Ravenshorn

Hey all. I might be kinda vague here for my first post since I'm tired and going to bed soon...but. My bro has a 90 Eagle Talon TSI (AWD DoHC Turbo). His timing belt went and Poof toast engine. We now have the new one in and He is bragging about taking me. With mods, say he's running about 240 hp..not at the wheels. Now there is my car 92 Firebird Formula WS6. 305 TPI. I've got the thing pretty modded..I need another chip now to continue to mod...so say i'm at near 230 RWHP...I should be near that. Anyway, we argue back and forth alot, he says it won't take him more than a manual boost controller boost to 15 PSI from 10 stock, Larger Lower and Upper intercooler piping, Turbo back exhaust with header style manifold Dual stage boost controller and...I think that's it. He states that those mods will put him at around 300 hp and that he'll spank me. Can anyone lend any advice or tips...Thanks all

x_wolf

I still think it'll take him more tuning and money then he is thinking then just slapping those parts on and calling it good. We can do that to our cars, but they usually (at least from what I've read) gotta tune stuff quite a bit to get it runnin right. RXspeed I think your name was, you got good info on this stuff!!

cheers

ryans

My buddy has a 90 plymoth laser turbo which is basically the same car. That car will probably take you either way they are lighter and come stock(turbo) with 200 to 220 horsepower.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

What exactly are your mods?

x_wolf

and stock those cars (dsm's) run a low 15 sec or high 14 sec. I've driven both cars, and Id have to say the bird definately gets up and goes. Watching the speedos, it seems like it gains speed quicker too.

I don't know all hes done to the bird but he has some intake mods done, full 3 inch exhaust with heddman headders. He can tell ya more. Its said on birds of his year had really really restrictive stock exhaust manifolds, and quite a bit of HP can be given by changing that.

cheers

Inwo

If he can drive at all and you have not a whole lot done to your car he'll easily take you....IF he can drive and knows how to shift. Judging by his mods I'd say that he probably has read all the primers on how to gain max performance out of one of them so this one might go to him. I say race him and find out.

IROCaholic

What are your exact mods? I had a 93 GST eclipse and that sucker was quick. Stock it ran low 15's and after I upgraded the intercooler, chip, cold air intake, full exhaust with no cat from downpipe back, and a boost bypass mod ( manual boost controller) that added like 3 psi to the turbo and I ran low 14's all day. If I would have been able to get any traction I probably could have broke into the 13's and that was with front wheel drive. With all wheel drive I would have definetly broke 13's with those mods. If he bumps the turbo up like he says and upgrades the intercooler and exhuast your pretty much toast unless you have a ton of mods. Good Luck.

x_wolf

I hate those little cars. I have no doubt that car can be fast. The thing is the boy doesn't have a job, doesn't know how to drive hard, and as far as im concerned wouldn't know the first thing about how to hook up a new intercooler (or afford it) or anything else. I have seen a couple of these things blow too, and without a whole lotta miles. He'll get it fast, get tired of it and eventually want a bird (which he wants anyway ) I think he only got that thing cause a friend of ours did. I could be wrong, but his whole family is muscle car lovers, so is he.

just my thoughts on the situation. I still think the bird is quite a bit faster then it should be.

edit: he says he'll run low 13s no problem. I have my doubts.

Beyond this conversation, your car is still prettier and worth more

cheers

Ravenshorn

hey guys, sorry for taking so long to post. Ok My mods are as follows.

Exhaust. Headers (1 5/8" primaries w/3" collector), 2 1/2" Y-pipe, no Cat 3" to HighFlow muffler dual 2 1/2" outlet.

I have Stock internals on a 305 TPI with I think rated 210 hp(stock) and 285lbs of torque. I've added an Air Foil Diverter, and 170degree Thermostat, opened my cowl hood, Have K&N Filter, Hypertech chip (I didn't put it in, was in the car when I bought it) and unsure of its actual benefit if any. P245 45ZR16 Tires with WS6 Suspension...The car handles beautifully. Now I know what a lot of people say about the 305's, but for some reason this car gets up and GOES like no other 305 or smaller I've ever been in. And I still haven't changed my rear gears, or added all the other things I want to add...which I could do soon. I've also orderd a Steering brace (wonder bar), and will be making a cold air system soon. THe can has a running temp of almost exactly 170 degrees (I love dual fan setup) and it still shifts hard on a stock (as far as I know) th700R4. NOW a Tech from Pontiac Performance told me (and this could be wrong but its what I was told) that The Header back exhaust alone has had dyno results of 35 to 40 HP gain on the 305's and somewhere near 25 lbs of torque. Then say add 5 for the filter and 5 for the chip (could be wrong) and I don't know what else for the much cooler running temp and ambient engine bay temp. So....I think thats it guys. Thanks for the info and I hope this helps.

Ravenshorn

Also, I know those DSM's can be very fast, and I like e'm more than most of those type of cars...but my impression is its not just those mods stated above that gets you the performance, you have to be able to TUNE your car just right, and if you are wrong at all with the boost amount then your WOT fuel mixture would be way off and mess a lot of things up. Again, I don't know enouph about it all to say any of that for fact, its just my view that those cars need to be tuned excessively to gain that performance.

Thanks

x_wolf

seeing as that the "kid" (heheh) that owns the talon is a friend, I am going to take back soem things that were rudely said. I sohuldn't have called him kid or been rude about things. I apologize buddy, no excuses i know you'll forgive me but still, it wasn't right, and I apologize.

that was just my inherant V8s rule, all imports suck (and its not really an import...its made here in the US which is kinda funny) and I get kinda defensive!

cheers ya'll

Ravenshorn

My first post here, but I'm not Ravenshorn. This is his brother, who owns the '90 TSi. I'm currently waiting for my activation to post under my own handle.

First off, I'll start by saying my brother's '92 'Bird can haul some *****, and I think she's a beautiful car; perfomance and otherwise.

To my understanding, as I helped him with his modifications, he has a 3" header back exhaust with no cat (removeable straight pipe), headman headers, and an airfoil airflow diverter (which, I admit, proved to be worth its minimal price), and a K&N filter off the intake. He's also got a 170 degree thermostat. I havn't noticed any difference in perfomance with that, but then I'm rarely in his car.

Now, on to my car. I own a 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD. A year and a month ago the timing slipped, and the 4g63 motor (the motor in all turbocharged DSM's) is interference. I'm currently in the process of putting a JDM longblock in her place, with 30k miles on her.

First generation DSM's (Mitsubishi Eclipses, Eagle Talons, and Plymouth Lasers, years 1990 - 1994) produce 195-200 ponies and 200-205 torque on the turbocharged 4g63 platform, which mine is. Now, the only current modification on my car is a simple K&N air filter, which was on the vehicle when my parents purchaged the car for me.

I live a ways from town, and public transportation doesn't come out this way. I couldn't find work until I got a car, and so when my folks came into some money, they got me my talon. Unfortunately, the motor died before I'd even had 2k miles on her, and I was still in my senior year of high school.

Anyway, back on topic. I believe the purpose of this thread was to guess which car would win in a hypotheticle street or drag race, from a stop.

My brothers firebird as is, or my car with hard intercooler piping, both lower and upper, a full 3' or 2.5" turboback exhaust with removeable test pipe, EVO III exhaust manifold, hard intake pipe, manual boost controller set to 14-15 PSI, and, of course, a boost guage. The stock unit is incredibly inaccurate.

Now, a definate answer won't be known until we both have an actual chance to race eachother, and I'll leave speculation (as If I could stop it) open to anyone who thinks they might know.

Okay. Long post, no? Well, X-Wolf, a friend of mine in real life, posted a few things which set me off. And I have a few things to say to him.

X-Wolf, I don't care if you hate my car. I don't care if you hate all 4-cylinder cars. And I don't care if your opinion is entirely oposite of mine. But when you start to refer to me as 'kid', and 'that boy', and belittle me in such ways as claiming I couldn't figure out how to fit a FMIC on to my own vehicle, of which I've pulled both front axles, the drive train, the spent motor, and just tonight finished putting the old transmission and transfer case on to the new JDM motor, I'm naturally going to get a pinch... paturbed.

No, I don't have a job. That's soon to change for reasons previously covered. Hate on my car all you want, but don't chalk yourself up onto some pedestal and call me, your 19 year old friend, 'kid'.

By the way, tomarrow I'm pulling out my SMIC and cleaning it out.

I hope I can figure out which way it goes back on.

EDIT: Forgot to address a few things I initially decided too. I got my Talon before I even knew about DSM (Diamond Star Motors, the joint venture between Mitsubishi and Chrysler that built all first generation DSMs) was, and had no idea it was related to my other friends Second Generation Eclipse. I got it 'cause it's drop dead sexy, turbocharged, manual, and all wheel drive. And I won't be getting rid of it for a Firebird. She's mine until I blow her up.

x_wolf

deserved every word of it I like your car matt.

I just have an issue with poeple that think they are be all end all, and not listening to other opinions bugs me too. But thats ok, we over that.

I always said if I were to build an import (or domestic import) it would be a DSM, cheap to make fast (don't now how hard they are to tune though) to a point.

Sorry buddy for my rude remarks (again) and I won't be stupid anymore. We'll just do what was meant to be done with our cars. have fun!


cheers buddy (for when you get your name on the board )

:lala:

Ravenshorn

Yep, see y'next weekend when both our cars are runnin'.

Ravenshorn

This is the Real Ravenshorn now...hope my bro gets his tag soon.

Lol Nice guys, glad that's all cleared up. I wasn't on here to rag on my brothers car, I just wanted an honest look at the two vehicles to see what I can expect and what I should do for my vehicle to get it performing where I want. I still say my car accellerates much faster than most people say 305 tpi's do. My friend is testimony to that...we both are in agreement that My car would take his dad's 350 LT1 94 Firebird...don't know if that means much, but Mine seems to accelerate faster.

Cheers

Inwo

I was under the assumption that all those mods were already on the car, in its current condition I believe the race would be pretty even. Don't underestimate the stock computer on the DSM, even without an S-AFC people have been running low 13s high 12s with those very mods. I guess it's the luck of the draw and driving skill though. There's a guy who does all the mods that TMO used to do for $300 cheaper all but eliminating the need for an S-AFC, I'm sure those concerned already know of Jeff O so I'll just stop rambling here.

Ravenshorn

Hmm Well based on stock numbers, I've been under the impression that his car vs mine were pretty equal stock for stock, with his car winning more often. With my mods vs his car stock I KNOW I would take him. When his mods are done however...then probably not, but I'm still not sure...but I don't think you could call it an even race him stock vs my car. Just wouldn't make sence...at least not to me

IROCaholic

Right now your in the high 14's, your brother since his car is stock is in the low 15's so youll most likely beat him now, but with those mods and his car in tune he will smoke you pretty bad. Also the computer in those cars is pretty forgiving I had a friend running an upgraded turbo and every bolt on you could imagine and he never had any ecm problems it ran high 12's. Also for the brother if your going to run that much boost you might want to look into a new oil cooler thats how I fried the first engine I had in my eclipse. Also I am a hard core American muscle guy and I couldnt pass up my eclipse because it was a great deal and I needed a car with good gas mileage becuase of my job location. Those cars really look good for **** cars, and it doesnt take much to make them run like a bat outa hell. Its to bad mine got cought in a flood, I would buy another one if I had the money and I could find a good deal. But my first love and priority will always be my Camaro.

F-Body Tim

i say get: new torque converter, 355 gears, ~2400 stall, shift kit, new posi from SLP.

that may cost money but you will get one of the best bang for the $$$, besides N2O.

Ravenshorn

Sweet thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I"m thinking of going to 3.42 gears and getting a new differential from SLP...we'll see how that goes though. I'm not sure about that stall speed though, or new converter..I mean I want to retain Street driveablitiy....Thanks though for the info

F-Body Tim

it will still be very streetable with a ~2400 stall... just uses more gas,, the stock converter sucks and the new one would do the most good, performance wise.

x_wolf

quite a few people I've talked to say gears will give you more then a stall converter. Plus you make gobs of torque down low with TPI so why make it higher up in the RPM range? Just what I would think.

F-Body Tim

i didn't even think about the looooooooooow end torque.

i was saying what helpes a lot with 4th gens. oh well. LOOKS LIKE YOUR ONLY OPTION LEFT IS N2O.:rockon: :rockon:

Ravenshorn

Ya, well I'm going to upgrade my suspention with some mods, get new rear gearing, New rear end, rebuilt Tranny, Might leave the converter alone or get a better one...but I make torque and low end...I do'nt know if a higher converter stall speed will lose that torque. Also I just read on teamthirdgen where a guy there ran a 12.99 With a 305 LB9 TPI with the flat tappet cam...My setup is already better than that one...stock for stock. If I copy his mods I see no reason why I wouldn't run a sweet time. I will probably get a new cam, Siamese my runners or get SLP ones....port my plenum...I think that I could very well take my bro with my mods. Again, I'm serious when I say my car moves much faster than most people give the 305 credit for.....Just my 2 cents

Thanks