formul8!!

What aftermarket ignition are you running? Please post any gains in power and mileage and reliability.

Thanks!

D Stroy H8

I have a stock HEI distributor with Accell cap & rotor, and accell 8.8mm wires, stock AC delco spark plugs.

Well... hard to say if I gained anything over new stock stuff, because the stuff I replaced was badly worn & corroded. However, after the swap from the worn out OEM stuff to the Accell components and new plugs I gained roughly half of a second in the quarter mile. This stuff was really worn tho!

shaggy56

This is from a respected race car engine builder. I thought what he has to say interesting.


"Q: When do I need an after market ignition system?

A: Probably never! All of the after market ignition companies claim that you'll get more horsepower by using their ignition system. I hate to burst bubbles but the fact is, numerous independent dyno studies have shown no gain what so ever! Don't get me wrong. I like a lot of after market ignitions and my own blown and nitroused car uses one as well. The object of the game is to ignite the cylinder. Once the cylinder is lit, it's lit. It either fires or it doesn't. I can't tell you how many racers and street buffs I know that have small fortunes invested in their ignition systems when GM's stock HEI system would have done the same job... if not better! Ford has the worst stock (electronic) ignitions systems. Their factory modules stink. They have the least amount of dwell time and the most expensive price. Chrylser has a great module that will saturate the heck out of the coil, causing a big spark. A neat trick is to use a Chrysler module on a Ford engine. It really wakes-up the coil. I can't tell you how many people say that you can't run an HEI distributor an a high performance engine because they "sputter" after 6,000 RPM. Say that to our Super Gasser that runs 9.90's all day long and goes through the lights at almost 8,000 RPM without a glitch. I took that MSD 7AL2 box, billet distributor and funky coil and trashed 'em because they were doing strange things and dropping cylinders when the car came-off the trans brake at 6,500RPM. I've had people come-up and say "hey, you can't run an HEI distributor at those RPM's", as they watch the car go down the track without a glitch! You can't check those elaborate ignition systems and when they need fixing, you've either got to send them back and wait 2 weeks or spend a fortune on a new one. I've built street cars that run 11's and 12's using HEI ignitions and stock Ford distributors using Chrysler modules, and when you hear one of those engines wound-up to 8,000 RPM without a sputter you'll be a believer. "

Sickness91Z28

iTrader: (1)

I seriously didn't tell a difference when I installed my MSD-6A Ignition....I'm still going to change my distributor cap coil though....

david roush

iTrader: (1)

Found this somewhere on here before ......Dyno results with MSD Ignition and coil......http://www.corvetteforum.net/c3/zwed.../dynotests.htm

shaggy56

The question is what was the conditon of the stock parts. Everyone usually upgrades after usually a worn system. So then you would assume gains.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Listen to the man .....he is telling you facts!

ULTM8Z

My ignition system is a bone stock Corvette ignition. Stock wires, plugs, cap, coil, rotor, module, etc. It runs great the way it is.

88305tpiT/A

iTrader: (2)

I like the 300+ I have and plan to use the 375+ for spray or a s/c. all in all it was the cheapest ignition system to offer multistrike CD technology with the upgradability to handle boost and spray retard.

I did notice a difference up top when I swiched over. now I have a mix and match of MSD and Accel. (MSD dissy and coil, Accel 300+ box). I didnt notice a huge diffenence except starting and high RPM.

TPI-Formula350-

MSD 8.5 wires and blaster coil. no real performance gain just wanted to use quality parts when doing a tune up

a73camaro

Good site with the back to back testing. I've always figured that airfoil would do something.

I have a MSD-7 on a 14-1 compression engine. At best, the car picked up a 1/10 in the 1/4 mile, but the car fires up way quicker. With "stock" ignition, it took a good 3-5 seconds to get the engine to lite cold. But with the MSD, it lites under 1/2 second of cranking.

And since this is in a drag car with no alternator, the less engine cranking time, the better.

bigals87z28

Why not put the max volts to the plug?

11sORbust

Aftermarket ignitions will increase power. Dyno's are only one way to measure power. The real way to measure power gains is timed runs. Dyno pulls are just in one gear(or w/o chassis,drivetrain) . Each gear puts different load on the engine. The dyno cannot measure 0-60mph or 0-120mph gains(all the gears).

Then you have the issue of mass produced stock ignition parts. Since the production is so high there is allowable tolerances. These will natually going to be more than an aftermarket ignition. So the aftermarket ignition will be more consistant product. Not to mention the parts/design is more advanced that 80's electronics. (weak point but very true...)

Back to the "independent dyno test". It doesn't even measure emissions and fuel consumption.

I agree that stock distributors will rev. That's if you index the rotor,ect..

shaggy56

I would like to see one untainted dyno result. Of course it will have to be done with totally brand new stock components as well as aftermarket ones. NOT old stock parts that have been on the car for ten years. I mean new ignition module, coil, and all ignition related parts.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

shaggy56

ditto

11sORbust

Sorry,let me clarify. They will increase power on race type engines. I agree that the stock hei has one hell of a spark. But go check engines running 7-11 seconds in the 1/4 mile

I think dyno don needs to get to the track. You can ask 87_t/a that dyno results are not the "final word". I can tune a ecm to perform on a dyno extremely well. Then go to the track and gain more by tuning the ecm for timed runs. Then go back to the dyno and sometimes the car will dyno lower with the track tuned ecm. So independent dyno test means little to me. I do my own dyno and track testing/tuning

Doctor J

FWIW, I dug up as much engineering data as I could find on the GM HEI designs, for an ignition project I did a year ago. A summary of that info was saved here if anyone is interested:

http://www.corvetteforum.net/c4/doctorj/heicoilinfo.htm

While I haven't bench tested all the components discussed, the data presented is generally supported by my measurements to date, and by what I have found in Delphi's technical literature.

shaggy56

Sure got quiet.
:lala:

TunedPort 335

Full MSD ignition here.

MSD 6AL, Superconductor wires, MSD Cap & rotor, MSD blaster coil. 670 miles on it all, works awesome, great reliabillity so far. And I love the rev limiter feature, I don't hafta worry at all about over revving .

formul8!!

Great info Dr.J!!!

I currently have the stock distributor, MSD blaster 2 replacement external HEI coil, Accel cap/rotor, MSD 8.5mm wires and Bosch platinum.

Sounds like what I have is more than adequate! Maybe a new distributor if I rebuild the motor, but so far looks good.

Ricktpi

MSD Crank Trigger
Holley C950 ECU
MSD 6A
MSD Blaster 2 Coil
MSD Crank Trigger Distributor
MSD Spiral Core Wires
Accel Plugs

All the stock ignition stuff is gone.

TKOPerformance

I've had bad luck with 2 MSD 6AL boxes dying on two different cars. I've also run a 6A for years on a 5.0 with no problems. The factory system has a 6,250RPM rev limiter, so I deemed the 6AL unecessary and have had nothing but good results with the 6A. Before I installed the box I had spark scatter above 3,500 RPM, which is a common Ford problem. Once I added the 6A the problem went away.

My Camaro runs a stock HEI with high quality Borg/Warner tune up parts (cap, rotor, and module). I've run HEIs in several other vehilces and rarely had a problem with a stock one, except that the pickup coils usually burn up at about 110,000 miles or so. Install a new coil and it's good to go for another 100K.

I also had a Crane Hi-6 (the original one they built) die on me in my Blazer.

I think there is a lot to be gained just in mileage, driveability, and ability to sneak past emissions tests with a good aftermarket ignition. I never install an ignition expecting to gain power, though they do seem to add some. They make the engine more efficient, and there is always power to be gained in efficiency. Also, aftermarket boxes give you features like timing retards and rev limiters, especially the newer digital ones. On a lot of applications these are essential.

Saying that the ignition either fires or it doesn't is pretty foolish. Woudl you rather start a fire with flint and steel or a blowtorch? They ultimately accomplish the same thing, but one is a lot more efficient at it.

shaggy56

"flint and steel or a blowtorch"

So your basically comparing a stock unit to an aftermarket with this reference. You really should read more carefully and see what the differences are instead of making way off comparisons. In any case for the price we can agree that the aftermarket system is a waste of money in the increase in performance area even if we gain one or two points. As far as reliability and effectiveness I still have more confidence in the GM stock ignition and have the feeling it wont blow my account everytime it breaks which seems to be more common with aftermarket versions. As far as timing retards and rev limiters I burn my own chips so i have full control of that as well and just about every other control in the system I choose to make.

Kingtal0n

What I love about MSD is you can buy people old and ruined broken MSD boxs or distribs or whatever real cheap, then send it to MSD who fixes it or replaces it for nearly nothing and then you can sell it on Ebay for nearly full price!

I found my last 2 MSD boxs and a pro billet distributor in trashcans. I sent them to MSD for under $50 the boxs were fixed and the distributor was replaced for me. I sold all of it on ebay for $450;

so in short, your msd stuff breaks, you get it fixed super cheap. and the resell value it great so if you decide to get rid of it you can always ebay it.

TKOPerformance

The "flint & steel vs blowtorch" deal was just an analogy. Obviously the stock ignition system doesn't create a spark that is like a flint and steel, and equally obvious is the fact that an aftermarket ignition won't create a spark like a blowtorch. This was for illustration purposes.

I have done a considerable amount of research into stock and aftermarket ignition systems, and had personal experience with several types of aftermarket units as well as stock ones. I even related the problems I had with aftermarket parts.

I'm not fortunate enough to have the equipment to burn my own chips, so this isn't an affordable or realistic option for me, which is why under racing circumstances I'd probably just use parts from an aftermarket vendor.

I still stand by saying that as far as driveability improvements go the aftermarket ignitions are worth something, but I don't expect them to improve measured performance.

89Formula5.7

Stock GM PP distributor and HEI module, Accel 8.8mm wires, Bosch platinum +4 plugs. Didn't see any gains in HP, didn't expect any.