I'm hoping to try a few things tonight, but I wanted to see what others had to say..

1st off: I did my intake a little different. I put the water connections in the back on the intake (closest to the firewall). I know this may pose some problems, but I agree to be the guinea pig on that one.

That being said, here is a summary of my past couple days...
Friday night I put the intake on the motor...new gaskets, etc. Once I hooked everything up (Saturday) and began to fill the radiator with water (wanted to make sure everything was fine w/out wasting coolant)...I notice water coming out from under the intake (driver's side front corner where normally the coolant exits the head). I end up yanking the intake and realizing that the silicone I used on the water ports was still soft (must have been old silicone).

A set of new gaskets and silicone later, we return and all seems fine when I am filling it with water again. OK, I try to start the car. No luck...just cranks.

Turns out somehow I got the timing 180* out... fixed that. Cranks...No start.. Battery dies (was sitting for a couple weeks now).

After recharging the battery... cranks... sputters...dies. So I start checking plugs. All the driver's side plugs are wet...passenger side are not. The wet ones seem like it's gas on them...but I'm not positive.

So now I'm worried. The wet plugs are on the side of the head that had the leaking coolant. Apparently when I inspected the pulled intake gaskets I did have a damp gasket on both the front and rear water ports. Is is possible I have a little water in the cylinders now?

Any other suggestions why this sucker wont start? I bought the intake and fuel rail separately, and used the 24# LT1 injectors that came with it. The LT1 motor that the fuel rails were from was out in the weather. Is it possible the injectors are clogged badly or not working properly...

If you can't tell, I'm starting to get a little frustrated.

Anyone with some suggestions here would be appreciated.

Thanks!!!

 

First you need to figure out If you have pressure at the rail.

Then you need to decide weather or not you have spark at the plugs.

Once those two things are verified, start worrying about the less likely Stuff.

Half the plugs being wet, while the other bank dry Seems a little weird to me.

Check those two things and get back to us.

 

Well, I plan to pick up a fuel pressure guage tonight, but there was fuel at both lines when I disconnected them to pull the intake back off.



I verified this by resting the #1 plug on a header and watching it spark as I cranked the motor.

Yes, it's definitely weird...and frustrating.

Thanks for the help!

 

Fuel pressure at the rail does not mean that the injectors are firing.

Let's try an old method. Pick up a can of starting fluid, spray a few seconds worth into the throttle body (open the blades by hand of course). Now try and start the car. If it runs then you've answered the question. It won't run for long though with only starting fluid.

 

Sounds like you dumped some water down the intake ports. Try drying it out (new plugs?) and John's suggestion on starting fluid. Mine's always been a bear when trying to start after a rebuild. Usually I end up squirting gas into the TB to get it to fire. If your timing is off, it won't help. Have someone crank it over while you look at the timing with a light, to make sure you're close.

BTW, I have one cooling outlet in the back, so you're not first

 

Thanks for the feedback, guys. OK, here's the update:

I picked up a fuel pressure gauge. Hooked it up...turned ignition on...fuel pressure went up to 60 or so... didn't get a good look at it because when the fuel pump kicked back off a second later - it dropped back to -0- . It did this quickly. Seems like the injectors that came with the fuel rail are probably stuck in the open position on the drivers side.

Tonight, I plan to put the L98 injectors on there (probably should have from the beginning) and see if those hold up better.

I also borrowed a cooling system pressure tester from a friend of mine, so I can make sure the intake has sealed up to the heads nicely.


RCR, I was thinking the same thing about having water in the intake ports. I am hoping that if I did, that it's dried out by now. Oh, and I have BOTH water ports in the back, I thought you had just one? How has your car been thus far?

 

Welp, it didn't hold. Water leaks from between the heads/intake near the rear water ports.

For some reason I just can't get the intake to seal to the heads!

I'm willing to give it one more try (3rd time)...but I need some advice as to what I may be doing wrong. This is quite frustrating.

I wonder if the water ports are just TOO close to the edge of the intake manifold. Remember, these are trick flow 23* heads...not stock.

Anyone with some words of wisdom??? PLEASE????

 

I'm sure you are aware, but this sounds like your problem, either that or the intake itself is warped. Have you checked out the flanges with a straight edge yet? If so, have you mocked up some templates to trace the water outlets/bolt holes on the head to see how it is interfacing the intake? And out of idle curiosity, what type of gaskets are you using?

 

Well, the first time I installed the intake (with the crappy old silicone) and got the leak...I pulled the gaskets off. It appears there IS some overlap between the top of the water ports and the edge of the intake manifold. I had used a fel-pro gasket and what turned out to be crappy black silicone. This install leaked at the FRONT.

On the second install, I used a Mr Gasket standard SBC intake gasket and a new tube of blue silicone. Before placing the intake gasket, I ran a thin line of silicone around the water ports front and back...then laid the gasket...then another thin layer of silicone on top of the gasket. This install leaked at the REAR.

When I pull the intake back off, I will check with a straight edge to see if the intake is straight. If it isn't, is there anything I can do? Can a machine shop straighten it...if so, how much will something like that cost? Is there a better gasket that is a little thicker that will take up the difference if it's only a little off? This process is becoming more expensive than I had planned.

 

Are you bolting everything up just after putting the silicone on? If so, how long are you waiting before you put water in the motor? You should apply the silicone to the gasket, let it sit and tack up for about 10-15 minutes, and then install everything. This will give you a better seal. And don't get crazy with it either. You only need about a 1/8" bead around the outlet. Also wait at least about 4 hours before filling it with water.

If it turns out that there is in fact overlap, you can have a machine shop weld on some extra aluminum to the edge of the manifold by the water outlets. Then they can machine it smooth. This will solve the problem for sure. I really don't think that the intake would be warped. It takes some serious heat and time for that to happen.

 

I waited about 15 min before installing the intake after applying the silicone - only used a thin bead. Tightened all bolts down from the center (near the vacuum lines) outward. Waited a whole day before filling it with water and finally pressure testing.

How much do you think that would cost? I have spent more money than expected on this so far - I could have bought the Holley Stealth Ram setup already. I hate to give up, that's why I want to try again. I just get discouraged when I put a little 10psi on the system and hear a fairly steady drip of water coming off the tranny and onto the garage floor.

 

If the leak moved then one of 2 things happened. Either you had the intake moved farther forward this time, and it opened up some kind of a problem hole on th eback. Or, the intake surface isn,'t flat and depening on which side squishes first or further, the other side is a little lifted and leaks.

If it's the first you'll need a way to cover the offending hole. If it's the latter i think you could try some thicker gaskets like used for milled heads, or have a machine shop true it. Or a little JB Weld and some duct tape

 

Mine leaked like a stuck pick. I had clearance problems w/ the TB IAC, TPS, and the brackets/bracing that holds the pulley ***. on. Nothing like wasting 1.5 hours w/ a dremel.

I started the car and it idled at 2000rpm. I didn't notice the coolant leaking into my lifter valley. I figured it out the hard way when I noticed the whinning sound getting progressively louder.

I'm going to try tomorrow to start it after I change the oil and prim the oil pump by hand. Hopfully I don't need new bearings.

It better put me into the 11's or I'm going to burn this SOB to the ground.

 

Are the coolant fitting threads sticking out past the gasket preventing the intake from tightening down all the way?

I always see some of the thread and have to grind it down before bolting on an intake.

 

Damn trevor that sucks. Good luck with it. You should email me when you're going to the track, always nice to have some thirdgens to lose too instead of the usual TBI crap, lol

 

John,
I actually saw this to be the case before I even bolted it on the 1st time and I ground it down. I need to pull the intake and check to make sure there is still not a little sticking up - but I'd hope that would line up with the water port (as planned) and isn't the issue.

Ed,
Thanks for the idea on the JB weld! I think that I'll just cold-weld the intake to the heads! Any idea on a manufacturer that makes those "thicker" gaskets? I read somewhere about some that have a rubberized coating??

 

Damn, that REALLY sux. I am SO worried about that happening, so I plan to pressure test the system again to make SURE it's sealed before I try to fix the injectors and start the car.

[edit:] Oh, and I used a drill to make a shape where clearancing was needed then a screwdriver or pliers to 'snap' the offending piece off. It's all cast stuff and somewhat brittle.

Why do I sometimes feel like just slapping the stock intake back together????

 

Tell me about it. I'm glad I did the cam at the same time or I think I would've put the old one back on by now.

I don't think the 20"+ long runners and the stock 305 programing are going to like the 230/244* and .544/.576 lift. It'll probably have issues w/ the 30# inj. too. I'm glad I went w/ such a short runner like the LT1. I just wish it was a little easier to install.

PS- Ed, some guys from f-bodyhideout.com are going to the track (MIR) on the 9th of Nov. I plan on going w/ them and draging Poorboy w/ me (shhhh, he doesn't know it yet). I'd like to use his scanner and at least get a stock chip for a 350.

Give me a call or an email if your interested.

 

Ditto. LT4 Hot Cam. It's powerband seems like it would be wasted in a LTR setup. If this last try at the LT1 intake doesn't solve the problem, the stock intake is going back on.

 

Hang in there. It'll be worth it. (Both of you)
Red: You are correct, I only have one coolant passage in the back. Do you have pictures you can post. Maybe we can spot something you're missing. I'd like to see a picture of the intake ports.

 

I will try to take some shots tonight. I plan to mark on the head where the flange of the intake is...then remove the intake and see how much of an overlap there is.

Also, is it possible I am torquing the intake bolts too tight? I am using the torque specs (for Iron heads) in my book...I think it was 60lbs if I remember. Maybe the intake/aluminum heads require less?

I just ordered my Fel-Pro 1204. I'm going to pick up some Permatex Ultra Copper and hopefully give it another shot next week. *crosses fingers *

 

The shop manual calls out 25-45 ft-lbs on those bolts. The Trick Flow manual (TW G1) calls out 10ft-lbs then 30ft-lbs. You might be squeezing the gasket out, if that's possible. Also, you could pull the threads out of the head.

 

Thanks! I guess the book I have was WAY off. I don't know why I didn't use the manual for the heads (I have several copies even!)

Anyway, we shall see what happens!

 

Thanks! I guess the book I have was WAY off. I don't know why I didn't use the manual for the heads (I have several copies even!)

Anyway, we shall see what happens!

 

any luck with this yet. I'm going LT1 this winter and looking for any tips to use when assembling it.

 

New thread....

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...29#post1000829