Im hoping to make around 300rwhp give or take. Im gonna be using Vortec heads and the Vortec stealthram on a 350.
So i guess my question is what cam do you think would be better suited for the motor?
I already have a zz4 cam and I imagine it would be easier to tune, (since im inexperienced with that) but from previous posts I hear the zz4 is too mild for most stealthram combos.
So I was thinking the LT4 hotcam would be good as long as its reasonably streetably, what do you guys think?
thanks

 

I agree with what you said.

300 RWHP probably won't happen with the ZZ4 cam (on a Mustang dyno at least). I've seen 240 from one with a 12 barrel (6 2's) efi manifold, on a Mustang dyno.

It's an easy cam to learn with, and will make the engine feel a lot better than stock along with the other parts. I don't know how much experience you have with faster cars, but it'll still make a fun street car.

If you plan on actually having some confidence in street racing or are looking for easy mid 12's go hotcam and torque converter and get some traction.

And the heads will have to be done up with the higher lift capable valve springs (stockers bind at about .470" or that's the max recommended lift or so).

 

i would go bigger than either of them for 300rwp on vortec heads and stealth ram. stealth ram likes to breathe to 5500-6000rpms so a hot cam would be minimum i think, maybe slightly bigger. if you can, open up the heads somewhat especially on exhaust side and get a cam to match it (more closer to single pattern)

 

If you pick the right cam the vortecs will be the limiting factor. 6085's flow about the same as vortecs and my power curve dies out in short order after 5K RPM. I don't know how much of this is due to the lack of wideband tuning. Because of the Hot cam the power curve doesn't wake up until about 3k, so I have a pretty narrow powerband. There are more powerful cams than LT4 hotcam that are just as "extreme" (bad for idle and mileage). To sum up, I wouldn't go for anything more extreme than LT4 hotcam unless you plan on going with better heads, and I wouldn't go with hotcam because there are better grinds with about the same duration specs and operable rev range.

 

As a fan of the ZZ4 cam, I'm here to tell you it's too small for the HSR.

Don't know how big to tell you to go, but the ZZ4 cam is too small.

 

I've seen ZZ4 cams make over 330hp to the rear wheels in a 350 with Vortec Heads. Another guy on southern cali board made 352rwhp@442rwtq in a 383 with 400 stock rods. A Super Ram with 58mm throttle body was used.

 

I can see the ZZ4 cam being a good match with vortec heads because it has so much more exhaust lift than intake lift and exhaust flow is the vortec's weakness. That said it is still a small cam.

 

I was gonna get into that too.

I've seen the ZZ4 cam make some big numbers, but I still think the LT4 cam is "better" for his application. That's not to say he CAN'T hit 300 with the zz4 though.

 

The bigger the cam you go with, the more the Vortecs will limit you. I had a HSR and LT4 cam. I really liked it. I am sure there are better cams though. I also had trick flows though, and i love to tune.

 

Sorry, but whats the specs on the ZZ4 cam again

 

Go with Comp Cams' 224/230 @ .050 Hydraulic Roller. You have MAF, so it will be quite easy to tune. I would also go with a 110* LSA.

And before you go "WHOA THAT'S PRETTY BIG".... I've been helping a buddy tune his 1989 MAF car with a solid roller 242/256 @ .050 with a 110* LSA. He admits he should have gone with my original recommendation of a 106* LSA.

SD cars can have some issues with tuning on a narrow LSA but MAF is more forgiving.

And, since you live in Calgary, you can always get your butt out to Kamloops and I'll give you hand if you are afraid of any tuning issues. Then we can go to Ashcroft to see how fast it will go.

 

I believe that capt. picardsZ28 has a 108 LSA and he has a SD set up.

 

Actually, the LSA has never really been the tuning problem. The real issue is how much overlap you have. A narrow LSA cam with a short duration cam will have far less overlap (and will be easier to tune) than a wider LSA but large duration.

I hope there isn't a misunderstanding with my comment. I did not mean to imply SD cars cannot handle a narrow LSA cam. Far from it. They just involve a little extra work for tuning (compared to MAF), nothing more. My comment was more to let the orignal post know that his MAF car will make the tuning process easier and to not let it stop him from getting a narrow LSA.

I believe this whole "LSA" issue was from the older days when eprom tuning was not widely known and there were only a few custom eprom tuners around. Trying to resolve an idle issue "from a far" without hands-on tuning can be a bit of challenge. So the recommendation of "go with a wider LSA" was more to avoid a computer tuning issue. (Which if you are tuning your own chips or have a buddy who can do it for you, makes it only a minor issue).

 

I think the cam you mentioned here is a great cam. But he will need AFR's or fastburns for it to work well with his setup. I think hotcam duration should be a ceiling for the cam he runs if he sticks with vortecs. Compcams 264HR-12 might be a good choice.

 

We'll have to see how it works, but I'm using a GM "846" camshaft with Vortecs and a Ram-Jet Intake. The Vortecs have had some porting and the bowls blended.

 

I guess it really depends on what further mods a person plans to make. If this was to "be the last mod and no more", then a smaller cam would be a wiser choice. But, too many guys make a mod and next thing, do another. So if he was planning heads in the future, getting a bigger cam would save him having to do another cam swap in the future (unless he plans to pull the engine at which point swapping the cam will be "minor additional work").

But, if there is an off chance that he will "want to do more" (and they usually do), I just say "get the bigger cam to start with" and do it only once.

 

Car Craft recently ran a series on an engine using Vortec heads. They started with the LT-1 remake .435/.460 (forgot the duration, but milder than ZZ4). Then they swapped to the Hot Cam. They made 400 HP but with Fastburns and the cam you make 430. The ZZ4 should be the max for Vortecs without porting being done. GM is now offering a 400 HP crate motor and it has the ZZ4 cam in it. As far as the induction goes, use a Vortec base with large runners and a 52MM TB.

The bottom line is to maximize the available horsepower and torque afforded by your heads. If the heads are dead just past 5K, a 6500 rpm cam is worthless, same with a 6500 rpm intake. If you want to run that intake and cam, get better heads. If you stick to the Vortec's and don't intend to port them, go with the ZZ4, Vortec base and you will be much happier with your seat of the pants feel and quarter mile times. Get the better heads, go with the bigger cam and intake and you'll be way faster. Big cam, small heads, you'll just be dissapointed in the results for the money spent...... IMHO

 

I disagree...........I see lots of guys around here running large camshafts with vortecs. The dirt car guys can't port them and they're reving up to 7,000 rpm's.........

 

Also look at Mike Crews..............I realize he did have his bowls blended but not much else. If it's true that vortec ports are patterned after a LT1 head. Then it would stand to reason that you could run a similar camshaft as the LT1 guys.........they seem to like a CC306 which is much larger than a ZZ4......

 

Maybe it's just me, but vortec-style heads seem underrated on these boards. Anything that isn't aluminum, or is less than 190cc sometimes seems to get bad-mouthed. They can't be too bad when the car magazines can run dyno tests, using healthy cams and untouched vortecs and make ~400hp.

and ominous_87 went 12.5/113+ mph in the quarter with those *tiny* 170cc (e-tec) heads.

Just food for thought.

(BTW, I'd go with the Hotcam.)

 

Just looking at the flow numbers vortecs are about like 6085's. Now it may be the case that vortecs can make more power cfm for cfm, but I'm saying that out of personal experience, I would guess the vortecs would not make good power over about 5200 rpm, even with HSR sitting on top. And also form personal experience, Hotcam does not make power below 3000 RPM. So a smaller duration cam would be a good choice if he wants a decently wide powerband.

 

The CC306 is a totally different ball park area. No one said that you can't run a large cam in the vortecs. What we are saying is if you do, you will not get as good results. If you want a higher reving motor, you need to spend money on what really matters, heads.

Also no one said because the runners are only 170 they will not make good power. The last issue of car craft saw a 383 LT1 with 180 AFRs make good power. Also 1bad91Z runs the vortecs and nets 12.XX.

It is the same reasoning why you would change gears, TC, or intake with a cam, to get all of the potential out of it.

 

Blah! run a small cam you'll be sorry you did. I don't understand why people are so afraid of decent sized camshafts.

 

Maybe you should look at what I have run and do run before you speak.

I had the LT1 cam, hot cam and then I had the CC306. I am not afraid of big cams. I speak with experience.

 

Nice duration on your cam "518" "528" hahaha!

 

whoa more 360* of duration.... your crazy

 

lol

I'm with Crew's on this one :-)

My 383 w/ vortec heads and TPI is running a Crane cam that comes out to about 215-216 intake and 221-222 duration on the exhaust with the lift right around .500 or so.

I built it with lower compression and boost is planned in the future. I think even with the smaller cam or not the car will be a torque pig. If I can hook it up on the track, it should also hopefully be well inot the 12's with some tuning and a little work.

The camshaft is as important as the heads and the intake. U need to know what runs where and how well it does it and make the best choices based on the entire package rather than this runner is 190cc or that cam is too small.

Bigger isnt always better, and moreso where camshafts are concerned. Put 300+ miles a week on a car like I was at the time and ask me which I cam I would have went with? :-) U have to be honest with what u r doing. If u drive it everywhere everyday, go smaller than u would if its a weekend only or track playtoy. This is where most people lie to themselves lol

later
Jeremy

 

Real men build matched engines

 

Nice duration on your cam "518" "528" hahaha!

 

I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. That's all I was trying to get him to do, match parts correctly. I never said the Vortec was junk, just that the ZZ4 was a better match for an "unported" head.

BTW, from what I have read, the bowl area is the biggest area for improvement of flow in the Vortec, so a bowl cleanup should have a great effect on flow. You can also add larger valves to them, but then again, it's no longer an untouched head is it?????

I said in my post that if the heads were to be unported, use the smaller cam. Porting the heads changes everything. However, I would still use the Fastburns with the Hot Cam over Vortecs anyday....

Also, I have no problem using a larger cam, just wanted better heads with it.....

 

Are you saying that the CC306's 230/244 duration is small also?

 

I don't guess you see your typo.................