Will the Super Ram plenum and runners bolt right up to the sdpc vortec baseplate? I want to get the sdpc tpi vortec 350 crate, and am considering this intake. Would that setup flow better than a stock tpi plenum and slp runners? If it dominates the stock plenum, etc...then I'll go w/ Super Ram. Does the linkage and everything fit the same on it w/ a stock throttle body? $800 for a plenum and runners seem spicy, considering I could probably find a whole 90-92 map tpi car for $1200 and use that whole tpi intake!! lol

Any help would be kewl.

Thanks!

 

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, all I have to do is pass the sniffer for emissions, so I DO need EGR. My main goal I'd like would be around 350 rwhp. So, w/ the 359 horse sdpc tpi crate, I'd need to bump it up around 450 or so. If I'm like 320-340 rwhp, that's kewl too. I'm not going on the track or anything, just a street car that wants to dominate the folks around here

 

It will nolt bolt up out of the box.

It will perfeorm better than any LTR combo, all day long.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...=superram+bolt

 

OMINOUS: Just read the thread, seems like a lot of work. The only thing I wouldn't like doing is buying the sdpc crate, and then tearing into it to port/polish, etc...What intake are/were you running on that tpi engine? If I were to use the stock tpi from a 350, what would I be looking at? $3500 or so for the crate, then chopping into it, just doesn't seem worth it to me. If I can get close to 300 or 350 rwhp, then I'll just use the stock intake. I'm not running it at the track, just want to kill the street cars.

Thanks for the help!!

 

With a stock TPI LTR setup that SDPC engine will probably make about 280-300RWHP. The beauty of Vortec and TPI LTR is not HP... it is TORQUE. Torque is what you want for a street car and vortec heads + tpi ltr = torque.

 

Ok, w/ that horse and torque, how'd it put up to stangs, cobra's, ls1's, **** burners on the street? Around me, in the summer, etc...all these **** burner guys are around, and couple of built up stangs, stock ls1's, etc....I want to smoke these guys...keep in mind it's light to light, etc...no track type racing...

Thanks!

 

well, with that torque, you will NEED LCAs, some Et Streets, and a few other suspension upgrades to get that power to the wheels. with 300 RWHP and TPI torque (which is always high) you will be running high 12s. stangs, no problems unless they've got some good modifications, cobras, probably good runs unless they are the '03+, LS1s, stock are about all you could handle with high 12s, imports... well, the RWD ones and some of the AWD ones will give you a challenge, all the FWD junk will never see 12s without several thousands of dollars in modification and most kids (imports tend to be owned by kids) can't afford that. this is of course in a full 1/4. You'd most likely kill every cobra and stang you come across out of the hole, especially the modular motors, as well as FWD or RWD imports, modified LS1s, other camaros, and AWD cars all cut very low 60 fts. if you are racing light to light, I really suggest that you DON'T, that is not true street racing, that is a stop light drag. but if it's a 0-60 contest you want, about nothing will beat a torque monster with traction. if you want to do any kind of 1/4 mile runs or top end runs, TPI will not cut it for you and neither will focusing solely on torque. you want RPM and HP as well as mid range torque for a drag race/street thumper. TPI = truck intake IMO.

 

Yes, this upcoming summer, I plan on getting a bunch of suspension upgrades...bilstein Shocks/Struts, Spohn LCA's and Relocation brackets, Spohn Torque Arm, front end rebuild kit...Moog springs (don't want the harsh STIFFNESS of the Lowering kits), Firestone Firehawk rubber...that should make me stick any power to the ground very nicely...

Yeah, I'd like a little more power to reassure some wins...Any other mods I could do w/ TPI that would give more power? I really don't like the idea of tearin' into that new crate...the other crap, I could get from junkers, so I wouldn't mind doin' stuff to it.

ZerotosixtyV8: Were you giving that rating considering headers, exhaust, slp runners, etc. etc.? Basically at max w/ that engine and tpi, what would I be looking at getting? What are the "reasonable" mods I could do to boost the 300 rwhp by a little ways?

Thanks again for the help.

 

You might want to look into a differnet crate motor and a different intake.

There is no way in hell the SDPC Vortec crate with any LTR setup will put down 300rwhp.

Aint gonna happen.

 

Well, I don't know who to believe...some people said it's very possible, others say no. I want to spend about the same money for the sdpc vortec, possibly very little more. I need to be 100% Emissions legal (sniffer only). I have a '90 Firebird w/ a 3.1 mpfi now. I want a direct bolt on w/ the less hassel the better. I picked the Vortec tpi b/c it's basically the L98 w/ Vortec Heads, better cam, etc. Plus, w/ TPI, my wiring can all stay intact, and I won't have to gut so much, etc. If there is a better solution, please let me know, but so far, I'm getting misdirection from a lot of people. I'd like to stay Fuel Injection too, as I'd be more likely to pass emissions, plus, my wiring is already there.

Thanks

 

So right now you have a V6 car?

Have you already converted over to a TPI wiring harness and ECM?

 

I havn't converted over yet, but it'd be pretty easy to do it. I already have a 7730 ecm, so all I'd need is the chip. Not many other cost effective/fuel injected ways to do this setup I'm thinking....

 

I don't know about LT1's, etc....I don't want to be notching in my K-Member and all that stuff...plus, I don't know where to get a brand new LT1 motor, or LT4, etc...Also, how would the wiring route on that? Same setup? ECM on passanger kick, wiring through the fender, then distribute accordingly? Engine bolt up the same as a L98? Would it use the same Trans, or would it need a 4LE? I want to stick w/ Automatic. I'm grasping at straws as there arn't many ways that would bolt up as easy as the tpi crate (l98 block) I'm assuming.

 

Its like this my brotha, if you are really hung up on rwhp results the LTR setup will most likely leave you dissapointed.

 

Ok, well, what's a direct bolt on crate/injection system that will go right in like an L98 and give the power I'm looking for? I also picked the tpi crate b/c I can find a parts car for cheap, and get all the pullies, etc. that I'd need. Not sure about the LT1's, etc. What other suggestions are there?

 

It doesnt matter really what intake you sit on the motor, all the junk is going to bolt up just the same.

I dont buy crate motors so I cant help you out there, but you might want to search the net for the best crate you can find that is a non Vortec motor and stick a HSR atop it.

Or maybe buy a shortblock and then score the rest seperately.

 

So, the TPI Induction craps out at what power range? Zerotosixty said the Torque that TPI puts out would be great for the street. I don't need a top end fueler, b/c I'm not doing "that kind" of racing. Basically just messin' around on the streets...maybe the occassional drag. So, high 12's don't sound so bad. Does anyone else agree that the sdpc crate w/ tpi would get 300 rwhp if not more w/ what kind of upgrades/tweaking, etc.?

 

TQ is a whole different conversation. It will make gobs of TQ. But if you have an expectation or requiremnet of 300rwhp in mind chances are you will not reach it, thats all.

It will be very fun on the street, light to light. Modded LS1 cars will take you down all day long though, light to light. On the highway you will get beatup by both modded LS1 cars and modded Stangs. You should take down most of the ricers no matter what the situation.

 

By the way where you from in Chicago?

 

3750 LBS GTA(with driver), fully loaded and full weight runs 100+MPH in 1/4 mile with some tuning left in her.

3750lbs@100.5MPH = 280-290 RWHP.

That's with stock L98 cam, completely stock runners and plenum, sstock throttle body and no cold air package.

Once I install my ported plenum & runners, 52 MM TB and SLP Cold Air package, here comes the bench racer in me, I estimate 103-105 MPH in the 1/4.

3750lbs@103MPH = 320 RWHP.


Very doable in my opinion...all this with the stock cam.

By the way on the street(light to light) I already kill LT1s and make a race out of it with LS1s.

My combo in a lighter Fbody (3300lbs without driver) would be approaching 110 MPH and mid 12s.

 

Have you read this thread yet?

It has been around for some time now.

Mike runs low 12s and puts 300hp to the rears.

He is running a 383 though with worked over heads: bowl work and decent valves.

 

this one? or are u refering to another thread?

BTW, I assume you are talking about Mike Crews....he does those times with a 1.66 60ft...that's explains his ET, but his MPH are still low, only 108...that's inline for the HP he's making, but in my opinion he should be making more power than that.

 

I think the L98, modded, will still be the cheapest, easiest route for me. I don't have a shop, or giant garage. Also, I don't have a lift. So, redoing this thing is STILL difficult, but I think the L98 either crate, or worked over stock, will be less headaches for me. Even 290 or so at the rear should be very good, w/ that amount of torque. I think it will be MORE than fine for street use. Thanks for the considerations on different idea's though. Seeing as how I don't have a set "requirement", just wanting to go good and have ***** on the street should be easy to meet w/ the L98.

Thanks!!

 

Let me shed some light on this......I have the GM 350 HO Vortec motor w/TPI intake. Compared to the L98(RIP).....Well there is no comparison. This damn thing pulls all the way up to 5000 rpm before you feel a hint of power loss. The run that you can compare is the one I had with a 2000 LS1. He has the SLP air lid and running with open exhaust out the back. He was infront of me and we were doing about 45ish...He gets on it (so he had a good car on me already) and I follow. He SLOWLY pulls away until we let off at about 120...(LONG STRAIGHT ROAD TO THE PLANT) I would say he was about 2 1/2 cars on me (thats counting the car he started with).......so we do the math and he pulls about 1 1/2 cars on me. Now if we could have gone from a stop, I would have raped him out of the hole and he probably would have come back and beat by 3/4 to 1 car in the Qtr.

the moral of the story is that the LTR are good enough for what you are looking for.

I do appreciate the info. about the super ram though.....I was thinking about getting one of them.

Later

 

1fastformula: So, you think the L98 is a rip? Even referring to the sdpc Vortec tpi crate? Sounds like a good strong engine for a street car to me. Your story sounds very reassuring of the potential of the tpi induction.

Thanks!!

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=84340

I forgot the link, i was hoping the original poster was in the know of the Crews thread.

300rwhp is about the puke point of the LTR setup, maybe good for a little more but most often not.

 

you could do 300 RWHP on stock heads but it's much easier to get 300-330 RWHP with some quality (dart, motown, track 1, AFR) aftermarket heads, a ZZ9 or LT4 hot cam, full exhaust (headers, hi-flow cat or straight pipe, catback), and LTR TPI, HSR, miniram or superram, you could even squeak ove 300 with a stock, unported TPI with a good set of heads and a matched cam, but it will hold you back. a good stall and tires can get you low 12s on a mild build L98 bottom end. look at around 2K for parts and materials for 400+ CHP 400+ ft. lbs

 

The L98 is good, but for a little extra you can get the vortec crate motor. The TPI is restrictive, but I LOVE THE TORQUE!!!! I was also looking into the super ram intake, but thanks to this thread I know now not to waste my money (too much work involved).

Later

 

that torque, if you can hook it up, makes up for the top end loss to an extent, you are capped at 12s with a TPI 350. there comes a point when you need the RPM to make HP to get you into the 11s and 10s, if you so desire to run them

 

Hadn't realized more people replied to this thread. Yeah, sounds like a very good idea then. Do you think I'm better off finding an L98 car, and just rebuilding it? I know a guy that builds drag cars and won many awards. He can probably do whatever is needed to squeeze anything out of that block. Or, just go w/ a crate, and settle for what's there? Crate is less hassel, but it's hard to find a good combo one for under $3500. For what " zerotosixtyV8" said, $2k for parts, and probably get the car for $1500 or so...and that's that. Do you think a rebuilt L98 is just as good as the crate, in terms of lasting long, etc.? I mean, a crate, if it gets worn, there is still meat to bore out. More than likely, if I find a junker, it'll be bored and that's it, or if unlucky, it's already maxed out. So, what are my alternatives going THAT route?

 

Forgot to mention, for my application, even if I'm capped at low-mid 12's, that should be more than enough on a street car. 400+ CHP and TQ sound very good for a 300-350 rwhp engine. Also, rebuilding a 700R4 from the junker...would it be good, or just go for a Pro-Built one already w/ Corvette Servo's, etc.? New is always easier, but if I can save $$ and still be just as good and long lasting as new, I'd go rebuilt...

Thanks a lot!

 

You will not see over 300rwhp out of a LTR motor, get that notion out of your head, it aint gonna happen without extensive porting a perfect cam match and other details that need be paid attention.

From all your responses so far it doesnt seem that you are willing to take all those measures.

As for the trans, if you dont have a good core a junkyard rebuild is not always the best option, you have no idea of the history.

Some guy here in AZ has a Iroc for sale cheap, I have no idea of condition but it might not be a bad way to start. Seems like your way behind the curve with what you got Vs. what you want.

 

Do you agree with that calculation or not?

 

I was giving a rough estimate of my "300-350" quote on rwhp. Ok, so SAY 280-290 rwhp. If you have that WITH 400+ TQ, it is still good for 12's, so, off the line or around the street, you'll have PLENTY of power for a street car, in my opinion. Maybe it won't make a good dragster or track car, but I'm thinking it'll be plenty to show up guys on the street.

 

Absolutely not.

I have seen cars in the 255-260rwhp range trap 101 at similair race weights, slightly less though.

With the L98 cam and heads might I add, untouched heads, HSR intake though.

 

I'm not talking about stock heads, cam, etc. If you used all beefed up parts, your saying you still cannot get 300 rwhp just by keeping the LTR intake? Sdpc said they dyno'd it at 310 rwhp by doing some tuning, etc. So, who knows what now? lol, too many opposing answers.

 

Ok now!!!!

That is much more realistic.

There is huuuuuuuuge difference between 300 and 350, and you will never get a crate Vortec motor close to 350, not even close!

 

300 will be about the magic number with everything beefed up with aftermarket parts.

heads, cam, intake parts, headers, exhaust, converter, AL shaft, fuel system, CAI, etc.. Oh and dont forget tuning.

This is not new information fellas. Kinda common knowledge.

 

Ok, so say it was all beefed up, and you switched to Super Ram? Would that magic 300 # automatically rise? Or, what would you get more out of the same exact setup, just switching to Super Ram?

 

How much less? I happen to have a heavy 3rd gen car...some weigh as little as 3300lbs....

A tracked prepped car can easily shave off 200 lbs, thus requiring less HP to make equivalent MPH....

I think 300 RWHP is attainable with a TPI setup, maybe with aftermarket runners and base though....

 

Thats exactly right my friend. The SR will give you at a minimum an additional 500rpm of usable power. HP is a function of TQ and RPM, as you can rev your motor further the additional RPM put in the equation will generate HP, its really just simple mathematics. And the closer to that arguement is the fact that SR will not give up any power down low where the LTR setup shines it will be at least eqaul in the lower RPM range.

 

The car weighed somewhere in the mid 3500lb range at the line.

The real key to the speed was that there was damn near 100lbs removed from the drivetrain:

From the front to the back
~22lbs=Yank 9.5" converter
~6lbs=LS1 AL shaft
~60lbs=front skinnys, rear DRs, on lightweight drag rims

The car however was full power with AC, GFX, etc... Z28 Trim

The benefit of reducing rotating weight has multiples of impact over the benefit of cutting sprung weight.

 

Agreed, therefore less power was needed to attain to trap speeds. So my statement still stands

3750lbs@100.5MPH = 280-290 RWHP because this was done with absolutely no weight reduction anywhere.

 

No way, 290rwhp should be pushing at least 103 if not closer to 105, maybe more.

But I beg an answer, why dont you lose dome weight on that pig?

 

Yeah I agree in a 3400 LB car with driver.

LS1 Camaros and Firebird (automatics) run bone stock 104-106 MPH. They weigh less than MY GTA and they dyno 300+RWHP pretty regular.

So how do you figure that a heavier car would require less RWHP to acheive that MPH? All the MPH/HP calculators available back up my numbers, where are you getting yours from? Go to www.prestage.com and click on the car math link....then play around with those numbers.


Because my goal isn't to go as fast possible, it is to build a well balanced street car that can keep up with the newer cars on the roads today. I can't really shed much weight from it unless I start removing things, and that I won't do.

My car handles better than it did original, idles like a stock car, is quiet and aside from the headers looks bone stock. It runs consisent 13.8s on my everyday street tires, and once again the bench racer in me predicts 13.5s or better with 103-105 MPH once the last set of upgrades to the intake system is done, all this and still maintaining the stock look and full weight.

 

I think w/ all the work that is involved to fit Super Ram on that Vortec baseplate, your better off sticking w/ the LTR design. I mean, 500 more rpm, I don't think it's really feasible to do for just a street car. 290 or so rwhp, w/ a huge amount of TQ, I do think when backed up w/ everything else in the drivetrain, you can smoke many street cars. I can't see how I could personally go wrong w/ that engine. Remember, I'm not doing 1/4 mile runs, or drag strip type deals. Just the occassional, "Who's better from the light" games.

 

Well since your not going to be racing every weekend and just want a good strong engine. that makes 320rwhp.. My choice would be buy a zz4 short block zz9 cam or zz4 or 219/219 or lt4hot cam, so there is a few choices of cams. Now heads Trick flows or a set of Vortecs ported with a sdpc base manifold would be the ticket Egr kit for the vortecs and your set plumb that into your headers. With this you don't need no Super ram.. All you need is some port work on a stock tpi set up and your set. Do all your free mods and cheap mods like air intake. zz4 cam is friendly with your auto stock stall, the rest will need one along with prom tuning.
I have a well Ported Super ram and I installed it on my Iroc with stock manifolds, and I picked up a good amount of hp, the top end was much better. My build plan is a zz4 sb with a 236/242 with the vortec heads slp tri y dual cats into a mandrel cross flow master, And Dyno 2000 shows over 440hp

Basically I went backwards on my build up. I bought the Super Ram the Cam the headers the Vortecs and manley springs retainers and screw in studs and guide plates.. When I should have Just Bought a ZZ4 block.. If you have tpi now I say just use that and build pan to manifolds.. Not Super ram, cam heads etc.. Just my .02 and Story..

 

BrandenCali: Thanks for the info.

So, your saying a ZZ4 would be a better plan, instead of messing w/ the L98 or tpi crate? I have a 3.1 mpfi, so, I can really go either way w/ this. With the ZZ4 crate, can I use the whole setup that the L98 uses? ie, Brackets, Clips, Accessory Pullies, etc. etc.? Basically saying, would the ZZ4 bolt right up as if it were the original L98 engine? Complete install, wiring, etc...all the same? If that is the stronger engine and will give more power, maybe that's my best bet...