I've been told that with a stock computer I can't put a cam in my car with more than a 220 duration and the LSA has to be 112 or 114!! My question I guess is this...... if I burn a custom chip can I use a cam with a larger duration and a 110 LSA???? Specifically, a cam with the following specs...... .462/.469 lift with a 218/224 duration and a 110 LSA!!! I'm not so much worried about the duration as I am the 110 LSA! On a different note, I don't understand what I've heard about the LSA needing to be 112 or 114 considering my '86 TPI Trans Am has a stock cam with a 108 LSA from what I've read!! Any insight on the cam and the LSA would be greatly appreciated!

------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 stroker w/TPI, Hedman Shorty Headers, 64cc Pocket Ported Worlds Product Sportsman-II heads, ported intake, comp cam, TPIS air foil, Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator, and 24 lb/hr SVO injectors!
Current project: Keeping my car running until I get the money for the above mentioned project! :-)

 

I don't think you understand camshaft theory yet. More research is in order.
You do not need an LSA of 112 or 114 with a duration as small as what you have now 178/194 @.050
Your stock cam has hardly any overlap as it is. The longer duration cams need a wider lobe sep to avoid a big overlap period.

and to answer your question, yes you can put that cam in there. It may have drivability problems and be a pain to tune for part throttle because of the excessive overlap & reversion in the intake tract.
The big question is, why would you want to put in a cam that big in there? Are you trying to go fast or you just like the choppy sound of a missfiring idle?
I am shooting for 9's next time at the track with my camaro naturally aspirated, and I will never run a bigger camshaft than I already have. See below

btw what tranny do you run?




------------------
*I do custom performance mods on Edlebrock Performer carburetors (dualplane intake mods in the works),
White 1986 Irocz, 305/383 with Edlebrock Performer-RPM intake and Performer #1407 carburetor, +110hp shot of crack, 700R-4 tranny, 3.25:1 rear, Mcreary Road-Stars, SLP-stainless 1.75" shortie headers & Y-pipe, single 3" Borla exhaust, Linginfelter-TPI camshaft part number 74216 pulls 17" vacuum solid. Cam specs 213/219 @.050 114-LSA, .462/.470 lift @1.5:1 ratio. MSD-6AL, billet distributor, multi-retard, blaster-3 coil, and RPM switch.
N/A runs 10.9 @124,
Crack-runs 10.3 @135
haven't run at track since Oct-99

 

Ok guy! First of all, I was looking for advice not criticism!! 2nd...I punched your "cam" into my dyno and it produces the EXACT same horsepower as the one I mentioned with just slightly less torque...not enough to make a difference!! Also, my friend and I laughed our asses off about the "misfiring idle" comment! That's classic considering the chopey idle has nothing to do with misfiring! LMAO!

Oh yeah, after you take off that Edlebrock carb and slap on a TPI setup ....THEN you can give me advice on MY TPI!!

------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 stroker w/TPI, Headman Shorty Headers, AFR 190cc Heads, ported intake, comp cam, TPIS air foil, Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (probably Holley), 24 lb/hr SVO injectors, and some sort of aftermarket ignition (undecided)!
Current project: Keeping my car running until I get the money for the above mentioned project! :-)

 

ODB,,, I usually keep a pretty open mind about things,, just because I can't do it,, doesn't mean it can't be done,,, but how in the bloody hell do you expect to run 9's naturally aspirated with a 213/219 cam. I gotta hear this one.

 

Where are you? when I'm ready to take it to the track you are invited to come watch, although I have a friend that video tapes most of my runs anyway.
I have many changes planned for the car, but not a camshaft swap. It will basically be the same combination as I have now. Part of the difference in ET will be from running Mickey Thompson ET streets and launching a little harder.
For the runs you see in my sig, I was on treaded Mcrearys and feathering the throttle off the line from 1200 RPMs. The best 60ft I got with this method was 1.58
I expect a harder launch to be good for high 1.3 to low 1.4 range and add a mph or two by the 60ft mark.
My biggest power addition to the combo will be some experimental carb and intake mods.
I'm also adjusting the exhaust slightly by changing collectors and going with a 3.5" pipe and electronic cutout.
Oh and those runs were without any type of ram-air setup. My old ramair setup was good for about 27 rwhp, but it had some problems and caused me to lean out on the big end. I am building a much better setup and plan to solve the leanout problem as well.
So there you have it. Anything else I can explain to make you feel better?

and for 86tpi, I was just being honest and didn't mean to offend. I raced with TPI on my 305 Iroc for 6 years and only ran a best of 11.8 @115. I thought it was junk and swapped to a carb, and I've never been happier. I will never put TPI on anything else I drive... sorry.
And also I would never use your software dyno. I weigh my car and run at the track and use trapspeed to figure my power.
So tell me how does the internet-racer compare camshafts on a computer? how does it know the ramp-speeds of my cam? what about airflow numbers for my intake ports? backpressure? chamber efficiency?
I have more doubts about you than you have about me.



------------------
*I do custom performance mods on Edlebrock Performer carburetors (dualplane intake mods in the works),
White 1986 Irocz, 305/383 with Edlebrock Performer-RPM intake and Performer #1407 carburetor, +110hp shot of crack, 700R-4 tranny, 3.25:1 rear, Mcreary Road-Stars, SLP-stainless 1.75" shortie headers & Y-pipe, single 3" Borla exhaust, Linginfelter-TPI camshaft part number 74216 pulls 17" vacuum solid. Cam specs 213/219 @.050 114-LSA, .462/.470 lift @1.5:1 ratio. MSD-6AL, billet distributor, multi-retard, blaster-3 coil, and RPM switch.
N/A runs 10.9 @124,
Crack-runs 10.3 @135
haven't run at track since Oct-99

 

86TPI, oh you're in Aurora Mo. That's very close so you can come race me at Gateway when you get your 383TPI running.
Maybe we can do a realworld cam comparison at the track and see just how bad my advice is. I'll even let you hook a vacuum gauge up to test my idle for 'misfires'.
So how do you explain the choppy sounding idle then? maybe fuel burning in the exhaust? hmmm wonder how that got there.

 

OBD, what heads are you using? I ask that because you don't mention it.

 

Also, what do you mean by 305/383?

 

ok i was wondering.... i HAVE a carb and at least i know thw difference between a 305 and a 383 they arent the same damn thing... 305...3.735 BORE! AND 383..4.030 WAAAAYYYY DIFFERENT!!! just curious do you think a 335 and 377 are the same thing ???? just curious!! also its a rough idle! caused by low mainfold vacummm not a damn misfire also...big difference!!! and why are using a tpi cam with a carb???? is there a point here yes you need to learn about cams TPI...CARB..ALSO DIFFERENT!! are you afraid your car might sound good with a rough idle, or you mistaking it with a "misfire" again a rough idle sounds better than your rice burner sound!! and yes i will race you!! i think your just all talk and NOT correct talk at that!remember a 305 and 383 are different!

------------------
1989 firebird formula

Mods: converted from T.B.I. to a carburator 305 to a 350. Flowmater exhaust,hedman shortie hedders,202 160 (882) heads,.447/.447 lift 222@.050 duration speed pro 327/350hp cam 350 .40 over (356) Edlebrock torker2 and a 600 edlebrock manual choke (1405)

Future mods performer rpm air gap intake (polished) comp roller cam, and way better headsa 400 defintely in the works!

 

ODB,

I told you on a previous post I'm from Jackson, Ms. Unfortunatly to far away or I would take you up on the offer you made "86" in my my 85 Monte Carlo SS. I shouldn't cause it ain't running 10.90's off the bottle, but it was set up for the spray,,, which I have a lot of,,, and appearently would need if you get any quicker than you already are. However, I've got a friend that lives in your area and I know he would love to see your car run. Just let me know when you get ready to go to Gateway.

 

also you run 9's OFF the bottle ,...yeah right my friend has a 383 STROKER..yes different from a 305! it makes about oh 600hp in a little s-10 and he can't run 9's off the bottle so i know damn well your "ENGINE" wont come even close. just answer peoples questions and dont try to know all because no one knows everything about how a engine operates! about your answer for 86 tpi transam's question response i think you need to learn a little more about a "ENGINE" before you go and criticise someone for asking a simple question thats why he asked is because he really didnt know! not to hear you put him down! i think you need to learn more about camshafts! and how too be a little more polite to a complete stranger asking a simple question!

------------------
1989 firebird formula

Mods: converted from T.B.I. to a carburator 305 to a 350. Flowmater exhaust,hedman shortie hedders,202 160 (882) heads,.447/.447 lift 222@.050 duration speed pro 327/350hp cam 350 .40 over (356) Edlebrock torker2 and a 600 edlebrock manual choke (1405)

Future mods performer rpm air gap intake (polished) comp roller cam, and way better headsa 400 defintely in the works!

 

Please guys, don't turn this into a personal attack or anything. I was just curious about a few things that are unclear from the signature. It's not fair to jump to conclusions until all the facts have been clarified.

Yes, the cam looks small for high 10's N/A, even in a 383, and a 700R4 would be "tranny dust" unless significantly built; and 10's are still tough on even a built 700R4. But it is still not fair to call "horse do-do" until you have heard all the facts.

 

OBD,
Don't take no $hit from nobody. If they don't wanna listen, that's their problem. Most of the nonsense that has been said is coming from people with slow cars. Many of them claim to know everything, but have to go to their mommies for a tune up.
Just chill bro!
I'm not the fastest, but I'm ahead of 99% of all the crack-heads in this board.
Rick


------------------
'88 GTA 350
Headers, catback, free mods, Xtreme energy cam, intake pieces and 2100 RPM TQ

13.40@102.55 MPH
1.90 Sec ------- Best 60FT
104.23 MPH -- Best Trap Speed

AIM HIGH!

 

I assumed a 305 with 383HP when I read it.

------------------
1989 IROC-Z 5.7L

 

:lol

 

Hey rick, when I get my 383 done I guess I'll be in the 1% OF CRACKHEADS that you AREN'T ahead of...especially if you're only running 13's! LMAO!! If there were less criticizing a**holes like you and ODB on here, this board would be a much better place!!

As for ODB! I believe you did run 10.9.....ON A 1000 FT. TRACK! That would compute to about 12.9 1/4 mile time! That sounds more like it! LOL!

------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 stroker w/TPI, Headman Shorty Headers, AFR 190cc Heads, ported intake, comp cam, TPIS air foil, Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (probably Holley), 24 lb/hr SVO injectors, and some sort of aftermarket ignition (undecided)!
Current project: Keeping my car running until I get the money for the above mentioned project! :-)

[This message has been edited by 86TpiTransAm (edited February 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by 86TpiTransAm (edited February 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by 86TpiTransAm (edited February 06, 2001).]

 

You know what the saddest part of all is...ODBs first post was completely true and accurate, but 86TA still felt the need to tear into him.

You don't want a lot of overlap with TPI for one simple reason..reversion (hmm, do i see that word in this post anywhere) The long tuned runnners of TPI do not take kindly to the kind of overlap that carbed cars can so effectively make power with. I have a clear picture of why in my head, however explaining it to kids who probably barely passed high school would make my head hurt as it requires a good understanding of fluid dynamics, SHM, as well as camshaft theory. If you had this kind of understanding i wouldn't be posting in the first place (damnit glenn, i'm trying not to come to personal attacks, but god i hate morons who talk big.)

If you came here to learn and share then let's get on with it. You recieved a sound answer from ODB, yet tore him up anyway. Why cuz he doesn't run TPI and his ETs seem a little low for his combo. I bet i knew more about TPI before i ever drove it, then you EVER will. What does that have to do with his answer? I admit that i don't agree with some of the things i've seen him suggest around here, but that doesn't make him all bad.

And if you try a few combinations of search terms i am sure you will find a plethora of people's experiences with cams. And i'm sure you will find that noone who ran anything like what you are describing with TPI (esp an LB9) was terribly happy with how they ran.

And in the meantime, if you want people to fear your future HP, i'd take the airfoil and AFPR out of the list of plans...they really demonstrate your knowledge level. Why? Becuase noone worth taking seriously would list either as a mod, especially on a future project.
...ed

ps...but my opinion probably doesn't count either as i only moderate the carb board, so i obviously don't know anything about TPI.

------------------
Ed Maher - Moderator @ The Carb Board
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
LB9 4L60 GU2 G80 - stock, soon to be sleeper

- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die

 

And again, the criticizm continues!! What's up with all you "know it alls"! Just because you spend so much time learning about cars that makes you BETTER....I doubt it! And the comment about barely finishing high school was a bit childish don't ya think!? The REASON I "tore up" ODB as you put it was simply this......he criticized my understanding of cams and said I should research it more! I KNOW this already....if I knew a lot about cams I wouldn't have posted the topic....obviously!! Another reason was his comment about a "misfiring idle"!! I may not know MUCH about cams but at least I know the choppy idle is caused by low manifold vacuum and not a "misfire"!! All I need is a STRAIGHT FORWARD answer...not criticizm about the type of cam I want to go with!! You probably wouldn't like it if you asked a simple question about a carb and someone came in and criticized you for wanting to use a carb over FI!!? We all know everyone has their own "preference" about what they want to use....so have some f*cking courtesy and answer the question straight forward without the criticizm! And there IS a difference between criticizm and advice or opinions....so don't even come back with that one!

P.S. If a moderator could close this thread it would be great because this has gotten out of hand!

------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 stroker w/TPI, Headman Shorty Headers, AFR 190cc Heads, ported intake, comp cam, TPIS air foil, Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (probably Holley), 24 lb/hr SVO injectors, and some sort of aftermarket ignition (undecided)!
Current project: Keeping my car running until I get the money for the above mentioned project! :-)

 

Tearing ODB up because he told you to do more research was completely uncalled for. He gave you a short version of the answer you needed, beyond that, there aren't many people around here who feel like writing a few pages to explain it all. We'll help you as much as we can, but we're not gonna spoon feed you this.
And as to the choppy idle being caused by low manifold vacuum. Please explain to me what low manifold vacuum has to do with the incomplete combustion in the chamber. I'll save you the trouble. There is incomplete combustion b/c big cams don't effectively maintain compression at low rpms. The choppy idle is because of this inefficiency. An easy way to demonstrate this is to retard the *** out of your timing. Notice how your idle now sounds like crap, but yet has that lope/roll to it. Also note that your manifold vacuum would be lower. Another big element to that classic cam 'sound' is fuel continuing to burn in the exhaust...which is due to it not being completely burnt in the chamber when the exhaust valve opens...which is not completely burnt b/c the effective compression in the chamber was lower, thus burnt slower (hmm, kinda like how with big compression fuel burns too fast and you get knock, only opposite.) While not a misfire in the way we normally think of it (where a miss is a complete lack of spark), it is a 'mis' fire as in it didn't fire very well.

Hope that helps you understand a little better. Like i said, if you're here to learn and share let's get on with it. But don't tear up people who obviously have more knowledge and experience than you b/c it doesn't make sense to you. And don't ask to be spoon fed. I can see it now, when you get to burning the chip for this combo or your next are you gonna ask where to start on the PROM board then flame everybody for telling you to read up.
...ed

 

thank you moderator.

86TPI, I'm sorry. I didn't really mean to sound so critical. I just tried to help by offering another opinion. It is always to your advantage to get all the info you can to make the best decisions.
I am not a cam guru. John Lingenfelter is and I trust his own research. He designs his own cam profiles and designed the one in my car. I'm sure I could not have done any better than he did.
good luck

 

I appreciate the apology ODB!! However, to the "moderator".....I think I'm just going to ignore you since you continue to criticize! At least TRAXION is a GOOD moderator!! He's the ONLY one who's be nice enough to give me "usable" information that DID help!! Prior to your post, TRAXION gave me a web site to look at and it explained the "lope" ....so I already knew everything you told me in that post!! Now see, wouldn't it have been much simpler for you just to give me a web site to look at .....I think so!! But, hey, you're a *cough* moderator *cough* so you know it all and shouldn't have to help others that don't quite know as much!!

------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 stroker w/TPI, Headman Shorty Headers, AFR 190cc Heads, ported intake, comp cam, TPIS air foil, Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (probably Holley), 24 lb/hr SVO injectors, and some sort of aftermarket ignition (undecided)!
Current project: Keeping my car running until I get the money for the above mentioned project! :-)

 

86, you have mail...

 

OBD. I can't believe you apologized to 86crack-head-TA. you ain't my boy no more. Damn you man; I stood behind you because you were right and know this!

So, anyway, what do you run in the 1/4 again 86TA??? Please don't tell me high 15s.

What really pisses me off is that people come here and ask things they don't know, but when you give them an answer, then they know more than everybody else and tell you "you stupid"

I'm buying me a BeEtle!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHhHAHAHhaHAHhAAHHHAAHHHAAYYYEEEEEEEEASDJDFH$hit!

 

WHERE MY CRACKHEADS AT???

 

oh, by the way, MR. 86TpiTransAm-crackhead-airfoil-afpr-383
I really loved your "poetry" page....that was so000o sweet. It touched my heart very deeply, right where my water pump is. I love you baby.
Muah!

ps: ok, bye!

 

hello! anybody home!
what?
NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo0000!!!!!!
I didn't do it!

ps: I'm on BS patrol