converting to tpi soon, HELP!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,576
Likes: 30
From: Harford County, MD
Car: camaro sportcoupe
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: G-Force GF5R
Axle/Gears: Moser 9"
converting to tpi soon, HELP!
ok guys, my car was originally a v6. swapped it out for a 310 with a holley. it works great but i need the reliability of a tpi system. here's what i got right now:
305 .030 over
crane cam .442"i/.465"e. 214/224 hydraulic flat tappet
crane aluminum roller rockers
416 casting heads (stock w/ fresh valve job)
jegs one wire alternator
GM HEI distro w/ accel supercoil
600cfm holley
torker II intake
what of this stuff can i keep. i am really concerned about my alternator. i am also very concerned about all of the wiring and stuff. i am a newbie at the electronic stuff and i am kinda scared by all the wires. i didn't rip out the harness from the car itself to the computer, but i did rip out the computer-engine harness. all those relays on the drivers side i ripped out too. what do they do and do i NEED them. also can i use the HEI distro?
305 .030 over
crane cam .442"i/.465"e. 214/224 hydraulic flat tappet
crane aluminum roller rockers
416 casting heads (stock w/ fresh valve job)
jegs one wire alternator
GM HEI distro w/ accel supercoil
600cfm holley
torker II intake
what of this stuff can i keep. i am really concerned about my alternator. i am also very concerned about all of the wiring and stuff. i am a newbie at the electronic stuff and i am kinda scared by all the wires. i didn't rip out the harness from the car itself to the computer, but i did rip out the computer-engine harness. all those relays on the drivers side i ripped out too. what do they do and do i NEED them. also can i use the HEI distro?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,576
Likes: 30
From: Harford County, MD
Car: camaro sportcoupe
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: G-Force GF5R
Axle/Gears: Moser 9"
so the cam can stay? what about all those relays and stuff. what do they do? do people normally keep them part of the wiring harness when selling them. i know this is really vague, but i am so lost, but i want to learn about this stuff so i can get with the "program" lol!
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,085
Likes: 2
From: Elgin, IL
Car: 1997 Corvette
Engine: LS1
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 2.73 IRS
Go with a TBI setup, less trouble for you to convert to, and then you can keep your intake if you buy the right TB adapter plate. If you ripped out all the sensors and harnesses anyways, you're never going to get a TPI setup to function properly unless you replace/repair it all..
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,803
Likes: 2
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Car: Z28
Engine: Sb2.2 406
Transmission: Jerico 4 speed
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" 3.60
What cam EXACTLY is it? What grind? Due to variations in valve timing it may or may not be so peachy with a TPI (or EFI in general, for that matter) setup. The cams that are more geared for EFI have larger LSA's and the intake valve event happens sooner (opens sooner, closes sooner, in relation to piston location).
The whole swap itself may or may not be "worth it" depending on your view of daily driver power. Also, due to the wiring fiasco and all the sensors and plugs that are needed, it is usually best to get a donor car. Those little things like pig tails for various sensors can nickle and dime you to death.
Here's another option, with a lot more flexibility than either the factory TBI or TPI setups. It's based off of the TBI system. The Holley Commander TBI setup. I would get either the 650 or 700 cfm version, both are 4bbl. You would have to swap distributors. They are speed density, like the later TPI setups. The throttle body itself fits standard square bore intakes *cough* carb intake*. you probably can get away with re-using the cam and intake. They come with the Commander 950 ECU, MAP and o2 sensors, Idle Air Control motor, an inline fuel pump, wiring harness, and software. The nice thing about this is you use your computer and you can progam a air/fuel curve to fit your cam. No PROM tuning or whatever involved. This way you can use larger cams and what not and can easily adapt your fuel injection system to match. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty good. All this costs $1350 from Summit. Not too shabby if you ask me. Might want to look into it.
<A HREF="http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY-950-23S&N=120%20303895">HLY-950-23s</A> for the 650 cfm version, 150-300 hp
<A HREF="http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY-950-22S&N=120%20303895">HLY-950-22s</A> for the 700 cfm version, 225-400 hp
Those would make the swap over to EFI a lot easier, if you ask me (I like the idea of being able to program the air/fuel curve to match a cam with the simple software calibration, which is included). So I would take a look into one of those as well.
The whole swap itself may or may not be "worth it" depending on your view of daily driver power. Also, due to the wiring fiasco and all the sensors and plugs that are needed, it is usually best to get a donor car. Those little things like pig tails for various sensors can nickle and dime you to death.
Here's another option, with a lot more flexibility than either the factory TBI or TPI setups. It's based off of the TBI system. The Holley Commander TBI setup. I would get either the 650 or 700 cfm version, both are 4bbl. You would have to swap distributors. They are speed density, like the later TPI setups. The throttle body itself fits standard square bore intakes *cough* carb intake*. you probably can get away with re-using the cam and intake. They come with the Commander 950 ECU, MAP and o2 sensors, Idle Air Control motor, an inline fuel pump, wiring harness, and software. The nice thing about this is you use your computer and you can progam a air/fuel curve to fit your cam. No PROM tuning or whatever involved. This way you can use larger cams and what not and can easily adapt your fuel injection system to match. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty good. All this costs $1350 from Summit. Not too shabby if you ask me. Might want to look into it.
<A HREF="http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY-950-23S&N=120%20303895">HLY-950-23s</A> for the 650 cfm version, 150-300 hp
<A HREF="http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY-950-22S&N=120%20303895">HLY-950-22s</A> for the 700 cfm version, 225-400 hp
Those would make the swap over to EFI a lot easier, if you ask me (I like the idea of being able to program the air/fuel curve to match a cam with the simple software calibration, which is included). So I would take a look into one of those as well.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,576
Likes: 30
From: Harford County, MD
Car: camaro sportcoupe
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: G-Force GF5R
Axle/Gears: Moser 9"
yes, i have seen those kits, and with the initial shock being the price tag, i decided to look into a stock system, for money's sake, but it looks like you guys are telling me that the convenience is going to be worth the (after all said and done) just few more dollars. i have looked at the commander 950 system for a long time...but money is definetly an issue right now, but i am just too carburator stupid i guess. my father has been working on holleys for a long time, but he is in Ohio right now and can't help me out till he gets home next week.
seriously considering the holley system. will also allow me to run a good dual plane intake.
cam: crane blue racer cam p/n WG1159K
seriously considering the holley system. will also allow me to run a good dual plane intake.
cam: crane blue racer cam p/n WG1159K
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,803
Likes: 2
From: Grand Rapids, MI
Car: Z28
Engine: Sb2.2 406
Transmission: Jerico 4 speed
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" 3.60
There's not too much info on Crane's site about that cam. Hard to tell the valve timing events. But anyway, the Blue Racer series never really jumped out at me as an EFI friendly cam. But, again, that's hard to finalize without seeing the valve timing evens, although the powerband hints at it.
Anyways, those issues aside. The thing i don't like about the swap (I've looked at it myself after I blew up my engine) is the fact that to truly make it as easy, or at least, as close as possible, to the Commander line would be a donor car. Then comes the camshaft part. You would need PROM burning equipment if you ever wanted to upgrade cams or wanted to get the most out of the system with the Blue Racer cam. Otherwise, a Comp EFI cam would be on tap, in my opionion.
I guess, ultimatly, it boils down to how much work you are willing to go through. Like i said, if I ever swap, I'm a big fan of the idea of bringing a laptop on the road so I could literally do test and tune on the spot....mmm go to the track, do a run, adjust the fuel curve, do another run, etc. Sounds tempting. But you know your budget better than me.
Anyways, those issues aside. The thing i don't like about the swap (I've looked at it myself after I blew up my engine) is the fact that to truly make it as easy, or at least, as close as possible, to the Commander line would be a donor car. Then comes the camshaft part. You would need PROM burning equipment if you ever wanted to upgrade cams or wanted to get the most out of the system with the Blue Racer cam. Otherwise, a Comp EFI cam would be on tap, in my opionion.
I guess, ultimatly, it boils down to how much work you are willing to go through. Like i said, if I ever swap, I'm a big fan of the idea of bringing a laptop on the road so I could literally do test and tune on the spot....mmm go to the track, do a run, adjust the fuel curve, do another run, etc. Sounds tempting. But you know your budget better than me.
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