I need a pump to move HOT engine oil from an external ~1/2-1qt drain tank back to the oil pan, both sides at atmospheric pressure..

1. It needs to be as cheap as possible. I'm not paying for a real dry sump style pump for an experiment.

2. It needs to be reletivly long term durable. Doesn't have to last 100,000 miles but I can't be replacing it every few hours either.

3. It needs to be able to live with being pumped semi dry. Oil flow WILL be constant, but the gph of the pump needs to be higher than the gph into the tank, it cannot be allowed to overflow.

4. It has to be sealed well enough to not leak more than.....say.... my rear main already does.

5. I don't know what the pump output really needs to be. Probably not more than 1-2 gpm.

6. I'd prefer 12v electric but can make provisions to mount a belt driven type.

7. I don't care how afro engineered it would have to be or now it looks. It can be a windshield washer pump from a 68 plymouth for all I care.


I've looked at a few industrial sources, but havn't seen anythign that will work for under $150-300. I have some ideas, but I'm not sure if any of them will work.
-a stock style mechanical fuel pump.
-A power steering pump. Probably a 4th gen one or an import one designed to use a remote mounted tank.
-I've heard some years of Ford Escorts used an externally mounted oil pump...how bout that?

Thanks for reading...now start brainstorming

 

I've seen some 4-cyl diesels with externally mounted oil pumps. Maybe you could try them.

 

Jester,

I can only imagine what you have going on.

The fact that you will be pumping hot engine oil rules out most plastics. The oil is enough of a challenge in itself for plastics, let alone the fact that it can easily be over 300°F on a turbocharger application. There is also the challenge of selecting a metallic pump that will not damage itself by running dry or cavitating. Add to that the desire for something under $150, and you certainly have made the choices limited.

A mechanical fuel pump might survive the engine oil, but probably not HOT oil. If you can find a really expensive one with Viton or EPDM diaphragms and valves, you might have a chance, but then you'll have to mount and plumb it in an already tight compartment. A remote electric unit seems like a better choice on that basis. If you can find the right pump and have the space, the fuel pump might be the answer. The other, more obvious choice might be an electric fuel pump for a TBI application, since they are a little more tolerant of running dry. I'm not sure how they will react to the temperature though, since they are still largely plastic.

Forget about the power steering pump, since they need a constant supply of oil to survive. And the windhield washer pump might last a whole five minutes with hot oil. A marine bilge pump is usually plastic as well.

Have you considered using the PCV system to scavenge out the oil collection tank? The CCV is under a constant vacuum and has to pass through the sump area before it gets to the intake. I'm not sure how constant the flow would be, however.

 

The thought of a PCV type system has occured, but I'm not sure I can do that any cheaper than pumping the oil. Just using manifold vacuum won't work because the boost will cause problems.

I'd need a vacuum pump, which isn't cheap either. I had a smog pump rigged to suck that worked good for awhile, but it didn't hold up either. Never did do an autopsy to see why tho, might be an answer there.

I might even still have a spare TBI in tank pump..guess I can try it. Doesn't seem to me liek it's very likely to hold up. I seem to recall them having heat problems just with gas if they ran dry.


What 4cyl diesels might have them? could give that a try maybe.

 

I believe the isuzus we have have external oil pumps. It seems to be built into the alternator, though . Either that or they have oil cooled alternators.

I've heard of others that are like that but I couldn't tell you which ones.

 

The ideas also been mentioned of using an LT1 electric smog pump...that could work for a PCV pump...

 

LS1's have electric smog pumps too.

 

btt I'll look into the electric smog pump but I'm still hunting for ideas. Thanks for all the ones so far.

 

Jester,

Forget about the electric A.I.R. pump from an LT1/LS1, unless you want to gut it first. There is a foam-filled cavity inside the body to act as a filter/silencer. The air pump itself is nothing more than a plasit impeller, and it might work for oil but the case is not sealed that well between the intake and discharge. It doesn't matter a lot when moving air, but oil may be a different thing entirely. The motors are also NOT rated for 100% duty cycle, so it may not last long either. I've had the one on Momma's '94 apart twice in three years to repair it. Sorry, I don't have photos.

A 12V electric motor that is rated for 100% duty cycle is the HVAC blower motor. Perhaps a small 12VDC oil change pump, like J.C. Whitney's P/N 81BF2638X ($15.99) or something like that might work.

 

Jester,

Other possibilities are available through Grainger. They offer a flexible impeller oil transfer pump that can run dry, has a 12VDC motor with cables, and is electrically reversible in case you screw up the plumbing all for under $95.00. The catalog page doesn't give the maximum temperature rating of the oil, but you could call and ask.

 

Thanks for the ideas Vader. I might end up trying something like that pump.

As for the AIR pump idea, I wouldn't try to make that pump oil. Just convert it to a crankcase vacuum pump. Maybe with some negative pressure in the oil pan..it *might* drain a little better.

I know..it's a long shot..but what the hell.

 

Just a quick question, why do you need a pump? You didn't specify why so I could be off base, but I'd just mount the drain tank higher than the oil pan, put a drain in the bottom that runs to the oil pan, and boom no need for a pump. It would be a lot cheaper, very durable, and gravity would do all the work for ya.

 

rhuarc,

I think one or both of his turbos have oil drains that are too low to effectively gravity back into the sump, and you don't want to run turbos out of oil.


Jester,

The AIR pump I've had apart doesn't generate enough vacuum to probably do you any good. There is a breather line at the air filter box on both the SS's and there isn't that much suction developed there. I have seen DC powered vacuum motors, but they may be a little overboard and still aren't a positive solution. Even a belt driven AIR pump doesn't create that much pressure differential, or we would be talking more seriously about them being used for boost (aren't we just about overdue for another "leaf blower" discussion thread?)

 

lol..maybe I can rig a leaf blower to pump the oil....

 

Heh, no I guess you don't want a turbo to run out of oil But he didn't say so I had to ask. In that case I remember calloway had a scavenge pump that was integrated with the belt tensioner on the vette systems. No idea on the price, but it may be a way to look. Other than that the pump Vader is talking about sounds like what you need as long as it will take the heat.
Or more expensive, but maybe one of those oil accumulator systems? I remember reading that some were designed to work with turbos, but that was a while ago so I don't remember the details.

 

I've heard you can reverse the valves, or something like that, inside a mechanical fuel pump, so you can make it into a sort of vacuum pump. I dont know if a mechanical fuel pump will hold up to hot oil, or how well it tolerates being run dry, but it may work.