My neighbor is building up his '94 Mustang so this is what started me thinking about this topic. For those of you who care about these things I was hoping to shed my thoughts on this long winded debate...

"Why is it that the Ford 302 a 5.0L engine outperforms the Chevy 305 so well that GM brought back the 350 5.7L to the 3rd gen line in the late 80s while Ford stayed with the 305?"

So often the debate has hovered around these issues;
The Chevy 305 was hobbled with TBI, TPI was developed for the 305 but then GM deceided to throw it on the 350 instead, the F-bodygens weigh more than the Fox Body so GM needed the larger engine to compete...

Has anyone ever thought about why the Ford 302, a 5.0L engine, is so successful? There is a phrase called "study your enemy" perhaps some of you are familiar with it.

I helped my neighbor pull the engine (he borrowed my cherry picker and stand) and Wed. night we pulled the heads and out of curiousity I measured the bore...

The 302 has a 4.00" bore which is same bore size as a Chevy 350. That led me to research some more. and here's what I found:

302 Ford
Bore 4 Stroke 3 Cylinders 8
Displacement (Cubic inches) 301.59 Displacement (Liters) 4.94
Rod Length 5.09 Rod/Stroke Ratio 1.70 Bore/Stroke Ratio 1.33
Weight (lbs) 460
Rev Limits
7,000 RPM Stock short block with cast crank
7,800 RPM Forged crank and heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect)
11,000 RPM Forged crank, rods, pistons, heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect), and studs(head & main caps)


305 Chevy
Bore 3.736 Stroke 3.48 Cylinders 8
Displacement (Cubic inches) 305.19 Displacement (Liters) 5.00
Rod Length 5.7 Rod/Stroke Ratio 1.64 Bore/Stroke Ratio 1.07
Weight (lbs) 575
Rev Limits
6,034 RPM Stock short block with cast crank
6,724 RPM Forged crank and heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect)
9,483 RPM Forged crank, rods, pistons, heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect), and studs(head & main caps)

350 Chevy
Bore 4 Stroke 3.48 Cylinders 8
Displacement (Cubic inches) 349.85 Displacement (Liters) 5.73
Rod Length 5.7 Rod/Stroke Ratio 1.64 Bore/Stroke Ratio 1.15
Weight (lbs) 575
Rev Limits
6,034 RPM Stock short block with cast crank
6,724 RPM Forged crank and heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect)
9,483 RPM Forged crank, rods, pistons, heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect), and studs(head & main caps)


Those of you that understand the relationships between bore & stroke and the Rod/Stroke ratio can realize why the 302 Ford can compete with 350 Chevy (or vice versa) and why the 305, whether stock or modified, can not outperform a similar stock or modifed 350 or 302. The way fuel is delivered into the engine TBI, CARB, TPI, etc. is not as important as the design of the block itself... Which goes back to old cliche " To build a good house you need a good foundation." To the newbies who have no idea what I'm talking about I have given you a window of insight and it's up to you to decide if you want to learn more...

This is not meant to be a 305 bashing session so don't take it that way, the numbers however do not lie and I am merely conveying them for your edification. I personally would not build a 305 for high performance use since the same money spent on a 350 will yield better results.

 

it would be interesting to inlude the chevy 327 and 302 engine, along with the ford 351.

 

Chevrolet also used has 302 with a 4.00" bore and a 3.00" stroke.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/G.../chevy302.html

It is a high revving engine that makes a lot of high rpm power but not much low end tourqe.

The Chevy 305 is a low end tourqe engine. Becouse of the smaller bore it can not use as large valves. The longer stroke gives higher piston speed at the same rpm and that limit the engine max RPM.
So air flow is limited by valve size and rpm by high piston speed.

 

Yup. GM would have saved so many headaches if they would have just brought back the 302 for a small CI motor (or any 4" bore for that matter).

My first car was a '65 Merc Comet. It had a 289 that would wind to the sky. It's basically a 302 with a 2.87" stroke. I don't know a whole lot about the motor other than that. I do know GM's answer to that motor was the paltry 283. Same small bore problem as the 305 and still only had a 3" stroke so there was nothing to make up for torque loss either.

Ford has done wonders with that motor. As much as I hate to admit it, it was sad to see it go. They're stout motors with solid basic design.

I thought Chevy was supposed to be the ones to keep it simple.

 

Yes and No The 305 and 350 have the same stroke and rod dimensions. They have the same Rod/Stoke Ratio which means they will both rev the same. The difference is that the 350 has a larger bore dimension which increases it's output (BOTH Torque and HP) over the 305s. Since they both have the same RPM potential it's better to build a 350 over 305 since the 350 will make more HP and Torque than a similar built 305.

Now a Big Block is another ballgame::::

Chrysler 440
RB Big Block
Bore 4.32 Stroke 3.75 Cylinders 8
Displacement (Cubic inches) 439.72 Displacement (Liters) 7.21
Rod Length 6.358 Rod/Stroke Ratio 1.70 Bore/Stroke Ratio 1.15
Weight (lbs) 670
Rev Limits
5,600 RPM Stock short block with cast crank
6,240 RPM Forged crank and heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect)
8,800 RPM Forged crank, rods, pistons, heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect), and studs

I've selected a Chysler big block as an example because, by design, it has some very nice features. It has large bore and although the stoke is rather short this is OK since it lends itself to a high rod/stroke ratio.

A stroker is another way to make more power:

Chevy 383 Stroker
Bore 4.03 Stroke 3.75 Cylinders 8
Displacement (Cubic inches) 382.67 Displacement (Liters) 6.27
Rod Length 6 Rod/Stroke Ratio 1.60 Bore/Stroke Ratio 1.07
Weight (lbs) 575
Rev Limits
5,600 RPM Stock short block with cast crank
6,240 RPM Forged crank and heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect)
8,800 RPM Forged crank, rods, pistons, heavy duty engine fastners(ARP, Mildon, ect), and studs(head & main caps)

 

Yes.
I was comparing the 302 and 305 with similar size.

 

Hey guys didn't all those late 80's fox body 302's also come from the factory with a forged crank, which would also give them very good potential?

 

Forged crank, forged pistons, shorty headers, 8.8 rear end. Ford knew what they were doing.

The stock 302 can handle lot's of abuse (N20, Blower, Turbo.) I know a few guys running blowers or Nitrous with stock bottom end motors. No problems at all.


I call 'em junkstangs, rustangs, etc. but if I could have bought that brand new 5.0 notchback in 1993 I would have. Coulda, shoulda, woulda, not enough cash for a new car back then so I bought my '88 TBI 305 Formula. It took me 7 years to build that car and I spent what that new Mustang was worth over that 7 year period including what I paid for my '88. But it all worked out and I eat those 'stangs for breakfast...

 

interesting argument you've got goin on here.

However if you wanna go apples to apples in the 5.0 department. gotta play it right.

the 5.0 motors in the mustangs, youv'e got all the basic details down in them. The 5.0 HO motors the mustangs got weren't a standard 5.0 they had a different camshaft, and if memory serves a different firing order than the standard 5.0 fords.

Gm had at least 3 different 5.0 motors in the thirdgens from 88-92. two of them the tbi 305 and the standard lb9 had small camshafts, restricitive exhaust manifolds and highway gears. and the TBI 305 got an even more restrictive head, and intake. With a camshaft of significantly less than 200degrees@.050 comparing those motors the the 5.0HO isn't really a comparison.

Their power outputs were in the 170-190hp range for the most part with the two economy 305's. not a fair fight at all.

if youwanna compare 5.0HO motors, use the higher output 305 that came in the 88+ manual, G92 cars. it's a much more even ball game..... apples for apples.

They were rated depending on year between 220-230hp. The same as the 5litre HO ford motors. and had roughly the same amount of torque.. 290-300lbft.

comparing the High out put chevy 305 to the 5.0HO motor is pretty evenly matched.
if you look at the motors this way they get real similar, multiport injection. camshaft around 205 degrees@.050, and much free'er flowing exhaust. although the mustang came with facotry headers... they are not much less restrictive than the bigger manifolds the dual cat thirdgens got.

The two cars ran the same model transmissions, although the input shafts, and some of the ratios were different yeat to year.

the 3.45/3.42 posi rear really works well with the 305 motor with the go fast goodies. so now it gets pretty even.

and At the track it is even as well. the 5.0HO's and the 305 ho's run the same mid14's down the track in stock form as well.

a good car and a viscious driver can push the low 14's on street tires if he's lucky, in either car with the "top of the line" 5.0 motor from either manufacturer


The bottom line is though there were far far fewer 220-230 horse 305's produced than the run of the mill lb9/lo3 with the short camshafts and tall gears.



Apoint about the old 440 chrysler motors. all the old chrysler motors save the hemi's were hampered by poorly flowing heads, which really limitied their power. extensive headwork or aftermarket heads fixes that, but the average back in the day big block mopar heads flowed less than the stuff on your SBC.

 

The part about the G92 5-speed cars verse the 5.0 Mustangs is true, until you atart to do mods. Once the mods begin, the basic foundation (bore and stroke) helps the Ford 5.0 go faster with the same parts. The 350 would be the better comparison, because who leaves a car stock.

If you had purchased an 87-88 Mustang instead of the 305 you would be amazed at how much faster you could have gone. 87-88 was the fastes years for the 5.0 fox bodies and with little work could be made to go 12s in the 1/4 (there are a quite a few articles on this). I think the 305 was a good motor for what GM intended it for, and the true performance comparison is between the 5.0 Mustang and the 350 F-bodies.

From my experience with the 305, me and my cousin have spent nearly the same amount of money on performance and he would be lucky to beat my Jeep in the 1/4 let alone my Mustang. This is just my experience though, so don't think I hate the 305, just too much work and money for me.

 

It breaks down like this. The 302 from its inception in the 60’s was developed as a performance engine. The 305 when it debuted in the mid 70’s was designed to be an economical, gas saving alternative to the bigger motors at the time. Therefore the 302 was built stronger with more of an “eye towards performance” and will respond to mods better than the 305.

Now, that being said, that doesn’t mean the 305 is a bad motor, or that a 305 5spd thirdgen can’t beat a 5.0 stang. The intent behind developing the R6P or G92 performance package for the 305 TPI 5spd, was to make it more competitive with LX 5.0 Mustangs. That’s why the horsepower and torque numbers are the same. Of course the reduced weight of the Mustang gives it an edge. So stock for stock, a Stang might have a 2-3 tenths advantage over a 305 Formula or Z and a 350 Formula or Z will run just about even with it.

Here’s an “average” comparison:
305 TPI 5spd..14.7-15.0
350 TPI auto…14.4-14.7
302 HO 5spd..14.4-14.7

 

Thanx, was wondering what my new 383 was for liters, getting custom "6.3L Tuned Port Injection" Stickers made now for on the ground effects under the emblem Will be my only give away for my new sleeper.

 

I have a problem with," the 302 ford will compete with a 350 chevy", it won't ,period. Not unless your idea of "compete " is in a lighter vehicle. Chevy had a 302 before ford and it also had a 4in bore and 3 in stroke and it wouldn't compete with a 350 either. There is nothing magical about a ford 302 but it did account well for itself mainly by being installed in a light vehicle. The only fair comparsion would be the ford 302 to the chevy 302 and neither would stand a chance against a chevy 350 with the same perf. equiptment every thing else being equal. Anyone disagree with that?

 

There's no replacement for displacement. That's why the Mustang guys love stepping up to 351's.

 

Nope, there's a reason the 350 Chevy is the most popular and used performance engine of all time. It's really the best overall ever. This topic is like a repost of the things I've been saying on here for a while now about the engines. Some people should know although, that all being stock, the 302 Chevy could beat BBC 396 SS's back in the day and the M*****g's top cars too. They did not tell the truth about the Z28's power or its capabilities. They were incredibly deceptive special performance engines. But still we know, if you are to build any, the 350 is the way to go.

 

6000 RPM "rev-limit" for a stock bottom end 350? You're kidding right? Where did you find this crap? 11000 on any piston motor, built or not, is also just as ridiculous!

 

Around here the 5.0 Mustang is the car to fear. They run 10's and can look pretty much stock. I don't see many 5.7 SBC's running much faster than 13's. Hell, this one guy has a 5.0 Mustang stroked to 347 that runs 9's on the motor. Does the 350 have the same revving capabilities as that? And could it beat the numbers they put up too?

I mean I'm seriously wondering this. Is it possible to get a 3rd Gen to compete with those numbers with a 350? I don't see many running outside of 13's even with 350's and was wondering if there is a reason. I seriously want a car that could run 11's, and I want to know if I could do it with a 3rd Gen and a 350 or if it'd be easier with a 5.0 Mustang. thanks in advance guys.

 

U can do it, theres a guy in the next town over from me with an Black 89 IrocZ that looks plain, but runs 9's. No idea on mods but have seen his slips, only dead give away on him is if the T's are out u can see his role cage.

I met him in a race wile on the way through his town, he obliterated me. So i pulled into McDonalds behind him to see what the heck he was running, as i have never lost so badly in my life.

 

Interesting topic you guys got going here.

The 302 either for or chevy does have a higher rev capibility, less mass to move. The problem here is not RPM but power output per revolution. Whats better a 302 that can rev to 8k and make 400hp or a 350 that make 400hp at 6k. The trick with street racing is not RPM, thats a pure **** thinking, its power per revolution. Hell you can rev a GEO to 7K but it not fast is it. The tq numbers are at least 100ftp difference in a 400 hp 350 compared to a 302 with 400hp. As Nick said mustang owners like to upgrade to a 351 a stock 351 wont run as well as a stock HO302 but it does give them a larger platform to work with to push the tq numbers up. When you build a street engine of any make the goal is to make as much power as possible at lower rpm and gear up to match. Ive got a very mild engine in my car that pulls to 6k and I have no problems with mustangs or any other cars for that matter of course there are always sleppers that run real quick but not many street driven ones.

 

BillZ28, I would have to say that in your case a 5.0 Mustang would be better. With forged internals and the capablities to go well into the 11s before breaking things it is a great base to make a fast street car from. If you want hendeling there is no beating a thirdgen, but for the straight line, the 5.0 Mustang is a much better platform. Not only is the potential there, but it is cheaper than the F-bodies to mod and there are so many to choose from.

It is true that a 302 making that power at 8000 RPM will make much less torque than a 350 making it at 6000 RPM, but the majority of street cars are making power between 5500-6500 which helps the low end torque. The truth is there is no replacement for displacement because when you go all out on the two motors (302 and 350) the 350 will end up making more power, but the fact remains that for where most if not all of us will end up as far as power, neither of the two is much better.

 

thats interesting, indy v8's make peak power around 18,000rpm......winston cup engines run at about 9,000 all day long, and pro stock drag cars rev past 10,000.

there are lots of engines that can rev like that, most of which are far from street machinery but its possible none the less.....and if it is your intention to build a real high revving motor its not that difficult to do.

 

Those numbers are so insane.

But I was talking about SBC's in general. It just seems like there are a whole lot more small block Ford's running in the 10's and 11's here than the chevy crowd. Maybe it's just where I am. The best I can think of is a Chevelle with a 383 that runs 9's.

And also there's a mechanic with the 347 stroker that has over a .700 inch lift cam, I'm not sure I've seen lift numbers like that for a SBC cam, but then again, maybe they aren't in the Summit Racing catalog.

 

Winston Cup cars usually blow up around 9 grand. Just listen to the announcers, "Holy sheeeat, he's topping 9000 RPMs". They barely last one race. The Pro Stock motors, run 10000 RPM for about 1.5-2 seconds. And as far as Indy motors:
http://www.indyracingleague.com/cars/engine.php

18000RPM - you smoking something?

And those engines cost nearly $100,000 dollars!


To those who talk about never seeing a 350 in a 3rd gen running really quick times - people don't generally build these cars for drag use. Most Chevrolet guys run the old school muscle cars. Ford really has but one drag car, the late model Mustang. For every fast SBF I can show you an even faster SBC - just not in a 3rd gen.

 

"Most Chevrolet guys run the old school muscle cars. Ford really has but one drag car, the late model Mustang. For every fast SBF I can show you an even faster SBC - just not in a 3rd gen.'

Yup.

And Third Gens right now are kinda rare in drag car form, they're not really "of age" yet.

 

Well i was jsut comparing apples to apples as far as displacement.

the 305 will respond well to mods, but it's pickier as to what it responds too, than a 302 or a 350 for that matter.

But overall the 302 is the better of the lil cube motors. of the 5 litres.

 

regulations are regulations, but apparently you havent read some of the technical literature about the new chevy indy v8.....and the older indy engines revved alot higher than that as well but did have reliability problems. which was a big reason for the push to 3.5 liters, with a shorter stroke to reduce piston speed.

where the rev limiter is set on those engines has nothing to do with what they are capable of, its a race sanctioning body attempting to control engine revolutions.

im looking for the article right now, i read a spec someplace that had the chevy indy v8 pushing over 14000rpm. i'll post it up here when i find it

 

Reliability problems... Rev limiter to prevent the over-revving of the engines because of safety issues... I bet I could rev any SBC stock bottom end (with proper valvetrain) to 15000 RPM. But do you think I could do it a second time? Who cares

 

9,000 RPM is not too much for a racing small block be it chevy or Ford. Back in the day, yes, that was way too much, but with better springs and lighter valves it's not a big deal. Also I think everyone here will agree that the bottom end of an engine rarely ever is the speed limiter.

20k RPM is attainable in a reciprocating engine. Cosworth was doing that at least 10 years ago with F1. Since they've gotten out of that Ferrari, BMW, and everyone else with millions of dollars to spend as been able to duplicate that. F1 cars shift at 17 or 18 thousand rpms.

If indy v8s are spinning that high, then it's just a "see what we can do" kind of thing. It's not practical, much like a racing Honda. I know a guy who used to build Aurora V8s and they never tested outside of the rev limiter, becaue that is just wasted money. Green is king in racing.

High engine speeds are desirable in smaller displacement engines, because you can run 5.14 or higher rear differentials. That results in a higher torque multiplication which is now making the same tire force as a torquey V8. Remember that kinetic energy is also stored in rotating masses. A 2.0L SOHC spinning at 12k rpm has enough energy in it to pull the front wheels on a street stock pinto for the first 60 ft.

For high speeds power is king. Transmissions can only control the acceleration of a vehicle. Power coming into any transmission is equal to power coming out, assuming no losses.

Coming onto a Chevy board to talk up a Ford takes some huge ***** my friend. Most people here will never admitt that a Ford is better whether it is or not because they are fans.

If you want to start disecting the dimensions of the two engines and get into the bore spacing, port spacing, valve size, etc. you can go on all day. Here are three big rules for selecting short blocks.
1. Piston force is pressure times piston area. So, the bigger the area(bore) the more piston force you can make.
2. Crank torque is piston force times the crank stroke( lots of stuff assumed here, but the principle is right). Bigger stroke = more torque.
3. Power is torque x RPM / 5252. The more torque you can make at a higher RPM, the faster you'll go.

That's my way too long rant.

 

I Didn't say it was better I was merely showing the differences and similarities between the three small blocks. What you should have realized is that the 302 Ford and 350 Chevy perform because they both have a 4.00" bore and that a 305 Chevy has a smaller bore that hinders it's performance.

If I had to chose a small block Chevy engine to build for hi-performance use it would be a 350.

 

I didn't mean that as a dig. It was more of a complement than anything. I'm a huge Ford fan, but it's just easier and cheaper to race Chevy's.

The baddest Small block ever produced was the 351 cleveland, if you want to get into that. As for Ford not having any platforms other than the Fox mustang. There's the Torino, Cougar, Thunderbird, Pinto, Falcon, Thunderbolt, and the list goes on. As to why you don't see many of these on the road refer to my previous statement.

Let the flamming begin!

 

I beg to differ...

I'd have to place my money on the Windsor. How many cleaveland powered cars are running 6.40's @ 220+?

 

I don't know where around here is but I'll tell you what around here Mustangs and ford in general are far from feared!!! Around here Jersey all the BIG DOGS are chevy mainly the small block chevy! I myself have a 3rd gen that has a small block and runs tens and can be driven anywhere.....So if I were you I would stick to the chevy drivetrain! Also someone stated that ford is cheaper to mod is 350s are everywhere and everybody caters to them.........Chevy 350 is to the Ford 9" you just can't beat em'!!!!

Also there is so many 3rd gens running low low numbers around here it's crazy granted there is a few mustangs too But we know how reliable they are!

 

1QWIKZ, is there a place where I can check out what your mods are?

 

the theory about running power down low and gearing to match is just that theory


I myself like to make a revy motor with the gearing to match it

but then again I think I have been driving a rotary far too long

low end torque to me doesn't mean a lot, with the driving I do I need mid range and high rpm power

 

1QWIKZ, I really bag to differ. I know of MANY street driven 10 second Mustangs in Jersey alone. Pic up any Mustang mag and check out the cars.

As far as fuel injected motors go, there is no beating the cheap speed a 5.0 gives you. Try buying a good intake for a TPI for $300- $500, that will allow you to run 10s without touching it. Sure you can run a carbed 350, but try running fuel injection and tell me who has it cheaper.

All I can say is the only 3rd gens at the track I have seen have been, one low 13 second S/Ced 305 (I haven't seen it but I will let it count) one 14.8 second L98 I raced, and a guy with a carbed 350 running mid 15s. Where I come from there are almost NO feared 3rd gens and even the older 2nd gens are nothing special. I belong to a Mustang club with a soon to be 8 second Drag Radial car and MANY 9-12 second Mustangs that are steet driven and showed.

And don't talk about reliability! How many 9-11 second 3rd gens do you know that can run those numbers every weekend and then drive to work on monday! Unless you live in a part of town that noone knows of, I am guessing not many!

Ask ANYONE there are SO MANY more Mustangs running from 9-12 seconds than there are 3rd gens. Look we have FFW, NMRA, MHRA and *** knows how many small time Late Model Mustang organizations there are. How many Late Model F-body organizations are there each with many classes ranging from 6 second cars to 14 second brackets?

 

goddamn sam adams.....

i was drunk last night when i was replying to this thread.....

i MEANT f1 engines were revving that high not the indy car ones......geez, no more drunk posting for me....

although they have revved those indy motors up to the sky as well.

the stuff that ATOmonkey was talking about was the information that i was drawing in, albeit not very well due to my left over intoxication from earlier that night

hehe

 

:rockon: drunkenness :rockon:

 

That may be, but the ports on a cleveland head are big enough to house a small mexican family (no offense). I know that if anyone ran the cleveland head it was the 2bbl version, because the 4 bbl was too big for most street engines. Besides, I know of several Cleveland engines running almost 200 mph on America's ovals. It'd be 220+ if they didn't restrict them.

 

lmao!!!

stock for stock, the cleaveland is far better than the windsor, but once you throw in the aftermarket, the windsor leaves the cleaveland way behind. The cleaveland, however, is the best sounding motor ever made.

 

right on :lala:

 

Oh boy it's you again!

Anyway like I said before throw on of these mustangs my way from Jersey that you speak of and I'll have someone tape it and we'll find someone to host it for everyones entertainment OK!!

Then you'll see a fast 3rd gen!

Also in this thread the first camaro has been known to frequent the streets not as much as before cause it has been modified a little more lol https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=155294

 

As ATO monkey said. You are comparing apples to oranges. The Ford cylinder head was way better compared to the chevy design(conventional). The valve angle was dramatically different.They have symmetrical port allignment. Ford did it's homework with the 302 in the mudstain! They combined a long runner manifold on top of a high revving small block. Yes it limits the powerband, however it gave the Ford the little extra tourqe down low to compete with the grunt of the 305's and 350's. Then when the TPI ran outta breath the 302 revved past them. Evidence of this is the shoebox type upgrade for the 5.0, on a stock motor you'll lose 15-20 lb. ft. down low, but pickup usuable rpms, move the tourqe peak higher thus creating more HP
.
I don't know how many times I've seen a TPI F-body wipe the floor with a Mustang for the 1st 1/8 mile only to be caught at the end. Chevy finally got there act together on the LS1 and changed the head design as well as lowering the valve angle.

The argument about Indy engines is a mute point. The new engines are 45* V8's the older were 60* V8's. In the future you wil see passenger cars coming with 60* V8 engines(like the 6 cylinders). They won't make as much tourqe, but it will be easier on parts,the packaging will be dramatically smaller crating new and creative designs, and HP numbers will be up(the average consumer doesn't care or know exactly what tourqe does for them). That's why you always here commercials touting HP numbers not tourqe.

I think a proper comparison of the two automobiles would be a TPI equipped 327 v/s the Ford 5.0. As long as we are comparing and trying to make things equal(which really you cant but for arguments sake). The extra .25 stroke is a tradeoff for the weight advantage the Mustang has. A 327 with 6in. rods will still be limited in it's powerband, but should provide a very flat tourqe curve and a higher peak making it able to produce HP at a higher level than the 4500rpms that the TPI is at stock levels.

I've spent too much money over the years, which is why I finally switched to a better mod friendly platform.

To each there own, but this is a really good thread that manged to be bring people together to discuss the engines without having to wear a flame suit

 

why is it that the vast majority of competition v8's in the drag racing world are based on chevy designs?

because they are just easier, cheaper, and more responsive to modification....which means a 3-way win. COst is almost never a factor in higher level racing, all that matters is performance....and still the chevy designs dominate.

you could argue that this just because there are so many more of them, but once again when you start reaching into the upper echelons of racing price and availability becomes a non-factor.

Even in the monster truck racing world where I do alot of work with the towasaurus/bigshot team, the vast majority are using chevy-based motors....the only guys that really use ford stuff are the bigfoot guys....and thats because ford gives them anything they want (and as much cash as they can swallow) Many of these engines are donovan chevys, and the guys that dont use these type of motors are using hemis (dodge based)

the only guys your gonna see with ford stuff (at least the only competitive ones) are the bigfoot team.

this is paralleled in most upper crust drag racing as well.

the point is that claiming the design of the ford motor is far better is a false assumption....everything is dependant on the combination of parts chosen in the engines.

If anything, by looking at higher level professional racing the opposite is true due to the prevalence of every other manufacturers designs except for ford. Professional racing provides an excellent scope to find answers on many questions. these teams dont have the restrictions of the every-man....they use the best of the best, in order to obtain the best results....therefore the trends you see there (minus regulatory stipulations) will usually reveal what the best route is

sorry this was so long, just trying to provide another perspective....and for the obvious rebuttle....its not just big blocks.....youd be surprised at the number of small block based applications that are around in these areas

 

I still want to know where all the mid 6 second small block chevy's are?

 

They are in Jersey Nic!!!

 

1QWIKZ, How about you look up Dwayne Gutridge! He lives in New Jersey! His little LX runs high 9s! Not too bad right, but wait, he does this on 17" Drag Radials. On some better 15" DRs, he goes in the 8s!

If this pic shows, look at how it launches on 17" radial tires!

 

Bob Reiger does he use a twin turbo small block? I can't remember I know Tony christensen uses or used a big block nitrous motor(chevy based), Pat Musi(chevy based). There prolly a ****load more.

383 does have a point. Most of the hardcore racers use chevy based products(or Hemi). I don't see to many Ford FE(I think that was the best BB Ford has) based engines running. But this is goinf far off the price scale associated with a production based engine.............................

 

I don't believe that I've ever seen a ford motor in that category...


5.0Mustang if that car is launching on a true radial then that is impressive but what is his combo cid? Also does he drive it everywhere? If it goes 8's I don't think he drives it on a regular basis, but hey I might be wrong also where in Jersey is he located cause I have never heard nor seen this car.

 

hmm...did someone mention Big Daddy?



8.47 @ 167.2 on BFG drag radials...hailing out of Toms River, NJ

360 cubic inches, 76mm turbo, 3100 lbs, and 325/50/15 drag radials on a stock style rear suspension.

http://stangcrazy.com/dragradial/rules/nmra/index.htm

 

So how close are you to Tom's River?

And don't worry, there are many more fast Mustangs in New Jersey!

Thanks for the vital info Nic!