Rockin-Iroc

Okay, I didn't take this guy seriously. I was sitting at a redlight very late one night coming home from a night shift, and I heard this weird buzzing noise. I turned down the stereo a little and opened the window, thinking it was coming from my engine. Turns out there was a Subaru WRX next to me, holding his revs up to around what sounded like 5000 rpm and he kept glancing at me and then watching the other light. I thought, "Whatever".

I have a ratchetting shifter, and can always get a much more brutal launch by ratchetting all the way down to 1st and controlling the gear changes. But this time, I didn't think the butt-ugly Subaru would be much of a challenge. I thought that by the time he comes out of turbo lag, I'll be 3 carlengths ahead.
BIG MISTAKE.

The light turns, and this guy who I've let sit half a carlength ahead of me (due to my overconfidence), literally launches like a funny car and completes that car length. My slow reaction activates a panicky stomp on the gas pedal, which causes my 255/50VR-16 Dunlops to lay down 100 odd feet of black rubber and lots of noise...BUT, I stick to this badass Subaru's rear bumper. Here's where the shock comes in for me. We stayed into it until around 120 mph, and he did not gain one more inch away from me, nor did I gain one more inch on him.

The next light starts to turn, we've already tempted fate with the local cops, and a crowd of cars is gathering up ahead, so we called off the race. I made sure to give him the congradulatory thumbs up when I passed him in traffic though. Probably not the reaction he expected.

My engine is not original. In fact, it's a 355 cubic inch 4-bolt truck block. The heads are ported, and there's port work on the upper and lower TPI plenums. I'm running Hooker headers, a true dual exhaust, 2 1/4" through an X-pipe crossover, twin high flow cats, and a pair of Thrush Super Turbo mufflers. I have a variable fuel pressure regulator set to 45 psi. The cam is an Isky 221/221@ 0.050" with 0.465" intake lift and 0.485" exhaust lift. I am not running a modified prom yet, because I'm having one custom burned. So the prom is a stock California-spec 305 chip.
The tranny is a 700R4 with a 2200 rpm stall with lock-up feature. Rear end is 3.36:1. Shifter is B&M Megashifter for F-bodies.
K&N filters with air box cut out. Screens removed from MAF.
Typical.

Anyway, those ugly WRX's are deceptively quick, when they're not caught in turbo lag. And apparently, this guy wasn't.

Vicious 88 GTA

dude the reason why he jumped on you like that is for the fact that he is AWD, even a moron who can dump a clutch knows how to launch an AWD....and hey man don't sweat it, tonight traction almost costed me a humilated loss...to an Explorer sport....wel none the less, good race....AARON

MdFormula350

great run!! watch out 4 wheel drive and a turbo can cause some trouble...

D's89IROCZ

I seen the Quatro system fo that in races against M3's and , 911's as well ...... totally spank everything ....offf the line

at least you were a sport about it

zerogsx

He didn't have any lag because he launched from such a high rpm. My Eclipse only has lag if I don't let the turbo spool up from a dead stop or I'm driving under 3000rpm. I don't have to back down from anything short of a Syclone/Typhoon, 911 Turbo, 3000GT VR4/Stealth RT Turbo, etc from dead stop in my Eclipse. WRX's have similar powercurves to DSMs, so unless he can't drive for crap-- he'll get the holeshot everytime. Magazines tested the WRX at 14.1-14.4, so they're not dogs.

paul_huryk

Drag radials make 4wd cars less of a problem. It isn't very sportsmanlike when you can launch like them and murder them on the top end.

25THRSS

I wouldnt take a wrx lightly if i were you, those things can be very fast with very few mods

brodyscamaro

my uncles is running mid 12s with a couple of mods........

383backinblack

hehe drag radials are fun......

especially when you bolt them to an axle thats hooked up to lift bars. hehehehe

xxwarrior36xx

Yeah to quote suburu "the beauty of all-wheel drive" my friend. Sucks don't it. A kid in my dorm last year had one, put a chip, turned up the boost, and did an exhoust on it and ran high 12's, on stock POS tires. Those are serious cars.

BuckeyeROC

Yeah, those WRX's aren't too bad. LS1's can run 12's really easy though too. Hope mine does this spring
I've seen guys on LS1tech running DEEP into the 11's with cam and bolt-ons, with stock heads!!! That's my goal after I get this IROC done.

BigErns90IrocZ

They are easy to get into the 12's I hear. But I have rarely heard of anyone getting them anywhere other than the 12's.

FyreLance

Hey I like WRX's.

Yep, AWD gotchya outta the hole...

tpivette89

just cause you have AWD doesnt mean your gonna win the launch every time over non AWD cars. my stock suspentioned Corvette gets consistant mid - high 1.7 60fts at the strip. what do you 60ft?

TPI + drag radials + 2500 stall converter = you seeing Corvette taillights at the red light

89blackGTA

Man, you need to let that sweet setup breath a bit more. Other than that good race. Keep us posted if you run him again.

Brian

zerogsx

Those are impressive 60's, what do you run in the full 1/4 mile? How many other mods do you have? (edit-- just saw your sig, sorry)

The last time I was at the track with my GSX was in 99 when my car only had the free DSM mods (modded boost control solenoid, chopped airbox, removed MAF silencers, etc...) I ran 14.4-14.6's with 1.6-1.9 second 60's all day on street tires, depending on what rpm I'd launch at. Now, I have a boost controller, 3 inch downpipe, 3 inch cat, 3 inch cat-back, 2.5 inch upper intercooler pipe, 2.5 inch throttle body elbow, with an ACT 2600 clutch. I'd venture to say I'm well into the 13's now. If I shift hard enough, my windshield wipers turn on and my old muffler used to hit the ground on hard launches. Once I get a high flow fuel pump, I'll be able to turn up the boost even more.

My 92 L98 Z28 Heritage Edition ran 14.1's on street tires. I only had K&N drop-ins, Flowmaster exahust, and subframe connectors. I just moved, and I packed the timeslips away somewhere. I don't remember what my 60's were in that car. My Eclipse would walk away from that car easily from any speed, not just a dead stop. It even walked away from from my Z28/SS 6-speed at any speed. My 92 Z28 was quicker in the 1/4 mile than the Z28/SS too.

I just said I don't have to back down from anything short of those cars. Meaning I wouldn't be suprised if they outlaunch me. I'd certainly give props to an 89 Corvette if it hooked up harder than me on the street. I have nothing but love for L98 power... I'm working on 3 L98's right now, actually.

I used to hang out with a guy with an awesome 1989 Corvette with a 1996 body conversion and 1991 dash conversion. He did a TH700R4 to ZF6 conversion. check it out at http://www.vettextc.net/index.htm

maroon91rs

good race Rockin.get a friggin exhaust and let that thing exhale!!youre giving the poor thing asthma for crying out loud!!i bet you mighta pulle don him had you had a good 3" ex on that car.

hey zerogsx are you on dsmtuners or dsmtalk at all?

C-Dawg

man, there is something that really bugs me about Subaru's.....I hate the way they look, i hate the way those engines sound, but ill admit they can be quick....they dont have much top end tho at all...damn u Subaru......AWD.....grrr

zerogsx

I'm on dsmtalk as zerogsx. I've been on clubdsm mailing list since 99 as trbochdgsx. I bought my GSX as a winter car too, but I had to lose my dream car 92 Heritage Edition in the process. I really just needed a manual transmission. I was really intrigued by turbos too. I'll have another thirdgen someday soon. My 96 Z28/SS 6-speed just did nothing for me, and was pretty disappointing.

I love 91 Talons styling the most. We (my pseudo-business) are working on 2 90's and 1 91 Talon TSi AWD 5-speeds right now. Well, we're actually selling 2 of the 3 this week, hopefully. We also have 4 3rdgens and 2 2ndgens as projects.

Not to get too far off topic and hijack the post-- Based on your mods, you probably would have taken a stock WRX if you hooked up, Rockin-Iroc. Sounds like you have a real torque monster...

ATOMonkey

Do you know why those DSMs rock so hard back and forth on launch and during shifting. Everyone I've seen is real bad about it.

I do love those cars though. My friends '91 Talon launched like a mad man smoking 3 tires. He ran a 14.5 on his and his trans wasn't shifting well for him at all. It started falling apart though so he sold it.

paul_huryk

Just thought about this - the Subaru is the 2003 version of the 1990 Talon/Eclipse. Although I will say this - the Subaru is definitely ugly (not compared to the DSM cars, but almost anything) and have no doubt that the 13 year old DSM motor design is many times better than the 2003 Subaru - think about it, Subaru is not known for their motors; but their 4WD systems.

Someone mentioned lack of top end, which is only true if you look at the 60' times compared to the ET. You might run 1.7s 60' times with a DSM/Subaru, but if you compare it to a RWD car that runs the same 60' times, you will have your a$$ handed to you as the race goes longer. My favorite example is the DSM that runs the Lingenfelter/Rippie LS1 Vette. From 30mph its not even funny how fast the Vette pulls away (its almost a shame). They race from a dead stop and the DSM pulls 4 or 5 cars off the line and the Vette comes roaring past a few seconds later. A 11.5 car vs a 13.2 car is not much of a race, unless you only count the first 200ft.

zerogsx

do you mean how they squat when launching and shifting? That's normal, it's just weight transfer. watch any moderately quick AWD car and they'll do it. unless they have some hellishly stiff rear suspension or something.

Inwo

I don't understand what your point is exactly... An 11.5 car can beat a 13.2 car in the 1/4 mile...WHAT A REVEALATION! The vette is a race car and the DSM is your average street driven DSM. I guess 11.5 rwd vs 11.5 awd would mean the rwd would win somehow? I'd like to see you pull an 1.7 60' on the street with a RWD car. Seriously.

paul_huryk

My point is the DSM ripped the vette out of the hole and got passed at 60 like it was standing still. 300hp and AWD will give you a great take off and maybe 13.3 at 105mph, 425hp and RWD will give you the 11.5 120mph run that makes you drool.

I had a friend with a near-stock 1989 L98 IROC (headers and cat-back) that ran 1.79 consistently with a stock converter, 100hp NOS, and nitto drag radials - ran 13.0 at 104.5 all damn day. The car hooked as well on the street - he would pull 3 cars on me out of the hole and it would be about 60-70 when I passed him (2.0 60').

383backinblack

I dont care what your car is,

AWD RWD DSM etc,

unless you have slicks of some type, excellent suspension (for traction) and ALOT of power,

NO ONE IN ANY CAR is gonna pull a 1.7 60' on street pavement.

there is no traction compound or rubber laid down on the street, and its a much coarser surface providing less area for contact patch reducing the overall effect of static friction and dynamic friction by an enourmous margin.

to say it happens on a regular basis is ridiculous, and if the numbers come from a g-tech (which theyd have to, unless someone setup a timing system on a road) i dont buy it.

Inwo

This argument makes no sense. Duh wow a 13.2 car loses to an 11.5 car. Amazing! If the DSM were an 11.5 car then the race would have been more fair. But it wasn't. It was some stupid video some dude made for a goof. I'm not even going to address this stupid issue anymore because it makes no sense to compare a 13 second car to an 11 second car, it's just plain stupid!
AWD gets good traction with HARD launches on the street being easily possible due to all 4 wheels putting power to the ground with great weight transfer. You should ride with someone who knows how to drive an AWD car and they'll show you that it's possible to get really hard launches on the street without too much wheelspinning drama on street tires.

383backinblack

I didnt say that you cant launch hard....but on the average if you timed cars launching on street tires on asphalt on the street,

i would venture a guess that the 60' times would easily be 3 to 5 tenths slower than they are on a concrete pad at the track covered with rubber and traction compound.

Can an AWD car launch harder on the street than a RWD car? well yes in most cases they can.....but they arent pulling 1.7s on street tires on the street.

IF they were then average RWD cars (slightly modified) would be pulling like 2.0s or so.....and they arent, no way in hell, i bet they are closer to 2.5 sec.

paul_huryk

I agree 100% that the average 4wd car will launch better (on average) than a rwd one, no two ways about it. I do think it is probably a 2 or 3 tenth difference between the two, which is a lot to make up.

I don't agree with the rwd car being 3 to 5 tenths slower on the street, unless the cars in question run slicks at the track and regular radials on the street, hard to fathom. I only go to Englishtown to race - the best events are held there (at least I'm within 35 miles), and it is an asphalt launch pad, not concrete. When they load it up with traction compound, it makes almost no difference unless you run slicks (or street slicks), so I throw that one out the window. I run consistent 2.0 60' times on Michelin Pilots at the track - and since I drive them on the street too, I know it is about the same launch for both. Most of my friends have the same experience/opinion on that one.

The question is, if you know a car like a DSM or Subaru will definitely pull a few cars out of the hole, would you race? I would, but that is because I know I will run them down. If you think you can't, then you might pick your races a little differently. Race one from a roll and the 4wd is not giving any advantage.

So in other words, the 13.2 awd car would win the first 400-500 feet and the 11.5 rwd car would pass it. The same with a 13.0 rwd car...

In all my years of being a Camaro owner, I never raced a 4wd car on the street. Funny considering how many DSMs there are and the fact they have been around over 10 years.

Btw, what is the fastest WSX you heard of? I saw a video of a race piece with a stroked motor and NOS running high 10's, but haven't seen a street one better than the high 12's (yet).

89blackGTA

There are just too many variables to think about. The only car that I have raced that was up there with me on the launch was a 94(I think) Toyota MR2 twin turbo AWD. He was running 13.5s and I was about a hair ahead of him on the launch. If he was built up even more I am sure he would have been ahead of me. But, thinking that a car with 300+ tq that can launch very well on the street, I dont care if the guy has AWD. I will race anyone, and if there car is faster than mine I will lose, oh well.

Brian

zerogsx

MR2s never came with AWD... You sure it wasn't a 91-93 Celica All Trac? They don't look anywhere near the same, but they had the same engines (as '95 and older US MR2 Turbos) and AWD. They were pretty rare too. 2.0 dohc I4 turbo 200hp/200tq. MR2s have mid-engine layouts, so it does help with traction and weight transfer...

89blackGTA

I know for a fact that it was an MR2, the guy just told me it was AWD. I guess he was just being a d!ck. I do remember about the mid engine. Well he did get really good traction. Is was built up some. He took me in the 1/4, but that was when my car was in the 250 temp zone. That has ben taken care of but his car is always broken when I want to run him
Thanks for letting me know. I am gonna let him know how valid his info is next time I see him.

Brian

383backinblack

just beacuse you use the same tires on the street as you do at the track doesnt mean that your 60' times are the same both places......even if the pad is asphalt......thats just not a correct assumption......if you think that traction compound has no effect on your car because you dont use slicks you are sadly mistaken......traction compound greatly improves the traction of ALL TIRES. thats how magazines like car and driver and motor trend get their numbers, they run the cars on factory tires, but they use loads of traction compound

zerotosixtyV8

that subaru was modded. If your sig is correct, that 350 HP engine should've tore that car a new one, even if he got the jump on you. True AWD launch is good, but stock these cars don't break out of the 14s.

20mm

Just thought I'd point this out. The EasyStreet WRX ran a 9.98 @ 141 mph. On street tires, with a full interior. Not bad by any standards.

Here's the breakdown of the timeslip:

60 ft 1.581
330 4.256
1/8 6.467
mph 111.55
1000 8.353
1/4 9.989
mph 141.93

And a link to the thread.

-Chad.

maroon91rs

damn its too bad that car didnt have torque to match the HP.must have one hellish of a top end pull to run a 9.9 with only a 1.5 60'.im glad this thread was brought back.i personally think its a good thread to debate and learn from.that is if thats even allowed on here anymore .

Inwo

There's nothing wrong with debate provided it stays more or less technically oriented and isn't pointless like chevy vs ford vs import vs skateboards or the like. Geez, I just gave you guys some guidelines for discussion I didn't kill your kittens

25THRSS

ONLY a 1.5 60???

20mm

ONLY a 1.5 60' Thats lighting quick. Anyway, the EasyStreet WRX has been dyno'd at 740hp and 510ft-lbs of torque at the crank. Thats with only a 50 shot of nitrous and 28psi of boost. Those kind of numbers coming from only 2.2 litres of engine should be impressive to any gearhead.

-Chad.

25THRSS

I was being sarcastic, lol

20mm

I knew you were kidding, I'm not sure maroon was though

-Chad.

383backinblack

wait and see what happens when we bolt up the big bad procharger on our alcohol injected 482 and put 28psi to it lol

maroon91rs

i wasnt kidding.i know its quick,but c'mon 1.5 on a 9.9 et?i know people runnin 1.7's if not quicker in wrx's and DSM's running atleast mid 12's.still fast tho!

25THRSS

a 1.5 on street tires in a car that has enough power to run 9's is just plain awesome!