SR-71

I think this is the right forum for this....

Just talkin' the other day with my son-in-law (a Camaro guy) after he had driven my Formula a few times.

He speculated that with a set of slicks, on the strip it just might "lift a wheel," as he put it.

I said, "Yeah, maybe. If the T5 didn't turn into a grenade." I'm not planning to change my rear gear from the 3.08, so I kinda doubt it. I'm building for the road, after all, not the strip. Strip is for test and tune only, for me.

So, just wondering--
My present build "should be" making around 450 ft-lbs. now, and "should" go up to 530 or so with a head upgrade. (All power guesstimate disclaimers to fend of bragging accusations apply. It hasn't been on the strip yet, since this motor went in.)
Assuming I switch to a race-built automatic (which is in my plans), how much torque and/or what gearing does it take to make a third-gen lift one or both front wheels, even if just an inch or so?

Like I said, just wondering. I'm not making that a goal.

MrDude_1

is the goal to 60ft or to do a wheelie?

you can setup any car to wheelie... if you tried hard enough, a 305 TBI could do it...

as a by-product of 60ft-ing........it varies.


you only have a 3.08 gear with a T5 in wat im assuming is a full weight street car..
even if you had the most badass 350 out there, your car is just going to bog if you dead hook.
get some gear.

25thmustang

Ive seen cars with 225 rwhp weighing 3000 lbs yank the front tires. The car 60's better when they stay on the ground, but it will do it every track pass!

87TPI350KID

60ft > yanking the tires. Most cars that "wheelie" are setup right. The correct kind of launch make the rear come up and shoot strait out, not up.

SR-71

The "goal" is a mile-eater that cruises at interstate speeds with zero effort, passes slower traffic like a motorcycle, and will spank the occasional Mustang or rice-boy poseur. With decent gas mileage, interior quiet, and long-ride comfort. What Car Craft magazine called an "ultimate daily driver" several issues back. So far, it's coming along just great and according to plan.

So, for that goal, 60' is definitely more important. If it ET's in the 12's, I'm happy.

The 3.08 posi is gonna stay as-is (the "mile-eater" requirement. "Get some gear" is not an option for my goals.). The T5 is goin' bye-bye, replaced by a built 700-R4, 'cuz I'm pretty sure the motor will blow it one day. Plus then my wife will be able to drive it, if needed. So 1st gear will definitely be lower. And yeah, it's full-weight. Curbs about 3100.

Badass 350? It's a 400! Thus the torque it's making with a relatively mild cam.

Since this is the "bench racing" forum, I figured this was just the place to do some speculating. I really could care less if it will lift the front. Just wondering what it takes to do that.

MrDude_1

the real problem with a car like yours is that the two goals require two diffrent setups..
that handling mile eater will have nice stiff springs and tight shocks to control them.
that wheel jerking sixtyfooter wants loose front shocks and tall softer front springs to transfer weight..
obviously, you'll be changing tires at the track too...

because of the setup the only options are either swapping parts/setups, having very adjustible components, or comprimising one for the other...


as for the gears.....get a six speed (dont want a manual? get a six speed auto.) THAT would be ideal, because then you can put some decent gear behind it.
without gear, you could have a big block, its still not going to accelerate well...

(edit:
gear meaning in a T5 car..... if you have a auto with enough stall, gear matters very little)

SR-71

This is exactly the information I was wondering about. The "theory" behind doing such stuff. And yeah, it's got all the original WS6 suspension, with poly bushings, boxed controls, and Sensa-Trac struts/shocks. An excellent compromise between ride and handling. But not much in the weight transfer and front lift department.
Oh, it accelerates quite well. I definitely believe it'll run mid-12's if I can get it to hook sufficiently.

But now we're getting down to something I am definitely interested in. Transmission choice. I'm definitely going to an auto, to handle the torque of my motor, and so my wife can drive it on long trips if I get tired. (She's left handed, and her driver's ed instructor way-back-when let her get away with left-foot braking. Now she can't even begin to coordinate a clutch!)

I've considered the 200-4R, 'cuz it's got a little higher top gear, without the extra-low first gear. Rejected it because it costs about twice the bucks to make it handle the torque, compared to a 700-R4.

But I've been looking and looking for alternatives-- 5 or 6 speed autos-- with exactly zero results. I'm definitely open to suggestions that won't require a second job. (Time for a post in the transmission forum!)

MrDude_1

the only GM 6spd overdrive transmissions at this point will almost require a second job... lol.

largest problem is the tuning/PCM issue... i can make it work for ME... but its not a bolt in and go solution like most people need/want... its a pain at the moment.
----------
get slicks, and unbolt the front swaybar at the track.. (or at the very least, unbolt one of the endlinks)

then see where you are.

87LS

I would say get a 12bolt...put in 3.23's you can still puts the highway..
Put in a Built TH400 with a 4000 stall, and you will for sure Pull the front.
Of course with slick..or AWESOME DR

CrazyBear

yeah get some 3.23's maybe even 3.42s for more acceleration. Then get a built th350 or maybe a 400 with nice sized stall like a 3000 or so. And if you want to pop the wheels up for fun ive heard that taking the front sway bar off can help this happen.

87TPI350KID

Tpi 406 with 4.11's and a drag slick.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

NO need to go TPI, the TBI will do it just as easily.

MrDude_1

TPI would choke the crap out of a 400SBC.
the only way TPI is a good idea with a 400 and alot of gear is if you're building a rock crawler. lol.

yea... TBI can suck just as easily too.....

comon, you KNOW how much effort you have to put into modding a TBI setup to work with a high hp car... why go thru that effort?

theres literally 100s of easier EFI intakes/hardware and about a dozen EFI controllers that are reasonable... from factory GM to megasquirt style homebrew to aftermarket setups....

ChillPhatCat

You doing this all on a stock rear? If you hook with a built 400 SBC with the stock rear I'll give you a number of passes equal to or less than the number of fingers on my left hand before it's scattered all over the track.

Nic

a stock '02 GT on 15" bfg drag radials...oh wait...that's not what you were asking

5678TA

i'm looking for the same thing.. i just installed 90/10 struts, moroso trick springs, and LCA relocation brackets.. i could only manage a 1.81 60ft before those mods.. that was spinning the 275/50-15 MT ET radials pretty hard.. hoping to pull at least a 1.60 60ft

SR-71

I dunno. I'm pretty happy with my TBI setup on my 400. Not exactly a rock crawler, but I did go for torque over horses. Check my sig (original post above), and you can see it's not really hard to make power with TBI. Despite what the nay-sayers claim. Even limited to 5500 rpm red line, the car's a rocket. And I'm bettin' on easy 12's come spring. If I can get'er to hook, that is.

Yes, I'm sure. But as I said above, I was just curious, since this is the "Theoretical" forum. I really don't care if it will lift the front. I've hit it hard more times than you've got fingers, and the rear is pretty healthy. Now... about the T5, though....

cali92RS

If the info in your sig is current you have a Comp Cam XE256H (212/218 @ 0.050, 256/262 adv., .449"/.456" lift), in your 400...
Just for my information, that cam is extremely tiny for 350, let alone a 400, why did you stick that in the motor?