Hey guys,

I found out some awesome news - if I get a 350 block in my 89 GTA, I can get a hotrod emissions classification because the 350 wasn't available in a manual tranny car...so I get to be tested under 1980 vehicle emission standards, which should be a breeze for my planned fuel injected setup! The NOX and CO levels can be a bit higher, and the HC levels are allowed to go through the roof.

Everything is falling into place nicely lol. I just need to pass my initial e-test so that I can drive the car for now :> If it won't pass, I can probably get a fudged receipt for some engine work and get a 1 year exemption, and by the time I gotta test again, I'll have my new motor in the car...woo!

--Mike

 

I hope it works for you, but I understand that if that engine was offered in your vehicle (regardless of what transmission you have) it won't fly.

Just tell them it's a 400 small block..some ask for paperwork to prove it..

 

I called the DriveClean office in my area, and they said they will give me a hotrod exemption as long as the manufacturer gives me a letter stating the engine wasn't offered with my transmission. Maybe not everyone will, but the lady I was talking to at DriveClean went and checked with her manager to make sure, so I think I'm alright.

 

hmm...now you got me thinking...maybe i should just put in a 400

whats the largest stock small block that is readily available? Is 400 as big as they got? And will I be able to bolt up all my accessories and an aftermarket TPI setup to it (i.e. stealth ram), or was something different about the larger sizes?

 

Instead of 400 go 383 and stroke it.................

 

isn't a 383 a stroked 350? do they actually have "stock" 383 motors? whats wrong with going 400? or stroked 400?

Will any small block bolt right up to my engine mounts? And will a TPI intake (aftermarket, but I don't think that matters in terms of compatibility) bolt right up to any small block motor? I just want to make sure I cover my bases before I go out and buy a motor to build up. I definitely want to stick with the fuel injection.

 

I have a stroked sbc 400, yes pretty much everything bolts up but you will need a 2 piece 153 tooth flywheel and a mini starter

383 is a 350 block bored .030over giving a 4.030 bore and has a 3.750 stroke
or
383 can be a stock bored 350 which has a 4.000 bore and a 3.800 stroke

Stock a 400 has a 4.125 bore and a 3.750 stroke,

my motor has a 4.155 bore (.030over) and a 3.800 stroke

depending on the flywheel you get you will need a conter weight as most 400's were external balanced and your 350 is internal balanced

 

Sounds counter-intuitive to me but with those government azzholes down is up and up is down.

I hope they don't change their minds when you go back to them.

So what would happen if you swapped in an auto tranny with the 350 later; would that change anything..lol

 

I think its just easier to get the TPI to run right and pass emissions.

 

you can get a classification where you don't have to take the test anymore I'm currently working on it.

 

Thanks hawk, that helped clear up some of my questions.

here in ontario? I've never heard of such a thing...what are the requirements?

I agree completely, and that's what I'm going to do for this initial e-test, and I'll be good for 2 years. But I have plans for lots and lots of mods, so getting that exemption will mean I don't need to swap my old motor back in every 2 years to pass another e-test

I have no idea...I'm guessing that because the VIN on my car is for a manual car, the manufacturer can claim that a 350 motor was not in fact offered in my car. But now I'm thinking of going with a 400, in which case it won't matter either way.

So I tried to do some more reading on the matter, and if I'm not mistaken, the biggest small block available in stock specs is a 400, right (not counting the 427 LS7)? I think I'm going to try to find myself a 400 block to build up and stroke, and if I can't find one for a reasonable price, then I'll probably just get a 350 and stroke it, as originally planned.

--Mike

 

The VIN doesnt say anything about the transmission it came with.

 

er, you are right...i dunno what i meant by that, wasn't really thinking...just scratch the VIN part, i think i wanted to say that the car was built as a manual so it could be claimed that the car wasn't available with a 350. Either way it seems like a grey zone to me for sure, but as long as the lady I talked to can make it happen (and it seemed like she could), I don't really care

 

Ya the 400 is the largest gen 1 sbc, the LS7 is a LSx set-up, wrong gen, totaly different, nothnig interchanges

I am in the middle of putting together another stroked 400, this one has the 4.155 bore also (0.030over) and a larger 3.875 stroke and also a LT4 stroker 396 for the 96 which is a 4.030bore and a 3.875 stroke, both fully forged

 

since this car is most likely going to be my daily driver (at least I want it to be...it would be a shame to make such a beautiful thing a trailer queen), is it possible to retain at least SOME fuel economy from a 400 motor, assuming I use a mild cam and fuel injection? Or is that not even possible? What can be done to help improve fuel economy from a ground-up engine build? I haven't been able to find too much info on this topic.

Thanks,

--Mike

 

I wouldnt know..My car had a 454 the last time..It did pretty good on the high way though 14-16mpg

 

My car's a DD and the other 400 set-up thats being built is going into my DD winter truck

A 400 is no worse on gas then a 383 is, have had both

 

that would be sweet if this works for you ...I have the same thing ... previous 305 5 speed .... now a 350 ( turbo) with 5 speed .

Crossing fingers

 

Good luck trying to get a letter from GM on anything..

When I went for my Hotrod tests I just brought the original 1986 dealer sales brochure that has the engine/transmission options to prove no 86 camaro came with a 350. They didn't even look at it. I was told (by the shop who tested) that even that if my car was, say an 87, when you could get a 350, my 350 gen 2 LT1 didn't count as 'hotrod' as they went on engine block displacement only.

You should try and see if a shop will run the Hotrod test for you if you say it came factory with a 5 speed in it (although the 350 and manual didn't exist to my knowledge), and you converted it to manual. Slip the guy a $50 to assist in the decision...

Bottom line, you need a shop to do the test and decide if it is a Hotrod or not no matter what somebody at MTO says. I tried getting Hotrod info from them and every single person I ever spoke to was a frickin moron. A test tech let me look in his Driveclean training manual, and I photocopied all the 'grey area' ie Hotrod and Kitcar pages in case I hit any snags..and didn't.

 

a shop usually won't do a test under hotrod classification without a letter certifying the car as such from DriveClean. If they do, then they could get in a lot of trouble. Conversely, if you have a letter from DriveClean, every shop will without hassling you...so I think I'll go the route of getting the classification from DriveClean.

 

So how do you get this classification ....

 

just gotta send DriveClean the letter from the manufacturer...if I can manage to get one. If I have to, I'll go to a dealer and pay em to deal with GM and get me a damn letter...I'm sure GM would be more accommodating to them.

 

I don't they make such a thing in NY that I have heard of. If the car is ODB1 then it doesn't have to be smog tested. They do a safety inspection and just look for the usual items for emissions. IE.. Cat, Air Pump etc.. etc.. If it was equipped with emissions, it should be there for the inspection but doesn't have to work. Also the check engine light or SES can not be on at all or it will automatically fail the inspection. ODB2 cars are hooked up to the computer for emissions checked. Currently they are not checked for HC's or any other sniffer through the exhaust. But they don't care what engine you have in your car as long as it passes.

4 ever

 

As it's not really a contentious issue you might eventually get a letter from them but I woudn't count on it any time soon.

I've had some issues with GM and the area rep etc. I found them to be complete scumbags - like dealing with the corrupt little suckers that you find in government agencies, city hall etc. No one at GM will do anything unless they have a gun pointed at their head.

 

I second the good luck on a letter from GM or Driveclean. Why would they give you a letter for anything? It's not worth their time or sticking their neck out..

I've had 2 tests done under hotrod classification at 2 different shops with no hassle or questions at all. All they check is that you have a gas cap that passes. Just bring 2 if in doubt!

 

I never needed a letter to get my hotrod status

 

I was wondernig about that whole process .... what do you do ..... say Hay I got a different motor than GM ever installed ?

 

yes

 

So what is hotrod status?

Does it mean I can remove all that pollution stuff that seems to crowd my engine bay?

 

I've had several cars tested as a Hot Rod just by telling the shop the car had a 400 SBC in it.

Hot Rod status just means that when the test the car they default it to 1980 levels, and they don't look for installed emissions equipment. It makes it easier to pass the test since the emissions levels are higher than what you would normally have to pass. By law, all emissions equipment that came on the car when it was manufactured needs to be on the car, you can't just remove it because the Drive Clean center won't look for it. The Police and MTO can and do charge people if any equipment is missing. Spot checks have increased in the last few years.

 

all the shops I talked to said they check the numbers stamped on the block to see what kind of block it is. If the size of the block was offered that year, they won't test it as hotrod. I don't know any shop that would take the risk of testing a 350 block car as a hotrod tho, the fine they would face would be quite large if they were caught. That's why if I'm going for the 383 (forged 350) then I want to get that letter from GM and get DriveClean to give me the "official" hotrod status on the car - no problems at the shop that way.

Regarding emissions: what "equipment" is required to stay? For example, how can they "spot check" if the EGR has been deleted? I'm guessing cat converters also fall under this category, but you could just gut the insides of the cat, and again, how would they know?

It seems kind of odd that if you replace the engine, you need to keep pollution control equipment that was on the original engine, when the engines can be completely different. Say you get a crate motor that doesn't have any EGR related stuff available - do you have to go and rig up some sorta EGR stuff for it?

 

Spot check means they pull you over on the road, pop the hood and see what is missing from your engine.. to my knowledge they don't put in a sniffer.

I'd just bring the car in and try for hotrod...ever call a shop and ask on the phone if they work for cash? Get my drift?

 

i got your drift a long time ago, but finding shops around here willing to screw with e-test stuff is getting very difficult. There used to be a few around, but nobody seems to be willing to do it anymore. I'm gonna be in Ottawa from Monday to Wednesday, so if you wanna recommend a shop that may be willing to "work for cash" then I'll make a stop there at some point (if my friday e-test doesn't pass, but I think it'll do alright).

--Mike

 

hmm ...Gears turning ... Will a Big block fit in a 3rd Gen Trans Am? .... thinking of a 454 ...

 

Why would you want the extra weight of a Big Block stuffed under the hood and have to deal with doing the stronger struts.. You would be much further ahead and get a small block chevy LSX 454 C.I.D.

But, even if someone looks under the hood it will almost look like a 350..

 

Ask Daz, all his motors are big block 305s..lol

 

Big Block 305????? Is that using reverse physcology by saying that because the block is bigger than a 3.8 that it is a big block? Since I only live 24miles from the Canadian Border and I am going to find out about this hotrod emissions testing that everyone is talking about.

 

yes it will fit..



whats reverse phsyiology?..lol

 

Nice looking Engine DAZ.. The AN braided are the only way to go...

 

I think it might be a medical condition which is often corrected at birth with a minor surgical procedure and a name change..lol

 

because completing an LS7 install will cost him as much as, if not more than, 5 big block 454's putting out the same power lol


lmao...