after a year of thinking hard i made my final decision , i'm going to buy the zz4 crate engine for my 86 ws6 trans am ,
what do you guys think my 305 tpi motor is worth is got 23,000 original miles on it and it is mint, i will even eat off of it ,thats how clean it is, hear in canada they tell me my engine with the whole tpi setup is worth 1500 canadian , does that sound about rite guys
thanks

 

Yeah that about good, U might even be able to get 1700 for it here in canada. I also live in canada and was looking at the ZZ4. What are u payin for that engine if u dont mind me asking, and what part of canada u at.

 

sudbury ontario,
i'm hoping with the canadian dollar so high i can get the zz4 for 5000 out the door, than i need a carb ,and a fule pressure regulater

 

Have you ever thought about building an engine instead of buying one?

For that amount of money you could build a pretty stout engine...

 

lol thats a good one
i have the most original car here its got original paint , 23 ,000 mile on the dash , i don;t want to pull a mint 305 tpi out to put a piece of **** in there, i will pay the 5k for the engine
355 hp 405 tourqe is a good start for a third gen car

 

dude if you have the skills to yank and engine, put another one in and get it running then you have enough skills to build one from the ground up.....

hell its really all about measurments.......

clearences, troque specs, it's just all measurments that have to be obtained, and is very easy to do......

 

roflmao. I'm sorry, but this coming from a guy who's been talking about his bad *** engine for better than a year and yet probably has less than 500 miles on it, as well as probably 15+ posts with all kinds of problems just kills me.

There's no shame in admitting you don't want to mess with building an engine yourself. And as badgta will attest, rarely does your first build work out remotely close to how it was planned.

BTW, as for what a 305 is worth, you'd be LUCKY to get $100 for one in the US. 305s are a dime a dozen, i know people that have paid a few bucks to have someone get it out of their garage.

 

I have to agree with Ed... on a few of his various topics... but one in particular. I can't seem to give away a very stout 350 shortblock from my old 84. How are you expecting to get more than a few dollars (Canadian or US) for a 305? No matter what the condition, it is still a POS 305.

 

i don;t really care
i'll keep the 305 tpi stored in my garage , i;ll use it in a truck later on,
also i seen alot of thirdgens in my day and 90 % ARE JUNK ,and i been to some big car shoes ,i been to st ignace show, and not bragging but my car is the best third gen out there, i really don't care what anyone says about the 305 tpi being junk , in its day it was respectable,
also you guys telling me i should rebuild someone elses garbage engines is far feched , money is no issue here , you want something good you pay for it, i wish all third geners were like me and take pride in there cars instead of throwing junk in there and say they have nice cars,

and for ed i was reading your post on your 305 running 14.1 i find that hard to believe, with stock heads and cam ,

 

Well, that was quite the worthless read. You may have a nice thirdgen, and you damn well ought to with 23,000 miles. Come back to us when you have another 100,000 like many of the rest of us. Garbage engines? Why are they garbage engines? Because the casting is not brand new? and if money isn't an issue? Why only a ZZ4?

Your post was very ignorant and rather childish. Not all responses you will have will be friendly, and people like Ed are very upfront, but many times comes with good meaning.

Final words, if money isn't the issue, go for the ZZ4... I could careless. I'm a person who aims to get what they pay for, and not ripped off. I will build an engine, and if I don't know how, I will learn, so that when it comes time for a rebuild or if I choose to do something, I won't have a problem in doing so.

And yes, Ed probably really did run a 14.1. While Ed's car is a good running 305, never judge a car by the ET, but more so the trap speed.

 

Oh, and I don't believe you have the most original here, I know there is a Black 85 IROC with around 5700 miles on the clock, and a few others that are very low. But yours is probably very clean and original.

 

i;m not bragging here,
just making a point, man i love 3 gens , they are the best looking cars on the road, i just hate people abusing them , there is alot of junk on the road, if i could i would blow them all up ,so there are just the nice ones driving around,
i guess the reason for the 90 % junk 3 gens is because of young kids owning them , i will never put down anyone car but there are very few nice ones around, all are cars need is a little *****
than i will be very happy man

 

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just asking not to have an ignorant outlook on others. Not everyone can afford a 23,000 mile thirdgen. Many have to settle for high mileage ones and work on them. When I first purchased mine I had 126,000 miles. But many people here believe my car is excellent looking, both on this board and locally. But I don't look down on others, I know it takes time and money. No reason to stereotype people as well, such as the comment about young people. I just turned 20, and have owned the car since 16.

I agree our cars do need a little more, but I guess that all depends on how much more you want. To me, a ZZ4 wouldn't be near enough, especially for the price. I believe I could easily build one for cheaper, and make more power, but this just may be an opinion.

Like I said, if money isn't a problem, go for the ZZ4. It's a good crate engine, and ought to last awhile. Heads are great, and the bottom end is strong. Out to last your car along time.

 

You See this car? Right now on the odometer it reads a measly 181k. Yea, that is alot. I have a stock lower-end and rebuilt, port n'/ polished FACTORY heads. My tranny may be going to crap, but for this many miles, running high 13's and lower 14's is nothing to be ashamed of. I only have a TBI, which is way worse stock than the TPI, Which is why im getting a TPI setup for free in the next week, but I still manage to pull 250-260hp out of a stock hp rated 175 hp engine, without touching the lower-end. It is all about the builder. All these posters are right, if your a good builder and you have the know-how, then it is capable to have a 350 pushing 450hp and 500tq with less than 5grand spent. It is all about you. I just wanted to let you know that. Oh, and Im only 17 years old, and my car doesnt look bad at all, does it? There are alot of kids driving 3rd gens out there, but if you stop and talk to them, youll find that 60% wish they had the money to buy or fix up their rids to make them look like ours. All I wanted to say was, get the whole story before you judge someone. Im not trying to start a brawl, its just that this is one thing that really upsets me about people.
Later
Andy

 

Why are you converting a Tuned-port into a carbed car?

If you like your car so-much why put back into the stoneage?

Put the TPI setup on the ZZ4 or get an aftermarket setup like the miniram or the superram or heck, get the GMPP Ramjet 350.

tj

 

There are a lot of 305 bashers around here. There are also a lot of guys with 350's running 14's. Wouldn't they be ashamed when they got beat by a 305 running 13's with nothing but bolton mods, stock heads, stock cam. I'm not trying to attack any 350 guys because the 350 CAN be a strong motor but so can the 305. People say that for the cost of getting a 305 into the 13's you can put a 350 in and put less mods on it to get it into the 13's. Well I have about 2000 in mods I have went from 15.4 to 13.7. No bad if I have to say so myself. All I am asking is for people to layoff the 305 because not all 305's are built equally. Maybe for 305's with the peanut cam it might be worth the change to the 350 but unless I blow this 305 up, I'm not changing it.

 

i'm not here to bash the 305 , i love my 305 , i wish it had some ***** , what discourages me is lastnight coming back from the car show in sudbury a z24 5speed pulls next to me and pretty much stays with me, thats inbarassing , i no a good cam , and ported heads on the tpi will wake it up but is it really worth the extra 65 hp, when you spend a little more for a better engine,

i wish i can get my 305 to run even in the mid 14;s but where i am now its not even close, my g-tech times are 15.9 -16.00 all the time
sorry for pissing everyone off

 

There are 305 bashers, but for good reasons. It's because of the bore on the 305. 13.70 for a 305 isn't bad at all, and yea, It'll beat some 350s. But the reason still exists.... why? For 2000 dollars you could be going much quicker. Please don't understand me, I'm not suggesting you buy a 350. If building a 305 is your thing, than by all means, continue to do so. But when you recommend a budget build up with as much performance as you can get... don't suggest the 305. Because the 350 will easily beat it. Cubes are some of the cheapest improvements to power that you can do.

 

Apology accepted on pissing everyone off. All I'm asking is for a question to be answered. Why don't you build your own, save money, and possibly build a better (in terms of power) engine?

If your fear is of building engines, or you don't have the time, I can't argue. If either is true though, you may regret it, as it's a very good learning experience. It'll help you alot.

 

I completely agree with this. I would not recommend anyone replace a 305 with a 305. I don't think there is anyway that I could have spent $2000 and made it run 13's. I would have spent that much on the motor and probably the catback. By all means, if you have to replace a motor, put a 350 in.

 

but its tpi. around here junk yards etc charge like 700 for a 350tpi and like 500 for a 305 tpi. and if it was just a carb motor. the price is like 1/2 that.

 

my friend joe runs a best of 13.9 and a best mph of 100. on a stock motor. 305 :hail: and hes got all the time slips if you "cant beleive that"

 

don't even get a smart mouth ed........ yeah, i have had my probs, but for the main part is was scats fault...... and if it weren't for scats ****ty deburring thn that sob would still be thumpin......... i don't care one bit to admit it's down, but i will go right back through it and do everything that is nessesary to make it right...... under normal circumstances, that motor would have been fine if it wasn't for scat, thats why flatlander is paying to have the crank turned and sending me new bearings for it..... but hey you guys tried to warn me about scat, i'll give you that one.... but don't come in here and smart off, it just shows what certain people have been pointing out as of late......

if that boy can buy a longblock, get the valves adjusted correctly, the rest done correctly, and gets it running himself, then he has the skills to to a ground up build if he follows instructions correctly, wether you belive it or not.......

 

Whatever, i'm not 'smarting off'. I'm pointing out the obvious. If building an engine was as easy as you claim, you'd be driving yours right now. Excuses are like as<x>sho<x>les, everybody has one. In your case, i guess you didn't measure right before you put it together, which is hella ironic considering:

It's not scat's fault that YOU didn't take the MEASUREMENTS. Guess it's harder than it seems, eh? So maybe dropping 3k on an engine that can run 12s out of the box isn't such a bad deal after all. Sure beats the hell out of piecing together a junk bottom end for a few pennies less, just to NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO DRIVE IT.

Apparently putting an engine together is just above some people's heads. You'd think the poster child for 'unforseen' problems would give advice that reflects as much.

Hey, it's not about what 'I' believe. I know building an engine isn't rocket science. But i also know how easy it is to screw up, and thus why i don't go around telling people to skip crate motors and do it themself.

 

By the way, from our classifieds, https://www.thirdgen.org/classifieds...tgo?adid=19972



Apparently, building an engine is so easy that it will inspire you to sell the car so that somoene else can deal with your screw-ups. Then you can go out and buy a faster car to start with and save yourself loads of trouble.

 

the clearences where right on... there where burrs left in the oiling hole by scat that broke off and found their way into the engine........ how do i know this? after inspection we found burrs in the oiling holes that were ready to break off, but where still slightly attached to the crank.....

and if i were to have sold it, then it would have came ready to reassemble, with everything taken care of, and ready to go..... hell i am going to redo it, and if someone decideds they want to buy it then fine.... i want somthing different.....

hell all i said is i think he would have enough skills to do up the bottom end..... if ya set your mind to it then you can, and i feel that this paticular person would be able to do that..... then here you come with little snide comments as usual........ i just cannot figure out why they let you get away with it...... oh well.....

 

Had some of these posts been left on one of the boards I moderate, I would have ended it on your comments alone Ed. There's something to be said for making fun and gentle ribbing, but name calling and putting someone down for a slight oversight that cost them another engine rebuild is uncalled for. You've never had problems Ed? A little search of the archives tells us you've had problems with something as simple as gauge face installation... How do we proceed?

 

Major PMS's on this board... and from a Mod too! hehe its ok. The ZZ4 is a good idea to expand you into the lower teens. I have seen a lot of poeple go that route. Building your own engine all by yourself with no prior knowlage is dumb, and since you want a pain free engine, the ZZ4 will do just fine. On a lighter note... Im at work and am very tired.... i wish lunch would come faster so i can go home and take a quick nap. Good luck on your engine swap.
Alex

 

Wait a second. Why don't you show me where i called someone a name here?

I'm not putting him down for trying, or for making mistakes. I'm calling him on the fact that it is not as easy as he claims. As a beginner, i'd think his story would be more like 'the basics of building an engine are easy, but the details will kill you. I don't blame you for wanting a crate engine after the trouble i have seen'. Instead it's easy? So easy that you'd rather sell the car then finish it out. Sorry, but if that doesn't stink to you, then you must not have a nose.

And of course everybody has problems. But don't talk about how easy they are to get past if you have never passed them yourself.

BTW, the white face guage comment makes no sense, i think you're reaching there. The only 'problem' i ran into was when i dropped the cluster and broke the trip odo stick off. The job itself was under an hour. Actually, i did it twice since i had a bad contact the first time it went back in, so i pulled the cluster, cleaned and rebent all the contacts.

 

Does this ring a bell? "the poster child for 'unforseen' problems "

Nope, no nose here. It sounds like it was an easy task to rebuild his engine aside from the fact that he missed a few burs in the oiling holes. Guess nobody should look for burs or check clearances on GM's crate engines either before they put them in, eh?

Which part are you talking about? Building engines? Heheheheheh, if you only knew... Yes, I overcammed my little 305, but I also have built a 510 WHP 420 in stroker for the '70 vette I had, as well as built a 500 WHP 480 in Pontiac stroker for the second gen 77 TA I had. If you're tlaking about gauges, then that's even funnier because I was an auto-electronics installer for 3 years before turning to telecommunications.

Yes, it was a reach there. It took all of a few seconds to search for your user name and "problems" subject and that's the first post I came across. I'm sorry my obscure reference to poking fun at your problems was unrelated to this engine discussion, I'm just not as good at it as you are I guess. :hail:

This is getting boring. I'll stop now if you will.

 

I hardly think 'poster child for unforeseen problems' is calling someone names. Especially given that he has had A LOT more problems than poor deburring of the oiling passages or whatever the latest problem is. Believe me, there are more complete / direct ways to describe the things he has gone through, i thought i was being nice there actually.


As for GM crate engines, actually no i wouldn't expect you to need to do much more than maybe check the valves. Kinda the point of buying an assembled long block.


The other thing about everybody having problems was just pointing out the irony / hypocrisy of badgta's post. He says building an engine is easy, yet his project turned into such a basket case that he wants it gone. If you got the idea that the only problem is the deburring, you're WAY off. He has been posting about different problems keeping it off the road for months now. I can see how your perspective would be skewed if i was picking on him for one thing, but i'm not. NOTHING about badgta's engine build-up went well, at least as far as his postings here reflect.


But sure i can drop it. My whole / only intention here was trying to make the point there is no shame in admitting you don't want hassles and buying a crate engine. Even with the shabby vette heads on it, a ZZ4 is a pretty good deal, with the right tune you could go 105+ and 12s with it. That's faster then most backyard budget build-ups will ever go, including cars done with top name parts that should go a lot faster.

 

lmao @ yall bickerin like a bunch of schoolgirls lol


its your choice dude..like these guys said..building a motor in itself isnt that hard...its the details that will get you every time

like me for example

"when installing the piston into the bores make sure the ring gaps are atleast 90 degrees from one another"

...8 pisonts in 8 out...8 back in..,,the details man the details

 

just got back from my local goodwrench dealers,
they want 7000 canadian out the door for the zz4 engine ,there nuts, i wonder if i can order one threw the us, i seen them going for 3700 out the door thats about 5100 canadian , i got an ok price on the new 350 ho with 350 hp they call it circle track racing, this is the number 88958602 the price was 5400 out the door canadian price

if any one here no's a place that will sell the engines cheaper please let me no ,

thanks

 

i never said building one was easy, i said obtaining measurments was easy..... you know i bet anything that basket case eninge would have still handed you your *** even with it down like it did..

i simply told him that if he could go through and get an engine running from a longblock up then building a shortblock wouldn't be that much harder...... if you have enough skills to dit down, and set the valves correctly, get the timing perfect, get it running to a factory spec, and hookback up all the fi, then you have enough skills to build a bottom end.....

oh but i'm sorry to challenge you great and powerful wisdom ed...... true you have more knowledge in certian area than most could ever dream of, but it's no good if your a pure *** to everyone........ yes i have had my bad luck, but i am going back through it and make it right..... no one said he wouldn't run into problems, but isn't that whats this place is for? it's just pathetic the way you treat people anymore here.....