if this does happend then people should now start upgrading to LS6 engines..


maybe this could be a solution ?

 

another story from the WRX boys forumm

 

FIREHAWK.... won....

 

another apperant loss for a Z28

 

Umm do we live in the same world. LS1s and LS6s are NOT unbeatable, and with todays technology, lots of small motored cars are beating lots of big motored cars, thats life!

There are 10 second street driven 4cyls out there, and if your thinking a 2.0 cant beat a stock LS1, Id be willing to bet some of the timeslips we could dig up would blow your mind! Time to accept the fact anything can be fast today!

Hell there are 11 second daily driven diesel trucks!

 

another "defeat" from the all might WRX STI

 

where are these diesel trucks! maybe I can get their engine and put it in my car

 

I don't know how many times I have to post this up, but I hope you, and other people like you pay attention this time.

Here is the site:
http://www.shepracing.com/

And here are some of the videos:
http://www.shepracing.com/videos/shep1.mpeg
http://www.shepracing.com/videos/871.wmv <----You ever see an AWD almost lose it into a wall from such a hard launch?
http://www.shepracing.com/videos/shep876.avi
http://www.shepracing.com/videos/shep886.avi


I'm pretty sure that his motor isn't even bored out either.

 

There are a ton of Sti's in my area of Socal, I'm bummed, none of them every try and pick on me.

 

My buddies street legal, daily driven, 95-GSX runs in the high 10's. You're right, nowadays, anything can run that fast with today's technology.

Quite a few years back it would have been unheard of to see 9 second, daily driven, street legal car's. Times are changing, indeed!

 

i believe it has become common sense that power adders always compensate for small CID you guys are somewhat praising these 2.0 l 4 bangers for beating stock ls1s (that DONT have power adders) and thats not the full case...

take those turbos out and they are complete DOGS all of them...without the turbos they arent ANYTHING compared to the LS1 platform...turbos depending on the psi being run which is usually pretty high in r1cers increase the displacement equivalency...theres a formula for figuring this i cant remember it...but basically like a 134 cu motor running 20 psi = 388 cu in motor...just an example not accurate but it was something like that...

if you really want to see power watch a wrx sti running 30 PSI get destroyed by an Ls1 running a turbo on 15 psi

check out gale banks website to learn more about how this equation works a 350 V8 running 30 PSI boost it will have the equivalency to 1050 CID and put out 1500 hp...lets see your WRX beat that

Enlightenment

people seem to forget the fact that these cars that can beat stock or slightly modded Ls1s are more than just modded 4 bangers or V6s they all have power adders and motor/block alone

 

i didnt read this ENTIRE thread... but i think people might have left out that the STI's are 6 speed turbo's with AWD..

what makes them bite, is the AWD.. just like the typhoons and Syclones..thats what gave them the advantage..

my neighbor here in Utah has 2 STI's an 03 and an 05.. i have been with him to Wendover during auto cross events and such.

stock hp rating is 300hp.. he has since add 3.5 inch full exhaust, suspension, computer tuning and intake done.. it neted him a 12.24, on R compound tires, when he brought it down to fontana a month ago.. i was there, witnessed the run.. and also seen the timeslip when he came back in the pits..


i dont know why people think the LS1 and LS6 are the "end-all-be-all motor".. now if the camaro's and corvettes had the AWD.. i think things would be different.

 

It's just a matter of time.

 

Oh boy, here we go with the whining because they have forced induction. In that case, you can whine that the LS1s have bigger motors, with better flowing heads, better cams, better inatkes, etc... It is NEVER a 100% fair comparison, so your going to have to deal with that. Who cares if they use forced induction to go fast, in no way is that wrong, or cgeating, or anything. Its another way to make power. The 03 Cobras have power adders, thats how they go fast, yet the 01 Cobras motor was nearly as stout as the LS1s... Its not compensation, its merely an efficient way to make a lot of power.

Anyone who loses respect for a car because it "needs" a power adder, isnt a car person in my book, but just someone looking to whine about another car being faster. Grow up and realize, all cars today are going fast!

 

I just posted videos of an 8 second Eclipse that can be driven everyday with a full interior and full glass, I don't know what else I can do here. Here is a video of a 9 second Evo. I personally can't see this video, but I'm sure some of you can.

http://www.dy-nasty.com/dump/AL1.mpg

 

Oh, no Stu, I saw the clips. Very nice. Did he use a sequential transmission, or were those shifts just super-fast? I'm happy with a 13-second car, but I wouldn't sy no to twelves...

 

If by sequential you mean the ones where you just pull the lever down, I don't think so, but who knows, he does build custom transmissions for a living.

 

nobody is whining about anything im just pointing out that congrats a wrx can hang if not beat a stock ls1 but after you do the math no kidding it can beat an ls1 but you cant sit there and say that a 4 banger is beating an ls1 its a turbo charged 4 banger and there IS a difference

if you have a power adder good for you no one says your cheating or what ever else...but dont sit there and pronounce how much better your motor is compared to an Ls1 or Ls2....bc without the power adder you wouldnt be anything end of story

the 01 cobra was close in comparison to the Ls1s numbers but its a COBRA fords elite (which should be better than reg TA and Z28s competing with corvettes) but fords 4.6L couldnt stand up to the powerful platform of the Ls1 so they had to supercharge to get the extra power....screw the whole what if statements...wish gm would have answered back but they didnt what can you do

sucks for 05 gt owners bc they still cant hang with ls1s stock vs stock

 

Supras have better motors!!!

 

i believe i heard stock tt supras only run 13.5-14 sec 1/4s on the ls1tech boards maybe wrong

subtract the twin turbos and they might have a problem with ls1s

 

yeah Showbo is the guy that posted that story and he is a bit cocky but mainly just joking around. you all dont know him very well, so are not free to judge him. he may seem like a cocky punk, but really isnt.

anyway, WRX and STI motors are fine motors. very responsive to tuning and bolt ons. wrx's can easily be made stage 2 and have bolt ons to go low low 13'. after that it takes some upgraded turbos and alot more boost to go faster

STI's with stage 2 ecu reflashes can go high 12's and upgraded turbos can go 10's. just adds more booost to run faster. very impressive cars. AWD does suck some hp out of them but they launch and Handle extremely well to become a very solid all around car. nice package deal.

LS series motors are one of the greatest motors produced. probly the best NA mod for mod motor out there, along with the 5.0 ford stang motor. very impressive indeed but they can be beaten. although it doesnt always happen and you dont always here about, it can.LOL most mild cam/head work LS1's are fast enough to take out most cars, but not by far unbeatable. i praise them as much as most people but know they can be beaten


and the mach I/99-01 cobra motors are dead even with the LS1. they can produce good numbers. and it doesnt take all that much to produce the power of a LS1 out of the 4.6 motors. just some bolt ons and tuning and its possible to see 300-350hp. not bad from 281 inches as apposed to 346inches of the LS1

 

thank you for reinterating my point but once again bolt ons and tuning aside stock vs stock the 4.6 cant handle the LS1 and i dont know for sure what it was that was done diff to the cobras on the 4.6 bc the GTs get beat (usually badly) by ls1s stock and they have the same motor correct? so the cobra 4.6 already came modded no?

 

The first 4.6's were real dogs. A kid from my area has a vortech on his 96 GT and still cant see the 13's.... There is only a handfull of wrx's in my area. They are way too expensive for most of the younger crowd here. There was one for sale at the local dealership for $18000. It was an 02 WRX with 27k miles. Thats just too much money for what you get. The cardboard thin doors and cheapo interior looks like crap. Sure the STI is very fast, but for that money, ($35000) it should be. You gotta pay to play. An early LS1 F-body with mods is still cheaper than most wrx's and looks much better..... Winter driving is a different story......

 

I don't understand why this is so hard for people like you to understand. Ford didn't have to do anything, that's just what they decided to do.

 

Agreed - maybe they just felt that it wasn't needed. They didn't make a motor that could keep up with the LS1 (in quantity anyway), and guess which pony car platform died?

One video clip I've seen shows a Mustang guy with Nitrous and a supercharger, and the Corvette owner says "Typical Ford racing - you need two power adders to catch a GM vehicle..."

 

Sounds like something a sore loser would say.

 

Not as per John Coletti; Coletti was once interviewed, in reference to the 2003 Cobra... and admitted that Fords Special Vehicle team dedicated a great deal of time to a naturally aspirated 400 horsepower Cobra, and they fell short. Not to mention that whatever power they were able to achieve, didn't give them the performance kick that they were looking for.

It is at this point where he talks about how the Lighting has proved itself... time and time again, the power levels that it was able to achieve being blown. Coletti ended the interview by saying (in reference to placing the supercharger on the Cobra), "Why fool around"...

 

...and take away the turbo on my beloved TTA/GN motor and they're DOGS.

When you build a motor specifically for a power adder and take said power adder away OF COURSE it's gonna be a dog

 

Again you show your ignorance....the '05 GT's are mid 13's with a decent driver...which is what "a lot" of LS1's run with a decent driver.....

 

Alright you guys are beating a dead horse. There is no replacement for displacement. Period. I don't care how stupid sounding and old school that phrase is, it is the truth. A bigger motor will always make more power than a smaller motor when modded equaly. Automakers boost cars to give them a fun factor and water cooler bragging rights. They also do it to take advantage of smaller displacement motors with the power of a larger motor. This isn't rocket science. In addtion, auto makers do not just slap on a power adder to make up a lack of projected power. An engine that comes boosted from the factory is desinged as such. Every part of the motor is designed around the fact that it will be running with boost. Power adders allow any motor to make monster power. Motors now a days have great heads, and intakes which allow them to make big power when boosted. Older motors have older technology. They have the displcement advantage on their side but they are plagued with crappy parts. That is why a boosted stock 305 would still get worked by a boosted WRX. Get rid of those crappy parts and you have a different outcome. Any power defficiency can be solved with money and displacement.

 

There's something that has to be said about engine design also.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining my point though because this thread sucks.