ZZ4 Cam
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From: Mt. Holly, New Jersey
Car: 1992 Firebird Formula 350
Engine: 5.7 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.23 Posi
ZZ4 Cam
If you swap the stock TPI cam out for a ZZ4 on an otherwise stock 350, how much of an improvement will you see? Or is there a better cam choice?
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,449
Likes: 7
From: LONDON, KY
Car: Camaro
Engine: Carbed L98
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: ZZ4 Cam
Originally posted by tommygun
If you swap the stock TPI cam out for a ZZ4 on an otherwise stock 350, how much of an improvement will you see? Or is there a better cam choice?
If you swap the stock TPI cam out for a ZZ4 on an otherwise stock 350, how much of an improvement will you see? Or is there a better cam choice?
As far as performace gains, I beleive you will be limited with the "stock" TPI unit.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 379
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From: Shelbyville, IN
Car: 92' RS Camaro
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4
From what I've heard the ZZ4 cam is about the most you can throw at the STOCK tune and run *decent*. SHould see some more upper RPM, but to take advantage of that you should get headers and improve your intake track via porting or aftermarket.
I'm not going to have a way to compare because I'm switching from a stock L03 TBI, to a L98 ZZ4 TPI w/ bolt ons so all I can do is post my results when I'm done.
Good Luck!
I'm not going to have a way to compare because I'm switching from a stock L03 TBI, to a L98 ZZ4 TPI w/ bolt ons so all I can do is post my results when I'm done.
Good Luck!
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,494
Likes: 412
From: Sophia, NC
Car: 2016 Camaro SS + 1986 Z28
We need to make an all inclusive ZZ4 cam thread. I'll look into doing something about that....
TUNE? Yes, it'll run just fine. You'll get more out of it with a custom tune, but that can be said for a bone stock L98 too. The only reason I didn't get it done is because I wanted to wait till I got the high flow TPI stuff.
Performance? Well, I had the heads cleaned, a valve job done, and headers and a catback all at the same time I swapped in the ZZ4 cam. It's not even close to what it was. It pulls a LOT harder through the midrange, and revs about 300-400 RPMs higher. I'm sure the headers and exhaust helped, but you really should already have all that done if you're thinking about a cam. I lost a tad bit of low end, but it was easily worth the mid and upper end gains. My new 3.27 9bolt and 2200 converter has since removed any low end concerns.
I have LT4 springs. New springs are a must.
I noticed on my receipt for the headwork, screw-in studs were not listed, and I had requested them. I called my guy and he confirmed that he did NOT put them in. Ive run the motor pretty hard with no problems, but I may in the future. I would consider it a must do. I guess we'll see what happens.
I also asked him about the valve guides. He did NOT do any machining, and said it was NOT necessary. I am not saying that he's correct, only telling you what he said. I'm currently not having problems though. Again, I'm just reporting what he said, I do NOT pretend to know one way or the other.
TUNE? Yes, it'll run just fine. You'll get more out of it with a custom tune, but that can be said for a bone stock L98 too. The only reason I didn't get it done is because I wanted to wait till I got the high flow TPI stuff.
Performance? Well, I had the heads cleaned, a valve job done, and headers and a catback all at the same time I swapped in the ZZ4 cam. It's not even close to what it was. It pulls a LOT harder through the midrange, and revs about 300-400 RPMs higher. I'm sure the headers and exhaust helped, but you really should already have all that done if you're thinking about a cam. I lost a tad bit of low end, but it was easily worth the mid and upper end gains. My new 3.27 9bolt and 2200 converter has since removed any low end concerns.
I have LT4 springs. New springs are a must.
I noticed on my receipt for the headwork, screw-in studs were not listed, and I had requested them. I called my guy and he confirmed that he did NOT put them in. Ive run the motor pretty hard with no problems, but I may in the future. I would consider it a must do. I guess we'll see what happens.
I also asked him about the valve guides. He did NOT do any machining, and said it was NOT necessary. I am not saying that he's correct, only telling you what he said. I'm currently not having problems though. Again, I'm just reporting what he said, I do NOT pretend to know one way or the other.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,449
Likes: 7
From: LONDON, KY
Car: Camaro
Engine: Carbed L98
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Originally posted by Abubaca
We need to make an all inclusive ZZ4 cam thread. I'll look into doing something about that....
TUNE? Yes, it'll run just fine. You'll get more out of it with a custom tune, but that can be said for a bone stock L98 too. The only reason I didn't get it done is because I wanted to wait till I got the high flow TPI stuff.
Performance? Well, I had the heads cleaned, a valve job done, and headers and a catback all at the same time I swapped in the ZZ4 cam. It's not even close to what it was. It pulls a LOT harder through the midrange, and revs about 300-400 RPMs higher. I'm sure the headers and exhaust helped, but you really should already have all that done if you're thinking about a cam. I lost a tad bit of low end, but it was easily worth the mid and upper end gains. My new 3.27 9bolt and 2200 converter has since removed any low end concerns.
I have LT4 springs. New springs are a must.
I noticed on my receipt for the headwork, screw-in studs were not listed, and I had requested them. I called my guy and he confirmed that he did NOT put them in. Ive run the motor pretty hard with no problems, but I may in the future. I would consider it a must do. I guess we'll see what happens.
I also asked him about the valve guides. He did NOT do any machining, and said it was NOT necessary. I am not saying that he's correct, only telling you what he said. I'm currently not having problems though. Again, I'm just reporting what he said, I do NOT pretend to know one way or the other.
We need to make an all inclusive ZZ4 cam thread. I'll look into doing something about that....
TUNE? Yes, it'll run just fine. You'll get more out of it with a custom tune, but that can be said for a bone stock L98 too. The only reason I didn't get it done is because I wanted to wait till I got the high flow TPI stuff.
Performance? Well, I had the heads cleaned, a valve job done, and headers and a catback all at the same time I swapped in the ZZ4 cam. It's not even close to what it was. It pulls a LOT harder through the midrange, and revs about 300-400 RPMs higher. I'm sure the headers and exhaust helped, but you really should already have all that done if you're thinking about a cam. I lost a tad bit of low end, but it was easily worth the mid and upper end gains. My new 3.27 9bolt and 2200 converter has since removed any low end concerns.
I have LT4 springs. New springs are a must.
I noticed on my receipt for the headwork, screw-in studs were not listed, and I had requested them. I called my guy and he confirmed that he did NOT put them in. Ive run the motor pretty hard with no problems, but I may in the future. I would consider it a must do. I guess we'll see what happens.
I also asked him about the valve guides. He did NOT do any machining, and said it was NOT necessary. I am not saying that he's correct, only telling you what he said. I'm currently not having problems though. Again, I'm just reporting what he said, I do NOT pretend to know one way or the other.
I guess it is just a "try it and see" kinda thing. I have been trying to figure out the biggest cam I could run with the stock L98 heads and bigger stock dia. springs. No cutting or screw in studs. I dont want to pull the heads, if I dont have too. I am also running carb and a single plane intake. So no TPI to deal with.
My advice was just relaying all the advice I had received on the subject.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 379
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From: Shelbyville, IN
Car: 92' RS Camaro
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4
Yea, I was originally going to see if it would fit without problems to save the $30 for head gaskets but I think I'm going to get some quotes and maybe just let a machine shop grind them down for me to be safe.
Haven't decided yet really. I think the ZZ4 is a great cam for a slightly modified L98. Any more then that and I think your pushing the limits of the 083 heads and would need aftermarket anyway. That's why it would be really nice to have a definitive answer if the ZZ4 would work w/o valve guide modifications.
EDIT: After rereading your post Abubaca looks like it will clear. But I think it's one of those real close things everybody should check when installing. Variations in castings and whatnot...
Haven't decided yet really. I think the ZZ4 is a great cam for a slightly modified L98. Any more then that and I think your pushing the limits of the 083 heads and would need aftermarket anyway. That's why it would be really nice to have a definitive answer if the ZZ4 would work w/o valve guide modifications.
EDIT: After rereading your post Abubaca looks like it will clear. But I think it's one of those real close things everybody should check when installing. Variations in castings and whatnot...
Last edited by Chrome; Feb 21, 2005 at 04:00 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 379
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From: Shelbyville, IN
Car: 92' RS Camaro
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4
Abubaca,
Do the LT4 springs fit in the STOCK pockets?!?! I didn't think they did.
That would be great if they did because that is the springs I really wanted to get...
Do the LT4 springs fit in the STOCK pockets?!?! I didn't think they did.
That would be great if they did because that is the springs I really wanted to get...
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,494
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From: Sophia, NC
Car: 2016 Camaro SS + 1986 Z28
I took off the heads, handed the heads and springs to the guy and he did the rest. I can ask though.
I'd like to make a comment though. When I started my search for a cam, I had the same ideas as most of you. Don't pull the heads, no need to immediately re-tune, decent power on a mild or stock TPI.
At this point, I wished I had gone bigger. I did all the work (except heads) myself, and for the amount of work, I wish I had saved up a little more money and done a little more work. (Bigger cam and heads, maybe a full rebuild) Does it run great? Yes. Am I happy? Yes. Was it worth all the work? eh, I dunno. I guess it was since I was ready to break into the motor, and I was sick of being stock, but I had to do a LOT. It blew the 170,000 mile 700r4 in 2 weeks, so I had to swap in new tranny. No point going with a stock convertor, so I ended with a 2200 "ish" TC. The TC and the 2.77 gears didn't work well together so I had to fab up a TC control lockout so It wouldn't lock-up under the stall speed around town. I drive the car harder, and the car now flexes like a noodle, and SFC's are on the short list, as is new suspension.
When I finished the swap, the cam was my pride and joy, by next fall, the car will have received a new performance tranny/TC, new 9 bolt w/3.27s, all new front and rear suspension/steering/springs and shocks, SFC, STB and all kinds of other little things. It'll be a full on monster with a little old ZZ4 cammed L98.
Love the car, and it's a GREAT cam. Shoulda gone bigger.
I'd like to make a comment though. When I started my search for a cam, I had the same ideas as most of you. Don't pull the heads, no need to immediately re-tune, decent power on a mild or stock TPI.
At this point, I wished I had gone bigger. I did all the work (except heads) myself, and for the amount of work, I wish I had saved up a little more money and done a little more work. (Bigger cam and heads, maybe a full rebuild) Does it run great? Yes. Am I happy? Yes. Was it worth all the work? eh, I dunno. I guess it was since I was ready to break into the motor, and I was sick of being stock, but I had to do a LOT. It blew the 170,000 mile 700r4 in 2 weeks, so I had to swap in new tranny. No point going with a stock convertor, so I ended with a 2200 "ish" TC. The TC and the 2.77 gears didn't work well together so I had to fab up a TC control lockout so It wouldn't lock-up under the stall speed around town. I drive the car harder, and the car now flexes like a noodle, and SFC's are on the short list, as is new suspension.
When I finished the swap, the cam was my pride and joy, by next fall, the car will have received a new performance tranny/TC, new 9 bolt w/3.27s, all new front and rear suspension/steering/springs and shocks, SFC, STB and all kinds of other little things. It'll be a full on monster with a little old ZZ4 cammed L98.
Love the car, and it's a GREAT cam. Shoulda gone bigger.
Last edited by Abubaca; Feb 21, 2005 at 05:52 PM.
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Posts: 631
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From: Saskatchewan
Car: 1992 GTA
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 4.10
When I had my engine done a few years ago I had a ZZ4 cam installed on my 083's. My engine rebuilder cut the valve guides as the clearance is close enough to warrant it. He also used screw in studs and some different Comp dual springs. Don't get me wrong, many guys have installed the ZZ4 cam on unmodified stock heads but from what I was told its a possible huge problem with binding. He explained it in a way that made me belive a ZZ4 cam should not be used on a stock head setup. As for going bigger, yes for all the work to do it properly, a person might want a larger cam. Mine idles like glass after tuning, so much so that its not noticeable. When I rebuilt my motor I changed so much that the car would not idle or even run on stock tune but a lot was injectors and airflow as opposed to just the cam. But my wife can go get groceries in the car and it runs like a stock vehicle, I still get 27MPG on the highway and I can run 12's with a little shot of nitrous so it can't all be bad
Last edited by razor; Feb 21, 2005 at 05:59 PM.
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From: Shelbyville, IN
Car: 92' RS Camaro
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4
LOL
Exactly what I'm afraid off. As soon as I get some new found power (especially goin from a TBI L03 to the TPI L98) I'm gonna be hooked and never look back. Horsepower bug is fun, but expensive!
Anyhow, I'll probably do what you did. I bought this engine off of a guy claimed ran good not burning oil. It's got about 100k on the longblock. Heads look super clean and plugs look good, but figured hell I'll just take them off and check things out... (gives a good reason to throw in 0.015" gaskets and give me about 9.5:1 hehe)
I'm throwing SLP RUnners and ported plenum on w/ teh cam although going with the STOCK base. Got the runners dirt cheap, but don't want to cash out $2-300+ for a base when a Stealthram is in the future plans... AB, Did you modify your intake any or is it completely stock?
Exactly what I'm afraid off. As soon as I get some new found power (especially goin from a TBI L03 to the TPI L98) I'm gonna be hooked and never look back. Horsepower bug is fun, but expensive!
Anyhow, I'll probably do what you did. I bought this engine off of a guy claimed ran good not burning oil. It's got about 100k on the longblock. Heads look super clean and plugs look good, but figured hell I'll just take them off and check things out... (gives a good reason to throw in 0.015" gaskets and give me about 9.5:1 hehe)
I'm throwing SLP RUnners and ported plenum on w/ teh cam although going with the STOCK base. Got the runners dirt cheap, but don't want to cash out $2-300+ for a base when a Stealthram is in the future plans... AB, Did you modify your intake any or is it completely stock?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,494
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From: Sophia, NC
Car: 2016 Camaro SS + 1986 Z28
At the moment its bone stock. Not even the screens have been removed. Heck I still prefer paper filters.
I have some fully ported SLP's and plenum on the way. they will go on the stock base, and at that point I'll probably get a custom dyno tune as well.
There's a guy with an Accell Base for sale, so ya never know, but it's not on the agenda right now.
I do us thirdgenners proud in the face of some STRONG LS1's at our club cruise ins. I just couldn't open up the hood with anything other than a long tube set-up. If I have to blow it, it'll be a long tube TPI. :werd:
I have some fully ported SLP's and plenum on the way. they will go on the stock base, and at that point I'll probably get a custom dyno tune as well.
There's a guy with an Accell Base for sale, so ya never know, but it's not on the agenda right now.
I do us thirdgenners proud in the face of some STRONG LS1's at our club cruise ins. I just couldn't open up the hood with anything other than a long tube set-up. If I have to blow it, it'll be a long tube TPI. :werd:
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,449
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From: LONDON, KY
Car: Camaro
Engine: Carbed L98
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Originally posted by Abubaca
At the moment its bone stock. Not even the screens have been removed. Heck I still prefer paper filters.
I have some fully ported SLP's and plenum on the way. they will go on the stock base, and at that point I'll probably get a custom dyno tune as well.
There's a guy with an Accell Base for sale, so ya never know, but it's not on the agenda right now.
I do us thirdgenners proud in the face of some STRONG LS1's at our club cruise ins. I just couldn't open up the hood with anything other than a long tube set-up. If I have to blow it, it'll be a long tube TPI. :werd:
At the moment its bone stock. Not even the screens have been removed. Heck I still prefer paper filters.
I have some fully ported SLP's and plenum on the way. they will go on the stock base, and at that point I'll probably get a custom dyno tune as well.
There's a guy with an Accell Base for sale, so ya never know, but it's not on the agenda right now.
I do us thirdgenners proud in the face of some STRONG LS1's at our club cruise ins. I just couldn't open up the hood with anything other than a long tube set-up. If I have to blow it, it'll be a long tube TPI. :werd:
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,494
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From: Sophia, NC
Car: 2016 Camaro SS + 1986 Z28
Well, not really.
My first EVER pass, and with 2.77 gears, I ran a 9.4 in the 1/8th @ 79mph. With those gears and the 2200TC, I've found launching to be a problem. I either can't get it off the line or I spin through the 60'.
I've since got the 3.27 gear, but no times yet.
Keep in mind I'M A NEWBIE on the track....which is why my numbers don't really tell anything. I'm thinking I should be somewhere around 8.7 or 8.8, but that's just a guess based on other people I've talked to with similar mods.
My first EVER pass, and with 2.77 gears, I ran a 9.4 in the 1/8th @ 79mph. With those gears and the 2200TC, I've found launching to be a problem. I either can't get it off the line or I spin through the 60'.
I've since got the 3.27 gear, but no times yet.
Keep in mind I'M A NEWBIE on the track....which is why my numbers don't really tell anything. I'm thinking I should be somewhere around 8.7 or 8.8, but that's just a guess based on other people I've talked to with similar mods.
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Originally posted by Chrome
Heads look super clean and plugs look good, but figured hell I'll just take them off and check things out... (gives a good reason to throw in 0.015" gaskets and give me about 9.5:1 hehe)
Heads look super clean and plugs look good, but figured hell I'll just take them off and check things out... (gives a good reason to throw in 0.015" gaskets and give me about 9.5:1 hehe)
That's just what I would do...and I'd upgrade the intake manifold to a better flowing one.
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From: california
Car: 86 camaro
Engine: 350ci (245hp model)
Transmission: T-5
I PUT IN MY ZZ4 CAM AND HAD NO PROBLEM. ALSO ZZ4 SPRINGS CANNOT HANDLE MORE THEN A .525 LIFT. ZZ4 SPRINGS WILL NOT FIT IN THE STOCK VALVE SEATS OF 1.25 THEY ARE 1.32.
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Originally posted by shaddow_wolf69
I PUT IN MY ZZ4 CAM AND HAD NO PROBLEM. ALSO ZZ4 SPRINGS CANNOT HANDLE MORE THEN A .525 LIFT. ZZ4 SPRINGS WILL NOT FIT IN THE STOCK VALVE SEATS OF 1.25 THEY ARE 1.32.
I PUT IN MY ZZ4 CAM AND HAD NO PROBLEM. ALSO ZZ4 SPRINGS CANNOT HANDLE MORE THEN A .525 LIFT. ZZ4 SPRINGS WILL NOT FIT IN THE STOCK VALVE SEATS OF 1.25 THEY ARE 1.32.
I'm working on getting a good, smooth idle, now (I think I can, I think I can
) 
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1989 IROC-Z
Engine: 5.7L EFI LTR setup
Transmission: T-5 World Class
I have the setup listed in my sig . I got a hogged out Edlebrock TPI setup . I didn;t notice much loss down low . But I have a 5-speed so it didn't matter to me much . I too agree on the mid range grunt being very strong compared to what I am used to .
Click my www. to see how I hogged out the runners ( siamesed 4"in ) and the plenum too . Take in to account here EVERYTHING is new on my motor that need to be( except rodds and crank and heads) I got it to run and idle at 700 rpm ...with the STOCK 305 prom . I had bald 235/60/15's a 220 lb buddy in the car and I really shifted bad ( do to an injury)...she pegged 7000 rpm and blew the alternator . But it hit a 14.4 @ 95 mph
Its a great cam ! for our mild setup 's
Click my www. to see how I hogged out the runners ( siamesed 4"in ) and the plenum too . Take in to account here EVERYTHING is new on my motor that need to be( except rodds and crank and heads) I got it to run and idle at 700 rpm ...with the STOCK 305 prom . I had bald 235/60/15's a 220 lb buddy in the car and I really shifted bad ( do to an injury)...she pegged 7000 rpm and blew the alternator . But it hit a 14.4 @ 95 mph
Its a great cam ! for our mild setup 's
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From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1989 IROC-Z
Engine: 5.7L EFI LTR setup
Transmission: T-5 World Class
Originally posted by 2new2funny
Is there an advantage to using the 305 prom?
Is there an advantage to using the 305 prom?
No ...I wouldn say so .... I am still trying to get my computer to connect so I can read how far off it is. I wouldn't recomend running the prom though .... it's just not optimal ... and may be a bad idea . I just did it becasue I had to at the time and had no options and was really impatient lol .
Once I get the Moates USB adapter to work I will scan it for ya and let ya know how bad/good it is
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From: Beautiful BC
Car: '88 IROC-Z / '91 Z28 / '91 GTA
Engine: LT4 Hot Cam 305 / L98 355 / MR 383
Transmission: 5-spd / 700R4 / 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:45 / 3:23 / 3:23
I'm thinking of installing a ZZ3 cam into a stock 305 with aluminum L98 heads and comp cam single springs which will handle a 525 lift.
My question is; is the ZZ3 and ZZ4 cam the same thing? The cam I am considering buying is a from a ZZ3 crate motor.
My question is; is the ZZ3 and ZZ4 cam the same thing? The cam I am considering buying is a from a ZZ3 crate motor.
I like videos! Supreme Member
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From: Beautiful BC
Car: '88 IROC-Z / '91 Z28 / '91 GTA
Engine: LT4 Hot Cam 305 / L98 355 / MR 383
Transmission: 5-spd / 700R4 / 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:45 / 3:23 / 3:23
I like video's too.. email to me also plz; brisk@shaw.ca
there is also a video thread here; https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=274520
there is also a video thread here; https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=274520
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From: Everett, WA
Car: 87' IROC
Engine: L98
Transmission: T56
Please, Please install screw in studs and save yourself a lot of time and money. I pulled out 2 pressed in studs in a month with the zz4. Of course this led to other damage to the head which cost more money to fix. So off came the heads again to get in done right.
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