Let me start by giving the facts,
90-92' 5.7 SD TPI, 730 (newest version) ECM, $8D, Moates G3 switcher using AutoProm, 700R4 trans.
I completely gutted the the aftermarket Accell gen II DFI computer and removed the original OEM wire harness from the car.
All sensors new and soldered connections everywhere, new and soldered ECM plugs and pins. VATS bypass box installed and wired to ECM.
No mechanicals were touched from the running car when this was done, only one problem at a time is the theory.

Loaded up the Super 8dm1.ecu with S_AUJP (disabled VATS)

I've gotten to the point where the only code is 12 (good thing) but when cranking I do not get fuel.
I don't have a noid to check but when logging with Datamaster the BPW does not change at all.
Should I see the injectors pulse on this data line when cranking?

The distributor is the only other variable in my mind, I'll explain.
In looking at the wiring diagrams. the wiring for the remote coil HEI can be one of two ways. The Accell system had a distributor adapter harness that I wired the connections to allow easy removal if needed.
Some years (between 87-92) show the wiring connections EXACTLY opposite from the other.
I used deductive reasoning (and an ohm meter) to check which terminal was grounded and wired per that diagram.
I am reading reference pulses of about 60 mS when cranking.
The motor should fire right up. I've got power and good fuses everywhere, grounds are all soldered and connect to the battery for all engine controls.

I do get a smell of exhaust when cranking so I believe the spark is there. I can send you the log file during crank if that would help.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
JP

 

I'm having the same problem after replacing my distributor. My post is here I am getting a code 42 which is electronic spark timing. I've come across some informaton that states if the reference and reference ground wires (B5 and B3 respectively) coming from the 4 pin connector on the ignition module are open or grounded then a code 42 may show up and the ECM will not trigger the injectors to fire while cranking. When I get off work I'm going to investigate this further and hopefully figure out the problem. You may be having the same or similar problem.

 

Sound like the module on yours, I had that happen on a previous car (without FI) and I got the backfire then nothing.
I'm gonna check the module wiring on mine to see if that is the problem.
You may have to remove all power to reset the code even with the new module installed.
I have not seen where the injectors don't fire if the module is bad, I'm going to investigate that info as well and see if I can monitir the DRPs.
Still wondering if the Base Pulse Width changes while cranking or if this is the calculated value being displayed.
Thanks,
JP

 

After I wrote that I thought "if there is no spark, why put fuel in?"
The ECM is smarter than me this morning.
Of course they won't be triggered without a reference pulse.
My bad.

 

there are two ways that i have proven to find out whether or not and injector is firing besides looking at a computer screen.
1. Have some one crank on your cars ignition with your fingers touching some or any of your injectors while it is trying to start you should feel the injectors click or pulse repitiously.
2. the other one is easy just check the plug imediatly after cranking.
I have noticed that some software doesnt get true readings until the car is runnning

 

I already tried replacing the module with the one off the old distributor. That did nothing. I'm thinking that there's a bad connection somewhere in the 4 wire harness that goes to the ignition module. That's the first thing I'm gonna check when I get home.

 

Has the car worked since you got the Craig moates adaptor?

We forgot to put the memcal onto the adaptor and this gave exactly what your describing.

JAmes

 

I have not had it running since the rewire and the module install. I rechecked the distributor and believe it to be correct. I am seeing reference pulses of 60 mS when cranking and also getting fuel pump to start when I introduce a reference pulse from the battery to the est connection in the harnes. I think I'm ok there.
There was spark at two wires, so thats good too.
I can hear the injectors ticking when cranking but am not getting enough of something.
I did notice when reading the TPS volts from Datamaster, its correct at 0.46, but when reading it from TunerPro it is reversed.
I jumpered it to reverse the action (just to see) and still nothing more than a sputter. (FYI range of TPS is now 0.45 to 3.9 v)
I can almost make the motor run if I have 1 volt on the tps by giving a little throttle. it really tries to start but can sustain itself.
I'm beginning to wonder about the motor displacement and injector size settings.
I'm using the S_AUJP with VATS diabled. I think I'll try a 305 w/19# settings and see what happens. Who knows.

one other thing is my fuel pressure. I can hear fuel rushing through the regulator like never before. It used to build up and lug down after priming but now its a constant tone. I hooked up my "mighty Vac" to the regulator and pumped it and the sound level changed, so I think all is ok there as well.

 

I did put the memcal on the G3. A new AUJP from gmpartsdirect.
hope its a good one. I even tried to get it to run on the limp mode with no chip installed.
Didn't do anything different.
Thanks all,
Keep those ideas coming!

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE !!!!!!!

 

well im trying to figure your problem are you sure your getting fuel and if so do you know how many lbs of pressure that you are getting?? even though you can hear your pump it doesnt mean that your getting enough to fire an injector I believe you have to have at least 28 or 30 lbs for your injector to even fire hard enough to get your car to start. get a fuel pressure gauge there cheap install it on the schrader valve on the fuel rail and let us know, your car wont start if its on its way out the door.
I persoanlly run a high out put fuel pump with an inline booster I bought from ati procharger which keeps my fuel pressure extremely strong through the engines prime and full wot.

If your getting spark its not your distributor make sure all of your ground wires are still connected on the back of the motor as well and keep us updated..
rob

 

This may be ridiculous but have you messed with the timing? Get someone else to crank it while you turn the distributor. You may have it 180 degrees out and that will cause it to do exactly what yours is doing. Just a suggestion......it's easy to overlook the obvious things when diagnosing a problem.....I've done it many times.

By the way, I got my car started. The 4 pin connector at the module must have gotten pulled during all the work I did and the reference wire disconnected from the pin. I rewired the connector and it fired right up.

 

I started this project due to some detonation problems that I could not resolve with the Accell and OEM systems.
The car ran VERY strong up till the minute I pulled out the harnesses.
I have not disturbed any mechanicals just to limit future (present) problems and keep the problems electrical if any were to show up.
I am going to get a fuel gauge tomorrow and check the rail pressure, The sound is diffrent than previously heard. Sounds like too much constant flow over the regulator. I did run a larger gauge wire to the pump to insure voltage drop was minimal. Maybe it worked too good!
I was able to get slight, ugly, bumpy barely firing few cylinders with throttle at 1 Volt (this was where the TPS% begins to rise from zero)
I'm really beginning to believe the regulator went on me.
Just when you are trying to fix electrical, a different kind of problem shows up.
Thanks Mr. Murphy !!! *** :hail: ***

I'll keep posting to let you know where this ends.
Thanks for the help,
JP

 

yeah good point did you remove your distributor to make any of the wiring changes. you did say no mechanical modifications were made but they were if you pulled the distibutor because its not going to go right bac in unless your David Blaine..

 

I put the fuel pressure gauge in there and its reading 49 psi.
The Noid light is blinking very nice on all injectors.
I may have a spark power level problem.
There was spark yesterday but it was orange (not blue)
I'm thinking that all plugs may now be fouled to the point they won't clear.
I rechecked the distributor again (wiring) using the ground connection on the 4 pin connector as the reference.
It still boggles my mind how the std 5.7 distributor would be wired one way and the LT1 is EXACTLY reversed.
The Accell setup that was on the car had a Reverse harness adapter (all the wires were inverted from one end to the other)
I'm still confident that it is and has been wired correctly. like I said before the cap never came off the distributor and it has not been moved since driving into the garage last November.
I do read 60 mS DRP datalogging at cranking speed of about 400-450 rpm. The math works out.
Maybe the coil took a dump or the plugs are wasted.
Changing plugs tomorrow it looks like.
JP

 

Forgot to mention how many times (in my carb days) this has happened to me when reinstalling the distributor.
My wife refuses to hold open another choke when I first try to crank on one.
The 3 foot flame always got her attention! :lala:

I appreciate all of the ideas, especially the ones that sometimes seem trivial or way too obvious.
That's usually what bites you.
Thanks again.

 

What ECM have you got?

Quick questions....

Is there an SES light?
Does it blink when you put the key to first notch?
Are the fans coming on when the key is a first notch?
Is the fuel pump switching off before the car starts?

Just ruling out the ECM as a problem.

JAmes

 

there are no codes stored anymore. I was able to get rid of the VATS code that kept coming on. Fuel pump turns on for the first 2 sec. then stops. When cranking it turns back on (not from oil pressure) due to the DRP the ECM is getting.
The SES light comes on with the key, car cranks good but only trys to fire with throttle at 1.00 volts (right where TPS% starts to rise in the logging software)
The spark is there but seemed to be orange (not enough power??)
I rechecked the distributor wiring again and it STILL (for the 4th time) looks like I did it right.
I even pulled out all of the Moates stuff just to see if the stock AUJP would fire it. It did not.
I put all the stuff back in and am going to go through the pinouts in the ECM connectors and re triple check that I didn't make a boo boo.
This is getting difficult to troubleshoot an hour at a time.
Work and kids take all the time.
Didn't get the plugs out today to look at them.
The one thing I didn't mention was the new plug wire that I installed. They were not the highest quality but is another thing.
The coil to cap wire is good anyway, checked with ohm meter and checked the coil jumper 2 wire harness from coil to dist too.
I'm hoping I did make a wiring error in the connectors just to ease my mind. I'll let you know.
JP

 

Have you had a look at your spark plugs at all?

 

I got the plugs out and replaced them (were really wet)
The engine cranks steadily and is firing the plugs now (exhaust is getting warm) but still refuses to run.
I'm getting some backfires out of the throttle body at times when it almost runs.
1.) Is this a lean condition, even with plugs that keep coming out wet?
I even pulled the distributor cap and rechecked where #1 is.
My brother was kind enoght to call me stupid for ASSUMING the #1 plug wire was where it should be. After that I confirmed I'm at about 6 BTDC on timing and wires are correct.
2.) I was wondering also about the "super 8Dm1" .ecu file with the S_AUJP.bin. The cyclinder size was setup as 712.3 in TunerPro but I think it should be 71.23 ???
3.) How could I tell what size injectors on installed without removing the rails?

I'm concerned with the injector size values. I get an "almost" start when I turned the value to 50 lbs/hr just to get a little less pulse width on cranking.

Let me know what you think.
JP

 

Just a few questions jp.
1. how long has your car been sitting since it last ran?
2. what color are you injectors and are they original injectors? << thats 2 questions..
3. Have you moved your timing at all?

Every time I put a tpi motor together I try and start it at least twice with 4 or 5 second cranking trys. If it doesnt start and Im jacking with the timing I quicky disconnect my relay on the fire wall that sends power to my fuel pump because after the second try your plugs will already be saturated enough to keep your car from starting . I then try cranking another 2 or 3 times before I plug it back in just to make sure that I am not drenching my motor with fuel and thinking its somthing else.

 

This is how I have also been trying to start mine.
The distributor has not been moved since late November when I started the rewire.
I do not know what size the injectors are although I have programmed my G3 with 9 ranges from 19 to 40 lbs/hr.
The 30 lb setting gets the motor to rumble and seem like its running on 3-4 cylinders. Then I clean the plugs and try again. All other settings are no good so I'm thinking they are larger than stock. The stock AUJP Memcal will not do anything but flood the plugs (not good if I ever need limp mode).
The spark does not seem hot enough to me. It is consistently orange and not white/blue.
I rechecked the wiring on the coil and distributor many times, the coil may be the issue???? I don't know.
The motror keeps giving me indications that it is lean (backfires from intake) but even starting fluid makes no difference. That keeps pushing me back to look at ignition and timing.
Bypass unpluged makes no difference either.
Question: If I set the LBS/Hr to a different setting in the BIN, does the spark also change somewhere?
I must be missing something there.
I'm going to adjust the temp % adder to see if I can reduce fuel and then work on spark advance for cranking.
I'll let you know how that goes tonight.
JP

 

I also pull the fuel pump fuse to let the motor crank dry, then put the fuse back in to see if it will begin to run as the fuel stars.
This did not show any sign of helping.
Thanks Rob.

 

I finally got it to run!
Turns out to be the distributor afterall. I put in a new module, reset timing to 6 BTDC and it started right up.
The injectors are bigger than stock that's for sure and was causing the flooding problem.
To make it run right now I've got them programmed as 40#.
Anything less and I get real rich. Its just preliminary running for now but at least I can start tuning it in.
Thanks for all the help guys (and gals, if any jumped in there)
Greatly appreciate the suggestions.

 

Woooohoooo I bet some one lost sleep thinking about whats next...lmao

 

Yea, you aren't kidding there
Took it for the maiden voyage out of the garage (just to clean the trans fluid and antifreeze off the floor)
Been installing the new "stealth conversions" VSS and removing the B & M TCC controller and wiring the TCC to the ECM. Just couldn't run the wires with all the crap on the floor.
Still troubleshooting the O2 sensor, the value does not ever change from 451. (unplugged reads 447)
I'm having a hard time believing the mixture is perfect.
Even when I richen the injectors it does not change.
Bought a new one and the thing reads the exact same thing.

Eureka!!!!
While down there I noticed a B & M tag on the trans (cool deal)
I knew the second shift was hard for a reason.

Chips on the brain and begining to see the summer sun.
I can almost smell the burning rubber!

 

Like the topic??? lol man Im so glad you got it running...
Well I just got through spending my whole weekend installing a new fly wheel in my 88 gta notch bac.( what a pain in the rear) when I got the old one out it was shattered from hole to hole .Got a heavy duty one and re adjusted my timing from base timing 12 degrees to 6 I cant wait to go to the trac to do some 1/4 runs..

 

That flywheel must have sounded good when it let go
At least it wasn't the rod you probably thought it was!
From your bio it sounds like you've had a few broken parts.
That's all part of it!
Just say it the way I do, "It was the bad part that needed to be replaced anyway"
Thanks for all the help.