I don't understand, I have beat cars on the street that have ran high 12s and low 13s, and now i go to the track and only run a best of 14.4 @96mph with a 2.2 60ft, I was never able to get anything better than a 2.2 60ft all day. I had 4 runs ranging from 14.4-14.7 all with 2.2X 60ft and all from 95-96mph. I know that a lot of factors come in to play but i expected to atleast get in to the 13s. The temp was in the upper 40s and I live in southeastern WI, so elevation doesn't matter because all of my other races have been in the same basic area. It was opening day and 1 week earlier the track was snow covered. Does anyone have any thoughts? My mods are in my sig, what would you recomend that I do next (headers, delete cats, suspension, intake???). I have about $1,000 to spend but if i sell my winter beater i could get about $2500 more but I don't know if I really want to do that Any help would be greatlly appreciated. I also found a really good deal on a 2002 Z28 6spd, so I could also sell my car and buy that but I dunno.

Thanks for your help

 

These are my mods,
I have a built bottom-end with all forged internals, the heads a pretty much stock besides roller rockers and they were milled a little, I still have the stock exhaust manifolds and cats, stock tpi intake, stock WS6 suspension, all the emissions stuff is still there, I also have 24lb injectors, a high flow fuel pump, custom prom and a built 700r4 tranny. That about does it.

 

What were your O2s, spark advance, and knock retard looking like during the runs?

You have a custom chip, so I'm assuming you are able to capture ALDL data. If you want to post your capture files that'll help diagnose what's going on.

 

I have no clue what the reading are. I don't have the tools to capture that data. What do people usually use to watch all of there readings, I know I could get a lap-top but that really isn't in my budget, are there any cheeper options that are worth the money? The car runs and idles really good, it has good throttle response at any rpm and it pulls smooth through the rpm's untill you hit the tpi wall. I am thinking that I should do some suspension stuff next because I couldn't hook up for the life of me today, but I don't know what will give me the best bang for the buck.

Thanks

 

Well, your horsepower and torque seems pretty healthy. But man..get some headers! You'll see a huge gain especially with a large motor like a 383.

And I agree, get some nice tires and suspension work and you'll be hitting 13's all day long

 

You'd definitely benefit from a set of headers.

 

What I'd like to know is how you got traction. a 383 with a TPI setup must have monster torque. that, plus your stock suspension, and a freezing cold track don't help. were you running street tires? My first suggestion is sticky tires. on a cold day like that, you'd need to heat your tires up real good, but it doesn't work the same way with street radial tires, they're not meant to be heated up. My opinion would be for you to get drag radials, as ET Streets or drag slicks might(maybe) be too sticky, and I'd be afraid of breaking that 9bolt and your trans.

 

Was everybody else running slower than they expected also? As was mentioned it could have been the cold track.

 

I was on regular radial tires and I did try to heat them up even though I know that radials don't really gain anything from that. One of my freinds that I went with was driving his 2wd quad-cab Dakota w/4.7 and he was getting his usual times but I heard from some people that they were running slower because of traction. I was thinking about getting some BFG or Nitto drag-radials because I need somthing that I can drive to the track (45min drive). I shouldn't have to worry about breaking the tranny since that already has been built but I still have the stock 9-bolt rear-end, but I have heard of people running 11s on that rear-end in TTA's.

Thanks for all the replies

 

You rear will last as long as you don't hook hard, but as soon as you throw a set of slicks on, you can expect to wave bye bye to it after a couple passes.

 

I understand that most people are on a budget, but dont expect to build a forged 383 (in which you probably put a larger cam into), and go fast by slapping on the STOCK intake, relatively STOCK heads (but they probably don't flow any better than stock), STOCK throttlebody, STOCK exhaust manifolds, and STOCK cats (eliminate/flange them). You have CRIPPLED your motor with these puny pieces and am now running slower than I ran STOCK, due to the gross mismatch of parts. Its like having Micheal Johnson run the 400m while having him breathe in and out through a coffee straw.

All is not lost, however, as there is PLENTY on information on this website at your disposal to help you properly match your heads/intake/cam/exhaust to your motor's full potential. I cannot STRESS enough how important it is to do your homework when putting together a new combination. You haven't had much help so far because many people on this board are tired of answering the same questions over and over again. If you have any respect for other peoples time, then in the future, please only ask questions that are not answered elsewhere on this site.

Back to the soloution: You mentioned earlier that you had $3500 to spend if you needed to - GREAT! You should be able to afford top quality parts (MATCHED heads/cam/intake/exhaust) with that kind of scratch. If not, then drive your car as is until you CAN afford it, and it will be worth the wait - just dont expect to be fast and frustrate yourself over something so easily fixed.

Most importantly, hang in there! I dont think you threw all that money in your car just to wuss out and buy a 2002 model.

 

Ditto.
That 383 is probably running out of breath by the time it hits its powerband.

 

whats up man.... where in wi are you from...

 

I live in Waukesha, I was just in Milwaukee Friday night for some street races but the cops were out so that didn't last too long. What kind of car do you drive?

 

your 60 ft times are whats hurting you. when you overcome your traction problems you will really realize the scope of the mods you've done. your car should kick butt. and judgeing by your posts it does on the street. driving on the track is a learning experience. i raced for 3 seasons before i even got through the first round of eliminations. once i got the hang of it i started bringing home trophies and money. our cars take a bit of practice to get them to hook on the track, once you do though-you'll be impressed- and proud!-mike

 

smkngta..I live in south milwaukee

i got 89' IROC.. MILD 305...EDELBROCK TES..FLOWMASTER...SLP RUNNERS..PORTED PLENUM

 

your stroker is like a fat man running, breathing thru a straw.

 

I won't argue that that isn't a great 60', but the fact that he only trapped 96 indicates the motor is being choked. I trapped 102, and mine isn't running anywhere near right. As a matter of fact is was locked in BLM cell 4 when I ran it that time. You need to take the corks off, let that bad boy breath!!

 

I agree with JAY87GTA, the 96-97 mph is a key indication that motor is not making the power it could be. Even if the 60ft time were improved, you still won't trap too much more MPH on the motor without waking it up.

 

YA I'LL AGREE TO THAT TO...CAUSE I WANNA SEE YOUR CAR AT THE GROVE WHEN ITS DONE!!!

 

I just ordered some BFG drag radials tonight. So, hopfully that will improve my 60ft times. I am also thinking about some lower control arm relocation brackets, but I am waiting for a responce from Spohn on those, and I also want to get some sub-frame connectors. I know they don't help with traction really but I have t-tops so I need them.

Thanks for all of the responces guy's

 

JAKEDPLAYA- I will be going down to the grove again on May 2nd maybe I'll see ya there if you come down.

 

I don't know about the Bfg's but I know for a fact the Nitto's kick butt. My 99 z28 Ls1 auto. runs 1.7's 60ft and 11.72 with the nitto drag radials. Let us know how the Bfg's work out.

 

Yeah, I will let you know how they hook. I am hoping to run at least in the low 1.8's 60ft. I have heard that they hook up a little better than the Nitto's but they don't last as long. Does anyone have the BFG DR's that could tell me how long they last and what PSI do you run at the track and on the street? If I get 2,000 miles out of them with street and track driving I will be very happy. I was on BFG's site and it said that a car has ran in the 8's on their DR's so I think they should work really well for me.

Thanks

 

well you should be able to get into the 13's because i had almost excat dyno numbers as you (258rwhp, 377 rwtq), on my old 350 setup, and the best i ran was a 13.321 at 102 on a 1.84 60', with 3.45 gears, stock tpi, and edlebrock headers. I was using a crane cams compucam 2032, and i know if i changed the intake to a superram it would have been close to 12.9 in the 1/4. later

 

GET HEADERS. I dont care if you have 10.5 drag slicks... your not getting out of the 14's without them. I see alot of bull**** floating around this thread, and it needs to be straightened out...

Your only trapping in at 95 or 96, which is only good for a mi, maybe low 14 second run roughly. 60's are no concern at this point. MPH is an indicator of how strong your engine is running, and from whats posted, its not good at all. My 305 Lb9 is going 14.51@ 98 mph with consistant 2.3 60's (tires are dead) with basically headers, exhaust, and prom...

Forget the suspension mods for now, get headers and a good 3" cat/cat-back, port your plenum, fabricate a CAI, aftermarket runners wouldnt hurt either.

To sum it up, your engine is choking to death, and hooking up at the track will not get you the proper results. Get it running right, then worry about traction.

 

88 WS6 TransAm GTA- So you think that headers would make that big of a difference. I know they will make a difference but I really don't have the $$ to do that right now unless I sell my winter car which I need. I was thinking that 1 3/4" LT headers would give me 20-25rwhp on my setup if I took the cats off at the same time and about another 2-3mph in the 1/4, what do you think?

Thanks

 

for the $1000 you said you had to spend, I would get some headers. I know I am going get flamed for this one, but for themoney, the Edelbrock ones are not that bad, check e-bay for prices. If you sell the beater, invest in heads. AFR or similar. 195s should work well for your motor.

Secondly, the stock TPI setup is horrible for larger cubic motors, The porting of your plenum will only cost you time and the proce of gaskets. The manifold base is a real killer also. I would try to score an accel or edelbrock base and maybe runners if money allows.

The post before was very correct about the fat man running with a straw to breathe through.

I ran into a very similar problem. I have a solid roller 406 with a miniram and was running through SLP 1 3/4" headers into a single 3" cat. That was CHOKING the motor. I was pulling 1.6x 60' times but only running 12.2 @ 111.

Remember the motor is a wind pump, and will only work as well as you let it.

good luck

 

I would say you would gain atleast a half second in the 1/4. Yeah, that much. Why? Well, you have a big CI motor, running through stock manifolds. Ive seen some stock Lb9's gain 2-4 10ths in the 1/4 just from headers and exhaust, and thats on a stock 305. Just think how much more the 383 needs to breath.

Secondly, the free flowing headers and cat back will take away a bit of that low end grunt, helping with traction issues, and putting that power up higher where you need it.

Now, Edelbrock headers are the cheapest, and arent all that bad. I have them and really dont have any complaints. Only problem is that they are 1 5/8 tubes. For a 383, 1 1/4 would be best, but then again your running stock heads so the 1 5/8 should do for now.

From Jegs: Edelbrock TES, 350-6872 86-90
Camaro/Firebird 5.0L/5.7L TPI for 3'' slip-on single cat.
$321.99

Add a catback of your choice for $200-300, and a Dynamax 3" highflow cat for $130

So for under $700 you have a full exhaust capable of handling all that your engine can put through it. Even better, keep a watch on the classified board here on TGO, you can always find headers for a great price!

Good luck!

 

A wind pump, i gotta remember that one.

 

a stock TPI setup on a stock L98 will fall on it's face at 5500 RPMs. with a 383, it would fall flat on it's face at what? 4500 RPMs? TPI was made for a 305. adding the exhaust without adding the intake won't make a giant change. change the intake, heads, and exhaust and it will scream.

long tube runners plus long stroke is major torque. use it. get traction, and shift early.

(if you didn't have enough power to spin the tires, I'd tell you to get the headers and intake first)

 

Thanks for all of the help guys, I really apreciate it.

FastBird- Did you get a better flowing exhaust yet? I want to see what that beast will run.

I want to get Hooker LT 1 3/4" from jet-hot, they are going to cost me $600 to my door. I don't want to buy headers twice, I want to do it right the first time. I have true dual exhaust right now. Instead of having the y-pipe right after the cats I just have seperate pipes. I don't like the way it sounds so I am going to either buy a hooker catback or save up for a mufflex exhaust.

My engine starts to die off at around 45-4700rpm and it making no power over 5200rpm, so I don't know if I would really gain anything from the headers if I didn't do an intake at the same time. I don't want to put any money into the intake untill I have enough to buy a miniram.

Thanks again guys

 

Cant go wrong with Hooker LT's either. Awsome headers. 2 cheap things I would also recommend is a cold air intake, fabricat your own for about $30. Also, some aftermarket runners. SLP's are by far the cheapest, and you can port the **** out of em which will help on your top end as well.

Ultimatley though, the Holley Stealth Ram would be the ultimate in performance and affordability for you. In reality, I would holf off on the runners and save about $300 more for the HSR.

And dont worry, you WILL benefit from any headers you decide to go with.

 

I already took the stock air-box off and I put a K&N cone on. I looked at the intake that slp sells and it looks like the stock one that I already have with a cone. Am I right?

I was thinking about some runners but I really want a miniram. I considered the stealthram but I don't want to cut the hood and I really want the car to screem on the top-end, I can make up for the lowend torque loss with some gears and a nice stall. I still haven't seen a dyno of a stealthram on a built engine, I think I'll do a search and see what I can find, if it make good power to atleast 6500rpm I will seriously consider it, even if I have to cut the hood.

thanks

 

the stealthram was made for high-RPM horsepower. it's basically a dual-quad intake converted to fuel injection. I'm currently putting one on my car. it just plain looks mean. I think it's about half the price of a miniram. I thought minirams went for about $1,000? the stealthram with fuel rails, and adjustable fuel pressure regulator is just under 500 to your door. I don't think either of them is smog legal.

 

1 3/4" headers, Miniram - all good. Now you need heads. I would look at the Pro Topline Iron Lightnings for a good head that flows well and don't cost an arm & a leg. Going fast shouldn't mean: to the poor house.

 

OK i need to clarify a few things here.

I did get a better exhaust for the car, but I found out that it ran 12.2 @ 111 because of the sub-par exhaust AND the intake lifter on the #7 cylinder crushed itself...so the car was running on 7 cylinders!

I went with Hooker Super Comp 1 3/4" full length headers, jet hot coated; Mufflex y-pipe (dual 3" into single 4") and then into a mufflex 4" cat back exhaust.

While the motor was apart for the lifter problem, switched to AFR 210 heads from the World Products Sportmans I had, bumped compression from 9.9:1 to 11.5:1 and chaged cams. Old cam was 242/250 @ 0.050" on a 114 with 657/600 lift. The new cam is 248/248 on a 110 with 615/615 lift.

I will post results as soon as I get the motor tuned and taken to the track over in the Drag Racing Forum.

The miniram is a good idea but make sure you get the version you need. They offer in 1204,1205 or 1206 intake port sizes. I had the 1205 and had to have aluinum welded to the intake and then ported to fir my AFR 210's.

Good luck with the project.

 

Actually, TPIS now makes a 1207 version too. But I do agree that it is best to get the Miniram port sized to the head you plan to use. Unfortunately, the head & Miniram port size that is good for a 350 is not necessarily the same head/Miniram combo you would want for a 400 (or vice versa).

I was caught with that decision on my 350 and decided that it was better to go with a smaller Miniram that is more optimal for my 350. And when/if I get a bigger motor I will look at building the ports of the Miniram to match the heads I use then. Or just look at selling the MR I have and buy a larger version - which ever way works out cheaper (cost to modify vs. difference in selling/purchase price).

I just find that guys often make a decision on a "future bigger motor", sacrificing what they currently have, and often, they never get that "future bigger motor". Let the "future bigger motor" take care of itself when you get it. Minirams and good heads don't become worthless overnight just because they are "a little used".

 

I can vouge for the Pro Topline Iron Lightning heads. I was recommened to use these heads by my local machine shop. I'm running with their 200cc heads. I was able to get the heads (bare casting), valves, port job, and assembly for less than what a set of AFR heads cost. According to the porting guy in my area, the Iron Lightnings have very similar flow numbers as the AFR heads. I was skeptical because of the low cost but I have no complaints. My motor is making great power past 4500rpm. I know there's a lot of factors there, but I definitely saw an improvement over the stock L98 heads.

Good luck man, you'll get more power out of that motor with a little work.