Hello I'm new to Third gen Camaros but not new to 2nd gen's. I just bought a 87 iroc 350ci auto. that was running perfect, but had to replace the crank. Engine is back in the car and besides a couple of burps, the engine will turn over but not start.
I am not getting fuel at the spark plugs, which are new and still dry I have spark at the plugs but will not fire, coil is working fine, new cap, new rotor I replaced the fuel/oil pressure sensor near the oil filter. I have 42lbs pressure at the fuel filter and 38lbs at the Schrader valve I have a very, very small drop of fuel pressure at the regulator. I am told that I don't have enough fuel pressure and should replace the fuel pump. I have 12ohms at the injectors and just over 12v at the injector plugs, I removed the fuel rail and then removed the injectors I noticed the o rings on the injectors seemed hard but re-installed them back. This is my first tpi or fuel injected engine that I have ever worked on is it possible the o rings or injectors are the problem?
Thanks in advance for any help .Rosco
I also put a led light on each injector plug and each one flashed.

1972 Camaro Z28, red black stripes,4 speed .
1987 iroc Yellow ,350,auto 70miles 2 owner car.

 

If the O-rings where the injector plugs into the rail were bad, you'd have fuel everywhere. Does the engine sputter or it's totally dead?

 

Does it start if you shoot starting fluid into it?

 

No fuel anywhere around injectors when cranking, tried starting fluid and nothing happened, I push Schrader valve it will shoot out fuel.once in a while it will sputter mostly it just turns over and doesn't start.
Thanks

 

Then it has no spark, or if it does, it's at the wrong time.

Check the distributor timing. Verify that when it's at the firing instance of #1 & #6 TDC (they come to TDC together), as opposed to the instance of #1 & #6 TDC when #1 exh valve is closing and its int is opening (aka #6 firing), that the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug wire.

 

and check your ICM under the distributor cap. Especially if it's original

 

I will double check timing, i bump started the engine to get TDC my finger was pushed off the plug hole, checked timing at tab and was about 6* advance, coil is new, module is new, rotor and cap new, I don't understand why no fuel going in the cylinder, rotor is pointing at #1 wire on distributor.
.

 

If you sprayed quick start in there you'd have at least got a sputter if there was a spark. Have you done a compression test? Maybe your valve lash is too much. You can also remove the fuel rail with the injectors and test fire them into a bucket and see what's going on with them

 

I sprayed brake cleaner in the plenum and got 1 loud backfire, then I sprayed (either) starting fluid and got nothing.


OK so because of the very loud 1 shot back fire, I checked timing again, this time I bumped the motor over till I got 360* revolution, I did that a 2nd time to make sure I was on compression stroke, took the cap off rotor was pointing at #1 on the cap closed everything up and tried starting again and it fired for a second or so I tried a 2nd time and it was dead, I tried again and nothing then I checked the Schrader valve and nothing no gas came out, I turned the ignition key back on heard the pump start for its 2 second then checked the S-valve and barely any fuel came out.
I did a compression when I got the car all cylinders are 170 - 175.,

 

1 loud backfire out of the plenum indicates timing. Like Sofa mentioned. You may very well be 180 degrees out. I've done that more times than I can remember.

 

Backfire came from the back pretty sure about that, re-checked timing spot on, not much fuel came out of the Schrader valve after priming, I'm going to disconnect fuel hose near fender turn the ignition on and see how much fuel comes out into some type of container. Does anyone know how much fuel should pump out in the 2 seconds when the fuel pump runs to prime the rails?

I'll also check how sofa explained the timing, so if I'm on a compression stroke and #1 is TDC then #6 should also be at TDC. got it.

 

I can't remember but I think at key on there should be about a 2 or so second prime and around 60ml of fuel. Like a shot glass worth. It's in the service manual but I don't have mine at hand

 

Fuel Pump Flow Test 1988 Service manual

1. Test fuel pump by connecting hose from EFI fuel feed line to a suitable unbreakable container.

Apply battery voltage to the fuel pump test terminal (terminal "G" of ALCL).

2. Fuel pump should supply 1/2 pint or more in 15 seconds.

3. If flow is below minimum, check for fuel restriction. If there is no restriction, check pump pressure.

 

Thanks, everyone, for all your help I really appreciate it.
I'm out for the evening and will be back at it tomorrow.
Rosco

 

Hey guys, back at the car,I disconnected the fuel line at the driver fender, turned the key on and got 1.6 oz of fuel from prime,next I turned the engine over for 15 secs. and got at least 8oz of fuel. The weird part is that when I attached the rubber fuel line back on the hard line on driver side and tried to start it fired up then it went dead again.I pulled a plug and it had carbon on it so it did fire, dem little gremlins are annoying.

 

Have you changed your fuel filter? You may have a restriction somewhere. You may think you have good fuel flow but it seems as though it's not meeting the engine demand.

 

Yes I replaced the fuel filter.
So if I have spark, and fuel in the rails but plugs are dry it must be fuel pump or injectors.
I put a gauge on the fuel filter and cranked the engine gauge read 42lbs. I put the gauge at Schrader valve and got 38lbs that seems to be normal, or is it not enough lbs.
I removed the plenum and runners to clean them up,at the same time I removed the fuel rail and injectors and just did a visual on the injectors the o-rings seemed very hard I put a bit of oil on them so they would slide back in the rails then put everything back together with new gaskets.
The engine has turned over and tried to fire to the point the headers actually got warm a bit, then nothing, no fire, no burp, nothing dead.
The only other thing I did not mention is the check engine is on when I am cranking.
Thanks rosco

 

How long did it stay running? 38 is well within range. Have you checked for Codes?

 

Justhad the same symptoms (crank no start) and a change of the ICM fixed it. Was corroded

 

I wouldn't say it ran , it seems like a couple of cylinders wanted to fire then nothing, the engine ran great before I took it out of the car, it started right up, idle was smooth.everything was good.
I just don't have fuel going to spark plugs.
So I think it's fuel pump or injectors, the injectors have 16 ohms, plug has 12v, I put a LED diode and when firing engine, the LED pulse sated on all cylinders.
Fuel pump is 42lb at fuel filter, Schrader valve has 38lbs, fuel regulator is not hooked up to vacuum and after a minute no fuel at Schrader valve.

 

you should hear the fuel pump prime at key on (don't crank) are you hearing it? It should prime for a few seconds then stop

 

Can you confirm that the fuel pump is running when you're cranking the starter? It SOUNDS like you're getting your 2 second prime, then the pump doesn't run again, after that.

Quote:

I turned the ignition key back on heard the pump start for its 2 second then checked the S-valve and barely any fuel came out....

^Proof of nothing, but there is a pattern of claims going on that supports that the FP primes, but then doesn't run w/a crank signal.


OTOH, there is a LOT of conflicting info given by the OP in this thread, which makes the testing/info pretty questionable.
^That is not possible; pressures equalize throughout a hydraulic system.
"Pascal's law states that a pressure change applied to a confined, incompressible fluid is transmitted equally and undiminished to all parts of the fluid and the walls of its container."
How or why would you have 42 lbs in one piece of pipe, and then only 38 lbs further down the same pipe?? Unless you have a MASSIVE restriction somewhere in that pipe which is essentially dividing the pipe into two separate hyd systems....You can't have "42 lbs" in once place and "38 lbs" in another place in the same pipe.



From post #1: Then, post #20:
For the love of god!!....why'd you do ALL THAT WORK....and not even bother to crank the engine at that point to see with your eye *****, the injectors firing??? Or not firing. My god, what a missed opportunity!


One more thought: How long was the car sitting from date of bad crank, to engine is back in car?

 

(1) Yes the fuel pump is running when I'm cranking, fuel pump stays on for about 2 seconds after I stop cranking. When I just turn the key on not cranking fuel pump will run for about 2 seconds I understood that's the fuel pump priming the fuel rails.
(2) I connected a fuel pressure gauge at the gas filter at the tank then jumped the fuel pump from the 2 wires that connect to the fuel/oil pressure switch near the oil filter to run the pump, I got 42lbs. coming from the gas tank
I then connected the fuel pressure gauge to the Schrader valve on the fuel rail, turned key on fuel pump came on and got 38 lbs at the fuel rail on the gauge.
(3) My mistake reads 16 ohms, not 12 ohms on the injectors.
(4) When I removed the runners and plenum, the engine was no longer in the car. Before it went back in the car, I cleaned part of the engine, intake, runners, plenum then decided to take the injectors off to see how they are held in place and how to reinstall them. This is my first TPI engine, have never taken an injector out before.
(5) engine was out of the car for 4 weeks, and I'm on my 2nd week back in the car..

I've learnt a lot in 6 weeks about TPI but apparently not enough.

 

That is some good info. Thanks for filling in some details.

I'd try it with ether again. If you know it's got spark, then it should start on ether.

 

If you know 100 percent that you have fuel, air, and spark then what's left and still unknown is compression in my opinion. Unless your ECM is cooked and the injector driver is out to lunch. Check for any codes by jumping the A & B pins on the ALDL connector below your steering wheel for starters.

 

OP says he checked compression already.

 

Missed that. Getting harder to follow

 

I agree.

 

Honestly at this point I would try to zero everything out and go over the basics. re-check the firing order and make sure you're 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. These problems occurred after you changed your crank. Are you absolutely, without a doubt certain your cam timing in relation to your crankshaft was correct? The timing dots on the gear set is lined up correctly?

 

Yes compression is all 170 to 175..
I removed the runners and plenum ,disconnected IAC,MAF and just left the injectors slightly out of the hole on the intake cranked over the engine and nothing came out of the injectors I have fuel from the Schrader valve and I hear fuel pump working on prime and when cranking, I plugged 2 injectors at first not to create a gas mess then plugged 2 more till all 8 are all plugged in,no gas all while cranking each time,
Should gas have sprayed out of the injectors, is this a way of checking for fuel at injectors that should work?
Would a faulty fuel regulator cause a no fuel.
Timing is spot on, I did TDC on cylinder # 1 and checked cylinder #6 for TDC and both are good.
Timing dot are lined up dot to dot.

 

Yes. If the ignition is on, the distributor is hooked up, the injectors should fire. I've done it, to test this exact problem.

No a bad regulator wouldn't cause 38 psi in the rail, but no fuel from injectors. If you have 38 psi in the fuel rail, and the injectors are not shooting fuel while cranking, then the injectors are not firing.

 

What would the cause be injectors not firing, I just took the fuel rail with injectors off the top of engine., I put a 9v battery to the two pins on the injectors and some clicked loud and some not loud?

Just checked injector plug all are 12v+ except for the 9th injector.

 

lower them into small containers or something, or a rag and crank it and see if they all fire. They are batch fire so they'll all go. Not one by one like MPFI

 

I could only do 1 side at a time.
Right. side I cranked for 15 seconds 4 injectors worked for a total of 3 times during the 15 seconds, looked like a nice cone but didn't seem like much fuel.
Left side 15 seconds all 4 injectors work but more of a fume than a cone and not much gas at all.

2nd time
Right side cranked 15 seconds, very fine fume I can't see that keeping a engine running, around 10 seconds hardly any fume coming out.
Left side same as the first time, again 15 seconds.

Wanted to get injector # pulled the injector out of the rail, I won't do that again!
injector #5235302.
Thanks for everyone's help, I'm not use to all this and may not explain something the right way.

 

Pull your injectors and look very carefully at them. You may very well have crap plugging them. Look at the screens at the feed end. Reach out to @southbay08 as well. They may be able to add to this.

 

sounds like you have some dirt and or debris in those injectors...especially if some of them are not pulsing/clicking or spraying properly. I may have missed part of this post but was the engine sitting for a while???

 

The person whom I bought the car from drove it this past summer, and prior to him, I think it sat for a while, I don't really know the history,it has 71000, miles on 38 year car which is in excellent condition. I think these might be original injectors,I will check the injectors tomorrow,they do click 2 seem strong and the rest weak,they do pulse, but they seem to have a very weak spray.

 

Looking a LOT like bad injectors. Good testing.

 

Sounds like they are pretty dirty. Did you test the resistance on them?

 

Yes, they all came back at 16ohms, going to see if I can clean them or just bite the bullet and buy a new set.

 

If you need them, get them from South Bay. They deal with our cars all the time

 

They can ohm fine, but still not pass fluid through the orifice properly. Not open, be plugged, etc.

 

seems to be exactly where I'm at, going to see if I can clean them up.
Great bunch of knowledge on this site.
Thanks to everyone, I will keep you updated on my starting problem.

 

Good luck!! Keep us posted

 

Hey guys, brought the IROC to a friend's garage, and they are stumped after all the tests.
Question: if the noid light sometimes does not light up during its cycle, would that point to the computer?, I noticed this while I was at the garage.
Would anyone know if a Cardone # 776571 ECC works for my 1987 5.7L w/auto trans?
Could the prom be bad?
The garage has come to the same conclusion as me: everything is good, the injectors are clicking, I have spark at plugs but engine will not fire. I did notice that the noid light was sometimes intermittent.
Tomorrow is another day.
Thanks Rosco.

 

Are you talking about injectors here when you say 'diode light'?

 

my bad again, Noid light,

I just edited it with Noid not diode, sorry for the confusion.

Engine will not fire because no gas at spark plugs. fuel rail tested at 38*

 

Have you verified that the fuel filter is installed in the correct orientation? Arrow should point in direction of fuel flow.

 

Yes, Fuel filter installed correctly.
Thanks

 

This sounds ECM related. Perhaps@TunedPort could chime in.