So, I decide it's about time for an oil change. It's been about 3000 kms. I wake up and while walking to the garage I get this feeling believe it or not that something bad is going to happen today and I should stay at home. I swear to ***, no bull****, it was like spider sense, but I go anyway.

I pull up, ask for an oil change. So the mechanic drives my car, stalls it once. Then puts it on the hoist really fast and I can tell he obviously wasn't use to the power of my car.

He does the oil change, then pops the hood and starts pumping in new oil. All is done, and he tells _ME_ to reach in and start the car. So I reach in, put one foot on the clutch, push the key forward and let go of the clutch.

ALL OF A SUDDEN THE CAR JUMPS RIGHT OFF THE ****ING HOIST! I reached in and quickly tried to press the clutch and brake. I stopped right in the nick of time. From inside, I thought "holy ****, my car is probably totaled". I saw it hit their tire balancing machine. I was SOOOO pissed off you wouldn't believe it. How the mechanic had the nerve to leave the car in first gear and didn't put the hand brake on!!! And then told me to reach in and start the car casually. For ****s sake!!!!

After about 3 minutes we got the front half of the car back on the hoist, and luckily not a scratch of damage anywhere! The hoist wasn't up when the car flew off, but it was a good 2-3 feet to the ground from the ramp.

So anyway, I asked the mechanic if he's done, he says yes... I asked if he wanted me to take the car off the hoist and he gives me this "HELL NO" response as if it was my fault. He gets in, starts backing it out, suddenly I hear a big clunk and the car won't go back and just knocks forward. OH ****ING GREAT!!! He hit the heat shield on the catalytic convertor while going down the ramp (u know, the car sits kinda low, even though it's stock). He made a big ****ing hole in it. At the end of the oil change I was tense, he was tense.... He says to me "it's not a big deal, just the heat shield... next time you come for an oil change I'll patch it up for you okay?". I said "whatever" and in my head I was like "as if I'm going to come back for a ****ing oil c hange!!!!".

Now I don't know if it's just me, but as I was driving I noticed the engine temperature was higher than it was suppose to be. It was around 110-115 Degrees Celsius, but not yet in the red area. Then again it's about 40 degrees celsius outside so it might just be the temperature. It also felt crazy hot in the heat shield area.... Either way I'm freaked out after today!

 

Gee fun story... glad nothing bad really happened...

As far as the heat shield is concerned, I lost mine at around 160 mph on a dip on the 401... I wonder though if it managed to slash anyone's tires behind me mwa ha ha ha ha h

Damn I'm evil at times...

My heat shield was damaged a lot by speed bumps and what not dips and it doesn't make any real difference. Only at emissions testing time will you have to make sure that the cat is fired up prior to testing, till then it'll get to its intended temp no matter how hard you try to cool it...

The heat shield is designed to keep heat in the cat to make it fire up quicker. I'd try and keep the engine running at peak efficiency rather than relying on the cat for emissions anyways.

And on another note, its 3000 miles/5000kms you should do an oil change. In a span of 3 weeks I racked up 4000 kms (drag day and trip to Ottawa and reg driving habits)... 300000 here I come...

On another note, with my 16 rims I get a 0.5 inch drop on my car and getting it on a hoist is done as a fine art. I do my own oil changes anyways though so rarely will my car see a hoist.

Another note, we got humidity/heat alerts cars will run hot (I can keep 180 though thx to minor tricks) Even with the A/C on...

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but.......should his car have started in gear?

 

I'm not trying to offend you but why would you do that without first checking to see if it was in gear.

It's common practice to leave a manual trans vehicle in 1st or 2nd when parked whether the hand brake is on or not.

Accordingly, it's one of the things you look at before starting the dam thing; particulary if someone else has been driving it.

 

Yes, a standard car will start in gear with the clutch depressed.

As a standard driver, first rule is always make sure you put your car in neutral before starting it.
It sucks that you had to learn the hard way, but good no body damage.

Don't blame the mechanic. First rule is when your a mechanic, when parking an unknown standard vehicle always leave it in gear so it doesn't roll, you never know when a E-break can fail.

 

I'd say the second rule is never let a customer near the car when you're working on it.

 

i agreee i should've looked, but the fact that he just said "reach in and start the car" so casually, and he should've at least put on the hand brake.

i'm just use to my mechanic where he always puts it in neutral, so it slipped my mind.... that and the fact that whenever i park the car it's in neutral.

 

It wouldn't have matter if the hand brake was on or not, it still would have jumped forward when you let off the clutch.

 

Rule #1 - When sensing something foreboding. do one's OWN OIL CHANGES.

 

OIL change should take an unexperienced person ehhhh about 30 minutes. I do it in ten and thats slackin it. hehehehhee good thing no damage because you wouldve been fricken crazy,,,,temperary insanity.

 

First of all... it is not a rule of thumb to leave a manual transmission in gear! Why should you when you have a perfect working PARKING brake? I NEVER leave my manual cars in gear, unless my parking brake is broken.

 

this is a good reason to change your own oil

 

And you might want to grease the pig while you're at it.

Gotta remember too though; there's a lot of guys who couldn't change a light bulb in 10 minutes never mind an oil filter.

As for leaving it in gear; fairly standard practice.

 

Easy, come on man! Change your own oil dude. That car looks mint...let this be your first warning as to how easy it really is to mess it up!

 

Let's just be glad nothing serious happened...

Easy, a lesson in stick is that you shouldn't release the clutch unless your sure you want it in gear or in neutral... always check the shifter.

For the mechanic, he's in the clear by my standards... I was taught that parking breaks ARE by no means 100% reliable in keeping a car from moving... hence I was taught that you leave it in gear when you work on a car that is not your own. I always have this little routine I go through whenever I start a car where I check the shifter first before starting...

On the other point though, as a mechanic working on someone else's car only I start the car and the owner has to keep away till I'm done, its for their safety first and mine. That was a mistake in my opinion and goes against standard practice... liability and insurance agrees on that too as does common sense.

The owner has no idea of the state of the car while you are working on it. That's why it should only go back to the owner when its 100% ok or close to ok...

That's just what I learned working in a shop.. you gotta be careful anything can happen in an instant of a second... from some people's rt's it would be wise of them to keep out of shops lmao... hehe

 

Don't take this the wrong way "but you are learning some harsh lessons man..... I am sorry but I am laughing right now!!" you always seem to get yourself into these things you just have some bad luck going on.. My suggestion to you is take some time to look around and make sure it is in neutral before disengaging the clutch... and the next time you get a gut feeling GO WITH THAT! ....

hahahahahah sorry sorry hahahahaha
Just tell me to F**k OFF

 

**** off

hehehe

 

I still don't think its a given that you put it in gear... and how is a gear better than a parking brake? A gear can easily cause the engine to turn, causing the car to roll.... I prefer the brake...

I always "wiggle my stick" before starting a car

 

I have to agree with the others here, the mechanic is not at fault. I've done the exact same thing though, as I always leave my standard cars in neutral. I've started my car and quickly released the clutch without checking to see if it was in gear or not. I do get pissed off, but more at myself for not checking to see if it was in gear.

Once you get in the car with the intentions of starting/driving it, you become responsible for the safety of the vehicle. Operator Error = driver responsibility.

 

Firstly, a manual car should ALWAYS be left in gear when parked, regardless of whether the e-brake works or not. You never know when the e-brake is gonna fail...and if the brakes are hot that day and you apply the e-brake, when the brakes cool down what do you think happens? The e-brake will not be holding as well at that point. I am yet to go to any garage with any of the standard cars that I've owned where it is not standard practise to park the car in gear and not to touch the e-brake...this is for the exact reason that Cruz stated above.

Secondly, it was super hot out yesterday so I wouldn't worry too much about your car running hot yet. Just keep your eye on it.

Acceld: No, not all cars require the clutch to be depressed. Most newer cars do, for the safety purposes. But I've owned a couple cars that did have that feature...it's kinda funny (and scary) when you crank your car to start it while it's in mistakenly in gear and the clutch disengaged...it really takes off!

 

On the street leaving a vehicle in gear or not, is the drivers option. Just personal driving style. I always leave my truck in first or reverse, but then I don't use the e-brake.
On a hoist, always leave a vehicle in neutral. Automatic's included. Have you ever watched the rear wheels as a car is lifted, when it's in gear? Or as it's lowered down. It binds the drivetrain and can put alot stress on it. It may not actually do any damage, but why risk it.
Just something I was taught. Mechanics could know better. IMO.

 

That sucks pretty bad but I wouldnt lable all Speedys bad, but taking a car to any of those chain places like speedy and midas etc is risky.
As for the car in gear, I wouldnt blame the mechanic for putting it in gear but he shouldnt get customers to start their cars on the hoist. Its to bad he didnt put the e-brake on which in my opinion he shouldve. The car probly wouldve just stalled and you would be feeling pretty lucky. If I were you I would just do oil changes yourself. Not worth putting such a nice car in the hands of a stranger. Thats my 3 cents

 

Hey easyspeed.. I worked at Minute Lube for 4 months a long time ago.... SO I am Certified Lubrication Technician... (Remember the posting guys about my custom wires I put on my car... oh ya KY anyone).... hahahahah Do it yourself or learn any TARD can do it..... Or stop by house some day and I will teach you since you are a fellow 92 Camaro owner... hahahahaha

 

**** you

 

HAHAHAHAHAHH Thats hillarious you are learning things the hard way! The funny part is I was the same way a couple years ago when I was 18 and only had my car for a short time I learned everything the hard way too. Christ I spent the first two days and nights without any headlight because I couldn't figure out how the hell to turn them on who would think you pull a dial instead of turning it

 

The mechanic was TOTALLY at fault. I would have beat his a*s if there had been damage if it was me. Yes it is true, the customer isn't supposed to be in the working area, but when my cars were in the shop in the past, and if ever in the future, I am ALWAYS with my car. There are too many fu**ing idiots out there that love to do stupid things to customer cars. There are also alot of crooks. If your present, it knocks down the odds of scamming.
Should you have known your car was in first? Maybe, but it doesn't matter, the mechanic was now totally responsible for your car, it was now under their roof on their hoist. You drop of your dry cleaning, whether you stay to watch them clean it or not, they are responsible. That's the business they are in.
It may have been an honest mistake, could happen to any of us, but it was still his mistake.

 

Leaving a manual car in gear is standard practice to me- if you had one of the GM floor-pedal-type parking brakes- they can, and do, jump off frequently- I'm sure the hand brake can move too.

I believe also that the 'hoist' must have been a drive-on unit- i.e. tracks below wheels, front to back, correct? If it was- this idea about "drivetrain stress" by leaving it in gear is not applicable as the wheels were never off the 'ground' as it were.

If you actually talk to people who have/do drive standard vehicles for years- they almost invariably put the car in gear, especially on hills/slopes (i.e. in Reverse if car is pointing downhill, or 1 or 2 if car is rear is pointing downhill- it's extra 'insurance' for the car not running down the hill. Also- a maladjusted or heavily worn parking brake setup won't keep a vehicle from rolling backwards on any kind of a slope- how is a mechanic supposed to know if your p-brake is in good working order?

By the very nature that you started the vehicle- you made a number of [bad] assumptions- and you have hopefully learned a lesson- don't ASSume anything.

As for the bending of the heat shield- yes, I would agree that the technician should have been more careful and 'effed this up- especially if your ride is stock-height and not lowered.

 

Hate to break it to you but as a Service Advisor you can't fire up a car and run it prior to testing. Provincial standards dictate that cars are not supposed to be run before they go on the Dyno because then every single car can be tested the exact same way. Your neighbour down the street gets the same treatment that you do. Of course, that said, maximum efficiency isn't reached until the car has been running for 40 minutes anyways.. . Next time you want an oil change come and see me if you don't do it yourself, I'll take care of your car.

 

Apart from citing "provincial standards" what is your authority for saying that cars are not supposed to be run before being put on a dyno.

For example, which statute, which regulation etc.

I have access to all of them and I'd like to know where it says that.

I'm not saying you're wrong I'd just like to know the answer to that one.

 

What reflects real world conditions? A cold cat or a fired up cat? 99% of the time a car will be running on the road with a fired up cat so doesn't running a cold cat defeat the purpose of testing since the car isn't at its normal operating conditions???

Go figure... how easily common sense is tossed out the window...

 

Testing with a cold cat does not defeat the purpose of testing if you want the car to fail so that you can hone the customer for some needless repairs.

 

I don't have any. None whatsoever. I'm not a drive clean technician and I haven't taken any courses on it. If you have the statutes then check 'em out and tell me what you find but I can almost guarantee its not going to be in the book of statutes. Its probably under usual testing practices or something like that.

My fault, I probably wasn't clear enough when I said cars are not supposed to be run before going on a dyno. Driving to your test is ok, driving into the shop is ok, running it on the machine is ok. sitting in the parking lot with it running for a half hour before your test is not - that type of thing. If you have a tech who has taken a Drive Clean course just ask him if you're supposed to run cars for a half hour or so before you put them on the machine. I don't know about your shop, but at mine if a customer brings a car in and leaves it running in the parking lot before an emissions test I have to go outside and tell them to shut it off.

Of course, if you have a buddy who can do your drive clean for you and will run your car like that beforehand then do that. I've already said cars don't reach peak efficiency until after they've been running for about 40 minutes. You CAN make almost all vehicles (aside from those with major problems) pass an emissions test if you do it right. (And by right I mean not doing it the way you're supposed to.)

I'm not saying that it hasn't been done before and its against the law, I'm saying that it is contradictory to what is SUPPOSED to be done. There is a reason for it of course, it is designed to make the testing equal for everybody. That and the fact that Drive cleans don't make anybody money. Do you know how much it would have to cost for a test if you had to tie up a tech for 40 minutes to run the car first and then do the drive clean??

 

How many tests have you done?

A car is put on the dyno. Information relevant to that year, make and model of the car is entered into the computer. The car is then RUN on the machine at certain RPM's to bring it to normal operating temperature and tested.

However, most cars do not reach peak efficiency until after they have been running for about 30-40 minutes at which point emissions improve. Don't ask why because I don't know. I have seen cars fail if the test is done correctly to ministry standards and then PASS when their buddy at the drive clean shop runs it like that first.

George,

Drive clean isn't designed for the tests to take like 2 hours. There are only abou 20-30% of cars fail anyways and its designed to catch the cars which are really bad for emissions. Usually the cars that fail have big problems not little ones and it has nothing to do with "unecessary repairs". If a car I bring in fails marginally, I recommend a couple of things to try then tell the customer to have the car retested again in a few days to get it to pass.

Who the hell needs to spend more money than they have to? I've been on the other side of the counter too, I hate the damn things. Its a pain in the *** to deal with, people hate it and they bitch at me all the time. You know what hell I go through when a friggin car FAILS for chrissakes?! I pray to *** that every single car I write up passes because I hate dealing with them. Oh yeah.. I love Drive Cleans and 'unecessary repairs'.. gimme a break..

 

NO WHERE in the Ontario Drive Clean Facility (DCF) Standard Operating Procedure Manual does it dictate valid/invalid procedures or treatment of a vehicle before it's tested. Car could be run up and down the Indy 500 and driven right up to the emissions test machine or left cold for a month. The only item that IS specified is that the engine must be at least warm enough to not be on a 'high idle' for the test-i.e. dead cold is not acceptable as it falls outside of the speed vs. engine RPM range that would be considered 'valid'.

To summarize the lead-up to an emission test as laid out in the SOP manual: as long as the car is not believed reasonably to be able to damage the emission testing equipment or DCF employees and once connected can be cycled according to DriveClean parameters- the test is valid. Being hot, warm or anything else other than that mentioned above before the test is initiated is not a specific point of criteria or issue.

If mechanics/emissions inspectors refuse to let customers run their engines before the test (presumably outside the building- if inside they must have exhaust tubes carrying the exhaust outside (i.e. 'harm to DCF employees'))- they are either badly mis-informed or are looking to increase the number of potential failures in order to get a few more repair dollars out of the event.

 

I already told you I'm not a Drive Clean tech. If you've checked the practices book then fine its not in there and I can tell you its not going to be in the statutes either. I thought I already established that its not against the law to run it like that before a test.

Following along with you've checked out, I can go to shop A and leave my car for a couple of hours to have a test done. Lets say at the same time my neighbour wants his car tested as well and for arguments sake it is the exact same model, same mileage, options and everything. My neighbour though, takes his car to shop B where a friend of his runs his car in the parking lot for lets say 40 minutes first. Now at which shop will that car most likely pass a test? If you guessed shop A you're wrong!

Now do you think it is fair to me if my car fails and the neighbours passes? Despite the fact that they are the exact same in every other way? Do you seriously think the Drive Clean program was designed to be run so that your testing wasn't the same as your neighbours? Think about it.

I'm off tommorow but when I go in on Saturday, I'll ask them where exactly all of the techs in our shop learned that little bit.

 

Btw, I don't mean to sound snappy.. its been a long day. (sigh)

Seriously I hate them too.. I have to take my bird in after I do the fuel pump and I'm not looking forward to it.

 

Very little in this world is 'fair' or 'equitable'. As specifically applied to how these hypothetically identical vehicles requiring DC tests are treated prior to being put to the test-this is not the DCF or the DriveClean programs' problem.

If you believe the DCF you leave your car at will let it sit in the parking lot for 2 hours before firing it up, driving it 10 feet to the dyno and then running the test- then DON'T take your car to such a facility- take it to one where you can book a specific time, drive up and in and have the test done immediately. Your knowledge and education about such programs is your only advantage. Trusting your local Crappy Tire or such to do a proper job, at least in the GTA, is probably asking a bit too much. The optimum situation would be a facility where they let you drive up and on, and then let YOU make adjustments (i.e. to fuel and ignition system)- but these will obviously be few and far between- although there is no DriveClean restriction about a vehicle owner making adjustments or repairs- just that the work will not count towards the "Repair Cost Limit" for a conditional pass.

Also- what many people may not be aware of- the 'inspector' running the DC dyno does not have to be a mechanic or have ANY automotive qualifications- just completion of the training course, passing the test and having a 'sponsor'-i.e. a licensed DCF that will employ him or her. This is also why, at least on paper, there are 2 classifications of DCF's: "Test Only Centre" and "Test and Repair Centre". If you go to a DCF where one guy runs the test but a totally different guy does the repairs- this might be a 'tip-off' the test guy is NOT a mechanic or even necessarily an apprentice.

Anyways- that's all I have to say/report about DriveClean at the moment...

 

I've done 3 official drive clean tests for the stickers and all passed, I had 1 failure because I went to CT and they tried to pull a fast one for repairs when I knew I had just bought a cat roughly 4 months prior to testing...

My car takes a good 30 mins to have the cat fired up, to test it cold is to test it while its still in its warm up cycle when its tossing rich mixture in. That's not even close to normal operating conditions. there is no set standard for emissions, but as long as the facility uses the same method of testing and isn't car specific then I say its ok. The facility I go to recommends that the car be run for a good 30 mins high rpm on the road (not parking lot) prior to testing. Then and only then with an appointment he'll test. If you still fail at that point, then it definitly deserves to fail.

That in my opinion is a mechanic that runs a good practice, not because he wants the extra work, but because he believes and he explained to me that this isn't some trick to simply be better at emissions or doing a trick to get them to pass, they are at their proper operating conditions at this point, so doesn't it make sense to run a test at the proper operating conditions???

 

Yup, but in the end I'm not sure it makes a huge difference anyways. You don't have to have any mechanical knowledge to run the testing machine, but you do need it if you need to adjust or fix something on the car. I would think that at most places mechanics who run a DC and adjust fuel etc. as they go along are pretty rare.

Yeah but thats exactly it. It does make sense to do it that way. I know how vehicles are treated isn't the DCF's problem but thats my point. The program is garbage. I know how our place, and several other places work and DC's are run that way. As you've already said, your mechanic does it differently. Testing isn't done equally by far and it means that I have to listen to more bitching. People can and will have it tested at another place then come and ask "Why would a car fail a drive clean test?". You explain it to them at which point they produce a failure from somewhere else and argue about why the other place didn't pass their car. (sigh) I really do hate 'em..

 

I'm confused now... ah who cares really..

I pass not because I need a favor but because my car really is running good and I think that's what counts the most.

 

You have to keep in mind, the test method is not scientific.
even the manufactures will admit that there are just too
many variables.
The government started this program to deflect attention away
from other real environmental issues which they can do something about, but don't want to.
Car emmisions testing has been a failure and a fraud and a waste of money (ours) in every state/ prov it has been tried.
Many states have gotten rid of it.
The only real solution to real reduction in automotive emmisions
is new technology from the manufacturers, and getting that technology to market. Not testing old cars that "will do what they do".
We have road side smog patrols to find gross poluters
and unsafe vehicles and increase public awareness. This is cost effective and works.
Make your government aware you are not happy with the present laws.

 

The mechanic at speedy is not at fault what so ever.I do this stuff for a living.Some mechanic's put it in gear some dont, me, i just put it in neutral, but some guys stick it in gear,two, when you fired it up, you should of clicked in that once that cluth pedal is depressed, she's gonna jump, but anyway, as long as there is no damage.

o about the drive clean, we do drive cleans at the shop i work at and everyone is qualified including me,best to have the car at "normal operatin temperature". If the car is cold, well, easy to warm it up, on the machine there is a tire drying option before yo do the test, i just do that, puts a load on the car,you goin around 45km/h, car warm's up nice, so far the only cars we have failed is ****boxes that runs like crap and have lack of maintenence!othere than that, everything passes...

 

Not to sould like an A**. But anytime you start a car you always check if it is in gear PRIOR to starting. In fact, I would say you should not own a stick. The mechanic is not at fault YOU are. You turned the key.

 

LOL I thought this post was long gone. Sucks for easyspeed... thats another automatic 2 months of taunting and teasing added on.

 

LOL... yeah really.. although I haven't heard much from him in a while.. maybe he's getting his car ready for that Eleanor paint job

 

Let it go guys.

 

Geez leave this thread be already, some moderator help.. lock this up before people get riled up.

 

Sorry I just got curious when I saw it popped up again... Its not like it was harsh or crude or anything though its not the sticker thread or anything . Although I got to say it takes dial up like 2 minutes to load this long *** ****

 

I'm just gonna say a few things.

Whenever I shut off my car, I always put it in neutral and put on my e-brake. Whenever I go to my mechanic, he always puts it in neutral.

Now, whenever you are used to doing the same thing, you get use to it, and don't bother checking anymore.

I can give many reasons why the mechanic is at fault. First of all, I wasn't suppose to be in the working area, it's against his regulations. Secondly, he shouldn't have asked me to get in, he should have done it himself. I could go on and on.

Sure, I may have been clumsy for not looking but whatever I made the mistake and I'm over it. Does that mean I don't know how to drive 5-speed? NO? So blow me fool! I don't even see you owning a camaro.

 

Hey Easy....what took you so long to reply

Now take it easy buddy. Breath. Take it stride. Be the bigger man and walk away(remember respect)(The young one's..they always need to be looked after) Besides, do really want another guy to blow you?? Come on. Forget about it. If he replies and I'm sure he will, ignore it. Please. You send another hot headed reply and your banned REMEMBER! Johnny has already put a warning on you. Is another guys comment worth being kicked off this board?

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John/Paul.....LOCK THIS THREAD UP!