1990 Camaro rs,305,auto trans. Stock. I've owned this car for 10 years now, and ever since that I've owned it in the summertime or anytime when it gets hot I've noticed that it will not do anything when you go to turn the key. If you let the car sit for a while and it cools down it will start up again. Bypassed the Vats system thinking that maybe the key cylinder contacts had worn and were intermittent. No change. Replaced the starter over the years 3 times. No change.
I'm hoping somebody here might have some kind of advice as what could be causing this. It's annoying because sometimes you'll get stuck in a parking lot for 10 or 15 minutes until it decides that it finally wants to start. When it does this theres no click,no crank no nothing. And yes,battery is new and in perfect working order. I've just been putting up with this for about 10 years now and today I finally had enough and thought I would ask and see what I can do to stop this

First of all need to diagnose properly. Get a wire diagram and voltmeter and start testing the key switch crank circuit for voltage starting at first connection from key switch. Keep going to the next connection until you find where it stops.

Heat related starting issue, after replacing the starter several times... I would ABSOLUTELY check your ICM, the Ignition Control Module. Not a definitive but surely one of the top 5 consistent failures I've experienced with both the ThirdGen Camaro & the Caprice Classic.

[QUOTE=JimRockford;6576344]it will not do anything when you go to turn the key. [/QUOTE
need to explain this here more thoughouly.

replaced the starter with what? another stock style starter? new? rebuilt? china part? did you have the removed starters tested?

Youre leaving out valuable information to this story and that makes us guess.

I bet if you throw away the junk bulky SBC starter and install a high torque mini starter out of a later model GM vehicle, you have no more issues. I say this because autozone cheapo starters are just that..

Hi,I forgot to mention,I did replace the original ignition control module when it failed a couple years ago. The ignition control module wouldnt have anything to do with this though. The car would crank even if that went bad. It just wouldnt have any spark. As i said in the first post. When its hot it does NOTHING when you turn the key. No click,no crank,nothing. Same as of the VATS was bad

[QUOTE=bk2life;6576355]I dont know what "valuable" info im leaving out and its easy enough to ask something specific if I did and I can answer. In my first post I stated that it only on summer days or when the car is hot "mid gauge" and has been on the freeway does it do tjis. When it gets hot It does NOTHING. There is NO click,no nothing. It behaves the same as a VATS issue. It will not crank. You can hear the fuel pump when you turn the key amd thats it. The car had a factory GM starter when i bought it. It did the same thing then on hot days. I replaced the starter when the solenoid gave out. Second starter was also a new delco one. (Not rebuilt) The car did the same thing. Only when it was hot outside. Never ever have this issue in the winter. Third stater was an autozone lifetime one. Again does the same thing. So its not a starter issue unless all thee starters magically have the same exact issue which is highly unlikely given every other third gen used these "bulky factory starters" and nobody else here is complaining about this problem. Ive also owned 8 other 3rd Gen trans am over the last 35 plus years and never had this issue with any of those cars and they all were stock. There really isn't any other information that I can see that I'm leaving out. Everything else on the car is Factory stock. The car was adult owned,never monkied with or driven by a Todd from Beavis and Butthead. When I bought the car it had under 70,000 miles on it and I got it from the original owner. Ive owned it 10 years and its done this same exact thing with all of the starters. As the other member said ts a heat related issue. The car starts fine always in the winter and when its cool out. It only does this on days when its 90 or so and the engines hot and has been running a while. If I let it cool down a while it fires up again. Someone else said that it could be bad capacitors in the ecm that controls the VATS. I dont know if thats true or not. All I can say is that I never had this issue with any of the other third gen (transams) that I've had. Does this 4th Gen starter motor you mention bolt up exactly as the larger one does with no issues or mods needed?

Looks like this guy was going through the exact same.thing

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...m_content=post

My apologies, I skimmed as was on a ICM rampage already lol and it was the first thing that came to mind. I totally missed the No-Crank Condition. On my 90 IROC-Z the only No-Crank situation I had I thought was the Ignition Switch but was found to be the starter. Do you by chance have a GMSM, if not here's a pic from my GMSM which might help you troubleshoot. Best of luck!

[QUOTE=bk2life;6576355]No problem. I appreciate your trying to help. Yeah,the ICM is a common failure point. I always carry a spare wifh me now. Lol.
upon reading some more threads last night I found that there's several people that had the same issue. But nobody ever seems to have really figured out what caused it

[QUOTE=JimRockford;6576385]Note that as temp rises resistance goes up and voltage drops. So any marginal connection will more than likely be your cause.

[QUOTE=Don Fetherolf;6576394]Battery is new. Cable connections are clean,no corrosion. All the wires to the starter are in great pyshical shape and all connections at the starter are solid.

Can anybody here tell me what size the bolt is that goes from the brace into the engine block? I took the starter out today to look at it and lost the bolt that goes into the top of the stater brace into the engine block. Need to know the thread size,length and head size to get one from the hardware store

This is good advice. If you arent able to do this wherever the car stops working then I would start by replacing the fusible link by the starter. I have seen them do this before due to poor connection.

[QUOTE=JimRockford;6576418]Understand that from your original post. What about all the connections from key switch crank signal wire down to the starter. Any of those could be corroded, spread terminal making marginal connection, wire pinched, etc (connection at bottom of steering column, vats, ecm, relays, bulkhead pass through, etc)

you need to check the ignition switch down on the steering column,the actuating rod and adjustment-also swap out the ignition switch if you have a spare handy.

IIRC it's ¼"-20, maybe ¾" long, maybe a bit less. Very similar to the valve cover bolts on a perimeter-bolt VC. Had a captive washer IIRC. Not really a hardware store item as far as an exact dupe butt a bolt of that length with a lock & flat washer would probably stand in for it nicely.

^These guys are giving you the right advice. Do ^that^.