Thirdgenners:

After work tonight I decided to race my co workers Civic equiped with a V-Tec and Manual Transmissions (no mods). Lost both times by about 2 car lengths (maybe a 1/8 mile). I expected to lose but I was hoping it would have been a little closer. I think V-Tecs run low 15's right? I want to race him again soon. What should I do to make it little closer? I can't really afford any mods right now. I'm alittle strapped for cash. Any Advice?

DD

'92 RS
305 L03
700R4 Auto
K&N filter

 

Race from a stop, and practice launching. Take out your spare tire and any tools next time, and uncap your exhaust. If you don't go any quicker, you'll at least sound meaner.

Laters.

 

What do you mean "uncap your exhaust?"

DD

 

try the ultimate tbi mods their free and like blackbird said shed as much weight as you can.

 

Was the civic an Si? Because that's the only way I could see you losing. Try racing from a stop, the lo3 may not be a powerhouse but it should be able to dominate a stock civic off the line. You out torque him like crazy!

 

Ya if it was an Ex civic, even with a five speed you should have nailed him good as the EX got a single overhead cam v-tech engine good for about 127hp at the crank. My rs, that is pretty much stock (chip from tbichips.com and a k&n don't really count as mods, just treats for the car), and i waste em from a stop and roll pretty regularly. I drove my roommates '00 EX auto yesterday and while they feel very quick, that is about it, they FEEL quick. An SI though, is unfortunatly, a differant story for us L03 owners.

 

Ya, its a DX.

So... Your all saying I should have smoked him? What am I doing wrong?


DD

 

Go to the TBI forum for some tips. Someone should be able to help you. Save up your money and put a 350 on your wish list for Santa.

 

either he can drive well and you cant. or your gonna have to do some cheap mods. for about 100.00 you can get a shift kit that would help alot. new air filter replace your tranny fluid oil oil filter basic stuff. take out all your weight like was said. take some air out of your tires it will help you launch

 

What advice can you give me for being a better driver? Can someone list out the fundementals of launching, auto shifting, ect?

DD

 

its probably not the best for the car but u can put on the brake rev it until u feel the tires wil break loose if u rev any higher and let it go. dont spin hard off the line. manual shift it (not often). and rev to about 4500 to 5000 then shift.

 

I would first put the money into a good tune up because a Dx is even slower than an Ex and for you to lose to either means there are some issues. Do a good full tune up, (cap, rotor, wires, plugs, oil and filter, fuel filter, check the timing, change your coolent, check your belts, check out your U-joints, check and/or change your tranny fluid and filter, and check your egr shyte) then run him again. You shouldn't have a problem with em unless there has been some decent work done to the civic. Then start going for the mods.

 

Bump up your timing...When it starts to ping, back it off about 2 deg. If you're worried about detonation, Run alittle higher octane. Inflate your front tires to max psi and let the rear tires down a bit. Sounds like you're spinning too much off the line, roll your foot in the accelerator, try not to let the tires break loose at all. Shift manually starting at first, as you feel the power(torque) fall off, bump to second and Just BEFORE the power falls off, pop it into Drive. NEVER "stomp" the accelerator....Roll it, let the torque pull you, when you stop feeling it, he's gaining on you. a VTEC should be no match for you (prelude VTECS excluded...unfortunately)

 

Thanx for everyones responses so far. But one quick question Fbodtrek, What is bumping up your timing and what does it do?

I think I'm gonna wait for a sunny dry day and take a freind out to one of my race spots with a stop watch and work on my launching.

 

Oh and as far as Octane, that shouldn't be an issue, I always run 93 and most of the time pun 5-10% Xylene in it (not for power, because as we all know, octane booster doesn't do it) but to help clean out my motor a bit (124000 miles)

 

The 93 isn't doing ANYTYHING for power. The only reason it should be used is A: if you're running high compression (10:1+ and even then you can run regular with the proper timing...) B: if you're running a blower/turbo C: If you're spraying. Bumping the timing is Advancing it, more advancement can help you or hurt you, One way it could hurt is causing premature detonation (BAAAD). It could help you though, when the timing is Advanced, it delivers the spark to the cylinder sooner, you want it to detonate Just right to develop the most power. As far as preference, depends on what your car likes....If I were you I'd take it to the local Tuner and tell them to tune it for Dragging, they SHOULD know what to do. Don't try advancing it yourself if you don't know what you're doing, you would prolly skrew somthing up. Good luk, and don't let the Hondas get you down...

 

I don't think his Civic is stock. What year did the Civic get the B18A motor? Smells like a B18 motor swap.

 

Its a very weird run...

One guy at work said that it had exhaust, intake, intake manifold, and a clutch.

Other guy said everything was stock to give it a 'sleeper' look and it actually had twin turbos

Of course, the driver said it was stock

Regardless, I'm gonna do some more looking into it.

DD

 

Yeah it had to have some work done to it, because my friend's mom has a stock 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, with a 2.2 liter OHC engine, and we can absolutely murder even B18's off the line, but if the guy is claiming it is just a stock DX, then you should have handed his a** to him tremendously, unless like everyone else said, it was an SI, but I still think you could take him off the line.

 

This is an underhood picture of a Civic with a naturally aspirated VTEC motor swapped in.

 

This is an underhood pic of a Civic with a VTEC motor swapped in with a turbocharger. Look at both pics and try to find out with motor he has in his car. Stock on the outside and modded on the inside. It's good you didn't run him for money.

 

sell it, your car has problems

 

Remember, "how fast you want to go depends on how much money you have to spend" (and to a more importantly WHERE and WHAT you spend it on), but with free mods and what you have to work with (no cash), overcomming a 2 car deficit is going to be tough, especially if you've run a couple of times and it's been similair on both runs.
Ya, ripping all the weight you possibly can out of the car may help (get some wait off the front and more to the back), tire pressure, launch, advanced timing, and shifting (although manually shifting that 700R4 is for cheeseballs) are things you should work on. Have you gutted the air box??
Things like these can help, you might make up a car or two, but is it enough to be ahead?? Tough call.

 

Well, since you said it was a "co-worker" you raced, I imagine you do have some source of income, but if I remember my high school days correctly, the term "income" you should used with caution.

First things, you said you have a K&N element. Is that just a stock replacement or an open element? I suggest you dump the stock air filter housing and go with an open element. $45 tops.

2.) Do a good tune up on your ride. MSD wires or some of those Accel 800+, AC Delco Rapid fire plugs gapped at .045, MSD blaster coil and a new cap and rotor. $100 tops for all of this and it could even be less if you go with some Bosch wires.

3.) As suggested, bump up your timing. (OR HAVE SOMEONE HELP YOU WHO'S DONE IT BEFORE) There's a certain wire you have to unplug before you do it, so the computer won't make adjustments counter-acting your work. There's an article on advancing the timing in the tech articles. Most of our TBI's like about 6 - 8* of advance. FREE

After all of this, there is absolutely NO REASON why you should lose to DX's and EX's. Hell, I'm surprised you lost to begin with.

And as for the practicing your launching with a buddy, forget about it. A stop watch is not accurate at all for that kind of measurements. Simple powerbrake while in Drive to about 3000 rpms and release the brake pedal when it's time to go.

 

Thanks for all your responses guys. I work later tonight and I'm gonna look more into the 'stock or not stock.' Thanks for all the advice on upgrades for a poor guy With Christmas, and a few car repairs that need to get done, its a bit tight lately.

DD

 

I wouldn't say its for cheeseballs, BUT I can see what you mean. Automatic don't ALWAYS take advantage of the powercurve . My v6 has an INCREDIBLY short first gear (like starting in 2nd). Manually shifting is the only way I can grab that Higher RPM power (if thats what its even called in a six....) Don't just assume that the auto is doing its job unless it's fresh or has a shiftkit.

 

I talked to one of his friends (another co-worker) and apparently it has a Si Motor He did say that it is stock from the factory, is this right? Did the DX's ever come with the Civic Si motor? If so, is the 2 car length loss about right or what?

DD

 

What year in this Civic we are talkin' about? Weren't "DX" models available, like b/n '87-'92 Civic's?? If I am correct the DX model was the base Civic and did not include the Si motor.....

 

That would be crap, pure and simple crap. The DX never came with anything more than the current models 115hp 1.7 liter non vtech motor. from the early 90's on up to like 01 they got a whopping 106hp. No options, not dealer specials, nothin. Its either a motor swap, a badging swap, bone stock, or a modded stock engine.

 

I talked to my coworker today. I guess I violated the first rule of street racing, 'Know your enemy.' I was told by a few others that it was a DX but it's actually a Si. I did enjoy the discussion here though, When it gets a little nicer out I'll work on some of the free mods listed to help out a bit.

...But anyways, back to racing.... I lost by about 2-2 1/2 car lengths at about almost 1/8 mile. Is this about right? Should it be a touch closer?

DD

 

This is a pic of a '00 Civic Si. The owner told me it's a 1.6 four cylinder, but I know it's a 1.8L DOHC VTEC motor (B18). Does your coworker's car have this motor or something else with a "smaller valve cover"? When you look under the hood, look between the motor and the grille, at the exhaust manifold. You'll be able to tell if he's running a stock manifold or tubular header and/or turbo. Import guys love to tell people they beat a V8 car in a drag race. You got to beat this guy!!!

If you apply this same knowledge, he won't be able to tell the difference between your stock 305 or a nasty 383. If he beat you by only about two cars, it's time to figure out your combo so you can beat him in the spring. I don't know if the L31 Vortec heads can help you, but you can pick up a pair for around $520. Post a message in the TBI forum about increasing the TBI's horsepower and torque.

 

I forgot to attach the pic.

 

How To Launch

Its actually incredibly simple. (feel free to skip my little intro but im just putting it in to give you an idea of what im saying)

You ever notice when driving your car how at one speed, you'll floor it but wont go to fast or it will take your car awhile to really start moving, while at other speeds you floor it and your car is just instantly at full power and you just zoom on? Its all about what RPM's your at.

I'll use my escort for example ... at 2k if i floor it it goes but takes awhile to get moving. now if i wind the motor up to 3k and let it go it kicks back and shoots off... well shoots off for an escort

Heres how to launch (if im wrong somewhere feel free to correct me anyone)

Im assuming you have an auto sooooo

1. put it in first gear
2. hold the brake with one foot and use the other for gas like your about to do a burnout.
3. this is where you load the converter... hold the brake and rev to about 1900 or so... im not sure with tbi but id say thats a good rpm?
4. when its time to go release brake and mash gas

 

Great info, but he has to identify the motor in the car he's racing. His co-worker might have a BMW V12 motor in that thing...LOL and DeathDealer doesn't know it. No offense, DeathDealer.

 

 

Hopefully he's not racing Stephan Papadakis' mid 6 second, 200 plus mph Civic.

 

Well since you said your car is stock. First you need to take full advantage of all the power your setup can produce. I'll assume your car is dog crap off the line since a stock honda dusted your butt. Lemme guess you can be crusing in 3rd 30MPH floor it and it goes like no other??????? High on your list of mods should be a drop in V6 3:42 differential. This will allow your to use the power you have down low where you need it. A high numericaly low gear set like your stock (2:73's, 90%) or 3:08's is nice for crusing down the interstate a low RPM's but thats about all. So for a couple hundred bucks and an afternoon you can improve your acceleration from GEO metro to what it should be, **** planting tire burning. Exhuast works quite well too, but id focus on gears first, A dual snorkle induction setup will pull almost as much air as an open eliment but has the advantage of being cooler then the engine compartment air. Ive seen it broken down as far as for every 10* drop in temp is 1hp.

 

death dealer...

a little help for you to first determine what the model of the car is... when you see it next..look at the brakes... if it is 4 wheel disc..welcome to the world of si/sir as well look for a stb (strut tower brace) and if thats the case with your stock tbi..you aint got a chance in hell to win, but if it has drums on it..take a peek on the inside...does he have any power options? (windows locks) cuz NO dxs got power options...it was noted that these were the botton end of honda civics so thats that..

as for you winning...depending on the car is what is gonna have to be done...

si/sir get a bigger block, that motor just aint gonna cut it... ex or dx or even cx.. do the free mods and do what the others have said (tune up and such) and you shouldnt have a problem...

or..get one of the guys from this board to come and race...and then..watch his face when he cries hehhe

iroc2nv

 

the best vtec anything runs mid 15s. civic = mid 16s. tune your car up and run from a dig, you should destroy him. if that doesn't work, 100 shot

 

Sorry dude, the Civic SI comes with 1.6 LITER ENGINE. The pic you show here is a 1.6L because I can tell from the intake manifold. They are mid 15 sec cars around 87 bone stock. The best I could ring out of mine bone stock was a 15.701 @ 88.93. In most cases I was around 15.85. No DOHC motors are mid 16 secs, the civic EX also a 1.6L SOHC is a solid (lol) mid 16 sec car. Yes all civics are slow blah blah blah. I know I know I know.

 

Thanks for the info, NewGuy00.