the alternator is already very hot; like, cook bacon on it hot. It kind of groans when you spin it in your hand off the engine; not any more than any other used alternator I've seen though. Could the alternator be seizing up? Is that possible? I sprayed PB blaster around the bearings to see if the squealing changed (so scientific, I know). It did not change at all, and continued to cook the next belt. Alternator still charges as it should, but I haven't been able to long term test it because of the overheating with no belt situation.
I am really stumped. Alternator? Different belt routing/pulley setup? Serpentine belt is not an option.
As if this post wasn't long enough already:
I am using the original V6 alternator and wiring that was original to the car. It is mounted on the left, and spins clockwise. Which way would an 88 Firebird V6 alternator spin?
So far, it has broken 3 v-belts, and I cannot locate the problem.
I have tried running them loose, and running them very tight, nothing helps. There is a very loud squealing noise immediately on startup, and it gets worse with rpm.
My setup consists of 3 matching pulleys (all from the same ~'75 Caprice) from the junkyard. All the grooves have been cleaned up. I have the belt going from the right side of the crank pulley, up the right side of the water pump pulley, from the water pump pulley to the alternator, and from the alternator to the crank pulley again. The belt is in good alignment as far as I can tell, it tracks straight next to a straightedge. It also sits nice in the pulley grooves.
IS the belt routed wrong? Do I need another belt just for the crank and water pump? The 350 is making 300 ish wheel horsepower. The belts were new Napa ones, and after about 5 minutes of driving, each got hard and crispy, and broke clean.
ALSO, the squealing seems to be coming from the alternator area. After like 3 minutes of idling with no hood, the alternator is already very hot; like, cook bacon on it hot. It kind of groans when you spin it in your hand off the engine; not any more than any other used alternator I've seen though. Could the alternator be seizing up? Is that possible? I sprayed PB blaster around the bearings to see if the squealing changed (so scientific, I know). It did not change at all, and continued to cook the next belt. Alternator still charges as it should, but I haven't been able to long term test it because of the overheating with no belt situation.
I am really stumped. Alternator? Different belt routing/pulley setup? Serpentine belt is not an option.
As if this post wasn't long enough already:
I am using the original V6 alternator and wiring that was original to the car. It is mounted on the left, and spins clockwise. Which way would an 88 Firebird V6 alternator spin?
Last edited by 82transm; Jul 9, 2018 at 09:18 PM.
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Re: Spending a fortune in belts HELP!
The belts were new Napa ones, and after about 5 minutes of driving, each got hard and crispy, and broke clean.
For this to happen, one part of the system is not spinning.
Take all the belts off to figure which component is bound up.
Then install 1 belt at a time, run engine, install another, run engine, until you find the problem.
Start with the belt closest to the block first.
For this to happen, one part of the system is not spinning.
Take all the belts off to figure which component is bound up.
Then install 1 belt at a time, run engine, install another, run engine, until you find the problem.
Start with the belt closest to the block first.
Re: Spending a fortune in belts HELP!
The belts were new Napa ones, and after about 5 minutes of driving, each got hard and crispy, and broke clean.
For this to happen, one part of the system is not spinning.
Take all the belts off to figure which component is bound up.
Then install 1 belt at a time, run engine, install another, run engine, until you find the problem.
Start with the belt closest to the block first.
For this to happen, one part of the system is not spinning.
Take all the belts off to figure which component is bound up.
Then install 1 belt at a time, run engine, install another, run engine, until you find the problem.
Start with the belt closest to the block first.
Re: Spending a fortune in belts HELP!
I'd predict that something is probably not aligned right. Generally there are a few brackets that overlap, along with spacers and studs, etc that all need to be in place for the pulleys to align. Removing some brackets can result in others being pushed out of alignment.
The other thing that comes to mind is that the pulleys probably have a gazillion miles on them, and the belt surfaces might be micropolished to the point that a new belt might slip. You might try roughing up the V groove with some coarse sandpaper, 60, 80, 100 grit.
Give the pulleys a really good look from the side and look for anything that isn't square, and aligned. Fix anything that isn't right. Don't be scared to toss everything and grab a matched set, all the way down to the nuts, bolts, and washers from a complete donor in the junkyard.
The other thing that comes to mind is that the pulleys probably have a gazillion miles on them, and the belt surfaces might be micropolished to the point that a new belt might slip. You might try roughing up the V groove with some coarse sandpaper, 60, 80, 100 grit.
Give the pulleys a really good look from the side and look for anything that isn't square, and aligned. Fix anything that isn't right. Don't be scared to toss everything and grab a matched set, all the way down to the nuts, bolts, and washers from a complete donor in the junkyard.
Re: Spending a fortune in belts HELP!
I'd predict that something is probably not aligned right. Generally there are a few brackets that overlap, along with spacers and studs, etc that all need to be in place for the pulleys to align. Removing some brackets can result in others being pushed out of alignment.
The other thing that comes to mind is that the pulleys probably have a gazillion miles on them, and the belt surfaces might be micropolished to the point that a new belt might slip. You might try roughing up the V groove with some coarse sandpaper, 60, 80, 100 grit.
Give the pulleys a really good look from the side and look for anything that isn't square, and aligned. Fix anything that isn't right. Don't be scared to toss everything and grab a matched set, all the way down to the nuts, bolts, and washers from a complete donor in the junkyard.
The other thing that comes to mind is that the pulleys probably have a gazillion miles on them, and the belt surfaces might be micropolished to the point that a new belt might slip. You might try roughing up the V groove with some coarse sandpaper, 60, 80, 100 grit.
Give the pulleys a really good look from the side and look for anything that isn't square, and aligned. Fix anything that isn't right. Don't be scared to toss everything and grab a matched set, all the way down to the nuts, bolts, and washers from a complete donor in the junkyard.
My alternator was 1/2 off from the crank pulley, that problem was solved with some washer shimming.
BUT, the death squeal was something unexpected. The belt the Napa guy said was the "common size width for old stuff" was actually way too thin, allowing the bottom of the V belt to ride in the groove (You bet im blaming the napa guy). And because it's a toothed belt, it has about 1/2 the surface contact. It was as easy as looking at the teeth on the belt; they were melted about halfway off. Wrong width belt.
Can you tell I'm of the generation where everything has a serpentine belt??
Power steering is next, we'll see how many belts that thing throws.
And yeah I totally agree, walking around the junkyard today I saw there were about 50 usable serpentine systems that would've been easier. I could've snagged one and paid about the same as I did for the cobbled together front accessories junk I currently have. Lesson learned 👍
Last edited by 82transm; Jul 20, 2018 at 10:50 PM.
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Re: Spending a fortune in belts HELP!
V belts went the way of the dodo for a reason. I went to a lot of effort to remove all the trash from my 86 Trans Am and it was easily one of the best upgrades I've done.
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