OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys, not too familiar with the rotarys at all really, so if you are let me know what you think of this.

Was talkin' to 2 guys at a stoplight who wanted to meet up later and race me in a mazda rx7, they seemed cool so we met up, chatted, checked out each others rides.

He has an 88 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II 5-spd with an 89 13BT engine JDM turbo dropped in, some decent nitto tires from what i saw, and average miles on the car itself, 150K or so.
You can get all the details on my car at the url below, basically an 89 350 with a variety of bolt-ons.

SO we drove to a nice secluded 2 lane road. Ran them 2x with the same result which I'll post after i get some feedback. I'd like to hear what you'd think he'd do in the 1/4, possible hp he has or how the race might've gone, etc. So what do y'all think?

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Just tell us who won

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

hah, patience!

87irocz350

I would think that he got you. Those turbo cars are really anything to roll your eyes at. And when they have nice mods..well..yea. Anyway, I say he raped you.

rjmcgee

But see, now we can't believe the results of the race because your memory may be persuaded by people saying that he ripped your car a new one.

muchwhitesmoke

a jdm turbo of what year from what car or size?
what about exhuast?
stock with the 2 cats or upgraded
with these cars changing the exhuast can make a big effect partly due to exhuast design on the rotary and partly because it is a turbo
and the intake system?
did he still have the stock type box filter setup
or did he change it out with a cone filter and change the turbo inlect ducting?


any other mods?


in PURE stock form an 89-91 rx7 sholud net you about a high 14 low 15 avg


but your description makes me wonder

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

My guess is that you killed him off the line and he slowly caught back up but by the time he did the race was over and you covered to much distance to safely race any farther. I saw you win. Now from a roll I think he would edge you out.

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Feel free to state your thoughts and comments, that's the point of this thread. I have no need to lie on my behalf, I know my car isn't as fast as many others are out there, I'm just trying to guage what his car should be running in comparison to mine and to what he told me, instead of just laying out some race that "will" happen and never giving a conclusion, or simply stating I won or lost to so and so.

Best details I can remember about the car:

90 13BT engine, 89 JDM turbo - both from out of mazdas i'm guessing seeing that the car was an 88, and he and his friends owned a few of them.
modified manifold and throttle body,
stock exhaust - had two outlets, guessing stock dual. Suspension, fuel system and air filter setup stock, ducting seemed to be modified a bit though.

He said stock it was 14.9, and gave me a 1/4 time after his mods, that he got on one run only (said it overheated and couldnt go anymore after that) which I'll reveal with the race results. Hope that info helps those who know about these cars, because the engine/turbo type are over my head.

Btw, his passenger caught it on tape and i'll see about obtaining a copy.

Nitrous Al

You put two car lengths on him at the start, but he pulled ahead on the top end? He ripped you a new one? The police broke it up before you got started. No offense dude, but just tell us the results. No one swaps a motor in for just 2 more hp. JDM would lose customers if that turbo only made 10 more hp than stock. What happened?

rjmcgee

This is getting boring.

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

You're right, go read the exhilarating thread about the LG4 beating the cavalier, maybe that's more your style.
I don't recall asking for meaningless comments, let alone 2 from you. Just relax and read along if you don't have any real input, thanks.




Good points and guesses from 87iroc, Shifty and Nitrous. I emailed rx7speed and would like his input as well. Results soon!

muchwhitesmoke

this is rx7speed
just over at a friends house and too lazy to log into my own account
but if i must I guess I will
hang on

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

i had only sent a link to this thread to get your input.

rx7speed

JDM isn't a company
it stands for Japanese domestic market
mainly it means grabbing something that really is only a japan market item

kinda like the civic type r motor
there isn't a type r civic here but you can get the motor from a JDM supply place

as for the motor swap
the stock 87-88 turbo motor is about 183hp
the 88-91 is about 200hp
the 87-88 is the series 4(s4)
while the 89-91 a series 5 (s5)
both are second gen rx7's though

but the s5 turbo is a little more efficient as far as how it works
also it has a dual wastegate which helps the problems that a lot of problems of boost creep with the single port small wastegate when you add an exhuast


also the s5 motor should be better suited to making better power without opening the motor

lighter rotating mass
higher compression 9:1 vs 8.5:1
more port timing and area
as well as a few other options

rx7speed

the exhuast setup is a single exhuast pipe that spits into two by means of a y pipe
but I find it hard to believe he still has the two cats on there
most people if swapping the motor get at least a downpipe
as far as the modded intake manifold whats mods did he do?
port it a little
by a modded TB I assume you mean he took the second set of butterfly's off that way the turbo spools a little quicker
as far as the ducting that alone could net up to two pounds more boost
but when using it you need to get a FCD (fuel cut defender) since the stock system cuts fuel at a little above 8 lbs of boost


but I give you the win
unless he has the FCD as well as downpipe and maybe a few other things done

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

i didn't check for the cats, it was just dual outlet then, no idea what he did to the manifold or TB, I'm just repeating what I heard.


so how fast would you say he'd be with what i've described? 1/4 that is.

thanks for all the great turbo info, i feel slightly more illuminated on the topic.

rx7speed

well anything from high 14's down to maybe a low 14

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

I'm gonna give this one to you as well. Now post some results!

rx7speed

just wanted to chip in though with a turbo car your mods are very vague

that is why there is such a difference between times

and with a rotary the changing exhuast is even more of a gain
but lets put it this way
there have been known cases where on a rotary motor changing out the exhuast (getting rid of the cats and putting a decent catback on there) can give up to 20+hp
also changing the intake ducting depending on what is done can easily gain about 10hp
as far as the modified manifold
intake or exhuast
either one might make a little gain
but one more so then the other
the TB porting would give better gains then removing the aux set of butterfly blades
what if he has a boost controller?
you wouldn't see it and if you did just listing that wouldn't give much help unless you know what boost he was set at
sorry but 8psi vs 15 psi would give quite the difference on times
and 15 psi on the stock turbo with some other supporting mods like larger injectors and fuel pump, TID, exhuast could put you well on your way into the 13's even


again these are not mods done one after another
but mods done to a pure stock motor as the only mod




so please since you can't give very good listing of his mods just post the results
since with what you have said puts a good spread on what he might be able to run

so either post the results or if you want to carry on with this childish thing of guess at least get a REAL list of his mods including what psi his boost is set at and everything else done to the car or it is pointless and just wasting our time and pissing some mods off

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

My bad guys, was going to finish this up last night, totally forgot. Thanks again for the info Rx7, but it's kinda tough to get complete specs on a car when you don't really know what to ask in the first place. So I apologize for any lack of info.

So here's the deal and as to why I'm confused. Both runs he was completely left in the dust/fog. He has some traction problems I'd say, or my DR's really helped, not sure, probably both.

As always, the torque pushed me way ahead, maybe 6-7 car lengths the first run, but I didn't see him gaining really. We went up to maybe 90-95+mph? before the road turns to 1 again and he was waaaay behind me, hard to tell at night how far. The 2nd run was exactly the same except he had a better launch and did gain a little bit more in 1-2 he said, but still ended up 7-10 car lengths behind me before braking.

The thing is, before racing, I told him I've got a low 14 sec car as of a couple weeks ago, and he said he ran 1x and got a 13.5 mid Oct. Also mentioning that he gives Ls1s a hard time. And I know I'm not giving any Ls1 a hard time. But I said what the hell, let's burn some gas anyways. I'm sure as said, from a roll or possibly on the freeway he'd be much quicker, but he didn't make any excuses which surprised me, he didn't complain about his car at all really except for some traction, and was more impressed with mine and thought I had tricked him by saying it was a low 14'r. So that is why I was kind of puzzled with the results and wanted to hear some feedback before spilling it. I sent one of the guys an email and he said he'd let me know when the vid is available, they are working on an rx7 site. So hopefully that will include better details on his car as well.

So thanks for reading and continue on with any comments or what not.

Coqpit

nice kill, I got into a similar prediciment the other night... I raced a 95-96 mustang cobra, on nitrous from a stop and on the highway. I figured i was going to get toasted, but exactly the opposite happened.... maybe the kid couldn't drive but he sprayed when we were on the highway and I still walked him. Made me feel pretty good though

Dave

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

I think I'd feel ecstatic if I walked a 95 cobra on nitrous considering they are 240hp to start. Big difference though between that and a 96 which has over 300hp factory.

My race was just hard to guage because I don't know enough about many imports and how fast he really was or how fast my car is for that matter. I was just going by what he told me. But I guess the driver and knowing your car does make the difference sometimes.

Damon

Good kill!

My one and only race with a Turbo II Rx-7 was years ago. Went at it from a highway roll. At the time I was driving a 79 Malibu with a junkyard 400 motor that went, I recall, high 13s at maybe 102 or so. Punching from a 70 MPH roll I walked right away from him- killer torque and all. By 100 MPH he was not falling back any more and would have eventually overtaken me, but I let out at 110-120 or so (plenty fast in an old beat-up Malibu) and claimed victory.

I have no idea if the other guy was modded or not. Certainly he had aftermarket exhaust but beyond that I have no idea.

anymethod

I raced a turbo II 89 RX-7 in april of '01. I went 16.457 at 82mph, he went 14.385 at 100.2 with just full exhaust. I had him to 60' though Nice looking/quick little cars. They have my respect.

~Matt

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Well I'm definitely giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was in the 13's, just curious as to how I beat him so badly.
I think I need to spend some more time at the track next season as I'm still new to it and it seems my car is capable of much better. Street racing sometimes just gives you a different perspective.

On a side note, we were talking about 3rd gens, his passenger had had an 89 v6 in the past and a friend with a tpi vette, and the driver said he liked them too, and was one of the reasons he had the rx7 with the look of the pop-up headlights and sleek look slightly resembling the 'birds.
Always good to race and talk to cool folks instead of sore losers.

rx7speed

just wish I could find this one picture someone did of my car
they turned it into a mix of bird and camary

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Weeks later. ..

Not the best quality and it's short, but you get the idea. A clip of the 2nd run, where he did a little better, but not much.

Right click and make sure to save as a
.WMV file. Enjoy.

'89 GTA vs. '89 Turbo II RX7

tpivette89

that was great hearing the guys in the RX7 saying "14s my ***" when you were pulling on them

FbodTrek

I thought he said "he's kikin my ****"?????? lol Why the hell is he making a run w/ a passenger??????? That makes quite a difference-both in acceleeration AND video quality

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Haha, yah, he's sayin' "14 seconds my ***" .

He did say when he sent me it, that he found that his waste gate control arm came off, so he probably wasn't boosting correctly. So maybe that's why I ran away with it.

I did think about him having a passenger too, but it was damn cold outside, and it is kinda cool to see it up close instead of the race getting farther and farther away.
I doubt his 150lbs made that much of a diff.
I've got my darn spare tire/jack and a 10' sub in the back!

kairles

iTrader: (2)

I raced a newer rx7 like a 94 or so the bigger ones it was a turbo because when he passed me on the street I could hear the blow off valve we raced on the freeway I guess he thought I wanted to race him because I was gaining on him fast(on the freeway entrance) we went under a over pass and I heard him downshift so I floored it we started at about 60mph with him about two car lenths on me we got up to 130 and I was about one car lenth back but we ran into traffic I think I could of passed him

rubbermanZ28

Nice win man, i love when people can get videos of there races. Did your buddy ride with him and tape it or did he give you a tape or what? nice kill man 14 seconds my *** HAHAH i was rolling!

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

It was his buddy who taped it and was riding passenger, I didn't even know they had a vid camera till we were there and lined up. As soon as I saw it I thought ohhh crap, I'm going to end up on the internet getting spanked by an import and that these guys must take people out here a lot and tape them getting whooped so they can put it on their website.

We exchanged emails, because I said I wanted a copy, and he sent me one quickie video. And sure enough he does have a website he's making that will show off all his wins and losses. They were cool, not often you meet good losers for whatever reason they lost.

I hope to get longer, better clips from him later when he has time.

rx7speed

I will say that is kinda impressive

the rx7 does very well at freeway races with the powerband it has and aerodynamics as well

rx7speed

hey nothing wrong with losing to an import


but do you know if the guy is part of rx7club.com or teamfc3s.org

if so can you get his username if you don't mind?

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

no i didn't ask what clubs he was affiliated with, nor did he ask me, didn't matter.

do you want to give him tips on what to do when we rematch? heh.

he said he blew up his engine last week, but it should be rebuilt by spring, so i told him i'll give him a chance for payback. which i'm sure he'll take full advantage of and come hard.

84'Camaroboy

i have a really good buddy who has a turbo II rx7 and me and my other friend who prouldy own 3rd gens. have never lost to him...he always says hes going to sell his car because it torqless!....i knew they didnt have much torque to begin with but he keeps tellin me that ya can get up to 1000 hp out of a 7.....but at the same time nowhere near the torque... is this really true?

rx7speed

these car's are not made for low end torque rated at the motor

the cars are made to make power up high so with use of gearing can actually get a good torque number at the wheels

now I know a lot of dynos might only show that you are making 320lbs/ft at the wheels but that is taking into relation the speed of the rollers vs the speed of the motor to eliminate gearing and give you a rated power that the motor makes minus drivetrain losses



as far as torque vs hp

I have a local friend here who was boosting 15psi on a t60 I think
fully stock internals but made around 380hp and 350lbs/ft
don't know the rpms though

but they are fairly close

another guy I know of over in japan had one making almost 550hp and close to around 535 lbs/ft
a lot of times though though torque is going to be a little lower then hp but usually not much


as far as 1000hp yes it can be done and has been done
for the most part though those are full out race cars. though I do know of a few 700-800hp street rx7's


but don't expect everyone to agree with me on this hp thing
a lot of ppl here live by the torque wins races hp sells cars

but if you really want me to get into things rating a motor by it's hp is going to give you a better idea as to what the motor can do rather then torque.... but again this is the motor power not power at the wheels that I am talking about and I don't mean what the dyno tells you put out at the wheels since they factor in gearing to give you what your motor really produces

what the dyno says you put out isn't what you are really putting to the wheels



but 84 camaro boy what mods do you have to your car?

84'Camaroboy

check my sig. thanks for the input!

TransAm12sec

Hey it was my first race. Give me some credit.

Did you have any traction problems?

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Haha, sorry dude, was just trying to make a point.

did i have any traction problems? not really. i have the BFG drag radials on and hooked instantly. i think the main reason i did so well was being able to grab and go with my low end power and put as much space between us as possible at the get go.

rx7speed

yeah and put bleach/oil on the ground and have a top fuel car launch and he would get better traction then a 2nd gen rx7


well ok they are not that bad but they are wheelhop prone and with the IRS/4ws it can be a little bit of a pain and more often then not a slip is better then a dump