So a mazda v6 turbo sedan beat my L98 crated camaro tonight. i dont know why, but it tells me something is wrong someone give me some advice on a good setup.. specs are as follows...

-GM Performance Crate Motor (260hp/350tq. 8.5:1)
-Map TPI, airfoil, k & n, SLP runners
-Accel 19lb injectors (was told by mopac that they can flow up to 500 ponies....)
-flowtech shorties, 3'' mandral bent exhaust no cats flowmaster 80 series.
-MSD 6AL, distributor,wires, etc

now my doubts..... 2.73 gears, no computer tuning, stock fuel pump and regulator (have new walbro pump and holley reg sitting right here). Im definitely thinking its a fuel issue, or lack there of.... If anyone has a somewhat same setup, it would sweet if you could maybe inform me on fuel pressures used... maybe a performance chip too. cause im not resting until my camaro can eat alive any *****s that pull up beside me.

 

your gears are good papeweights for sure......... get 3.23s or 3.42s find a junkyard rearend or 1 listed on the bored here and swapem. As for the afpr install it and bump it up a couple psi you probably need it since you have some bolt ons and are using smaller injectors than you should be.

as for the fuel pump it would probably be fine but, replacing it surely won't hurt.

 

well to start your L98 computer is programmed for 22ib injectors so youre running lean unless you tune it into the computer or get 22ib injectors. next your stock tpi base is holding you back even stock 350 it holds back either port it or buy aftermarket. the gears are really hurting you. and the computer needs to be tuned since you have a crate motor which has different heads and cam which your factory prom is tuned for. everyone here is going to say learn to do it yourself and buy the equiptment because mail order sucks. and that motor was probably rated with a carb im thinking and possibly engine dyno which makes actual numbers a lot lower since you have a restrictive tpi and drivetrain loss. then even after all that turbo v6s are nothing to really sneeze at. theyre quick cars. o and now i just saw that motor has low compression you could mill the heads or get different heads as long as they flow as well if not better with smaller combustion chambers such as 67cc or 58cc for a 350 unless your pistons are dished then youll need the 58s for sure. if you want best bang for the buck to beat most things that come your way toss a nice 125-150 shot on your motor and youll outrun plenty of cars on the street with ease.

 

yeah i have a 150 shot kit but, but am kind of hesitant to put it on this motor. but as for gears, i know a guy who is selling a 9 bolt 3.27 posi out of a 87 iroc, and he only wants 200 bucks for it. is it even worth it? This car isnt a commuter or dd, so i'd definitely go with a 3.73 or 4.11. the reason i got this motor is because i was reading superchevy magazine back in december, and they took the same crate motor and put a vortec supercharger on it and pumped out some decent numbers. im planning on supercharging it very soon, but i want to get the basics figured out first.

 

i think 4.11 gears would be to much for the engine you have now.
might be better with the supercharger. depends on when you the supercharger hooked up.
i would pick up the rearend if it was a posi. i think $200 is a good price

im planning on getting 4.11 gears but im also going to be running taller tires.

 

Well, I hate to state the obvious here, but that's a GOODWRENCH 350 motor, It isn't a high performance motor. It's a truck replacement motor straight out of the 70s with crappy heads and cam to match.

That 260hp figure is with NOTHING attached to it, no alternator or A/C or power steering, nothing- run through headers with a big 4 barrel carb on top. 8.5:1 compression is weak. It's probably making about the same power as your original 305 was, if not less.

What you need is a new top end. New cam, new heads. Consider ditching the TPI - it's worthless. Maybe a new valvetrain while you're at it. The bottom end is fine. It's still a 350. But those smogger heads and cam are absolutely terrible for performance.

And even if you put some good L98 heads on it with an L98 cam and got the TPI tuned properly, it'd still only hit about 250hp. You need to cherry pick a whole new top end for that motor that will work for you. You can make the TPI work for you, but for the money you need to invest to realize it's potential, you're much better off moving to another system. Figure out what you want to do with it. Your heads, cam, and induction are all going to have to work together.

It's not the fuel pump, the top end of that motor just sucks. Flowtech headers are also weak, but better than manifolds at least.

 

I am confused as to why you say tpi is useless...

 

I'm with it on gears, small injectors, tune. I'd say 3.23, 24# svo, tune.

 

InfernalVortex...I Love You(don't worry I'm a chick)!!! Someone else who EXPLOITS THE TRUTH!!!! Those engines aren't really cracked up to what you pay for....it IS a truck motor...check your heads they're probably swirl heads...you've probably got the wrong internal set-up working against eachother. You can't tune them...to get a slight spark advance your probalby pinging at higher RPMS....SORRY CAMAROCARNAGE, I don't mean to sound rude or an *******....but I've seen through MANY builds...everyone tries to save money by getting a long block...don't get me wrong thats not a BAD idea but you get an untuned motor, and when you begin to put parts onto it...now even more issues come about(a/f ratio, ect...)

As far as TPI is concerned, it DOES SUCK...lets have thinking time...put your caps on guys. Since the mid-80's this set up was granted as much credit as the multi-spark(cross fire a.k.a. cease fire) set up. Fuel delivery is not the issue when TPI is concerned. Its air delivery...Think about this...air WILL ONLY travel in ONE direction unless diverted otherwise...air enters the TPI plenum and smashes into the back of the plenum, then finds its way down the back 1/2 of the runners. When you break down Hp and your looking for every little number....this matters ALOT. All TPI dyno number curves decend after 4000 RPMS...why..because the air is only properly supplying the back half of the engine( I've pulled apart heads to see the carbon difference).

IF you are looking for GOOD HP from a TPI set-up, get a Hi-Flo intake, port a set of Siamese runners and MOST IMPORTANTLY...get it DYNO TUNED...Numbers don't lie...Iv'e seen this sooooo many times I really want to scream.

You got beat by a v6 beacuse it was better tuned, weighed less, and it was a turbo(EVEN if it was stock..where your engine starves for air/fuel, the turbo forces what it needs) I'm Sorry to come off sounding like an *** but knowledge is power..the more you learn the more power you can find

 

CAMAROCARGANGE-I know your really gonna hate my but the engine block specs you have are all ratings at the flywheel, I've seen camaros...with long block 350's with the best tune they can get ONLY have 185hp to the wheels

 

As a guy who owns a turbo 4 cylinder, a turbo 6 cylinder, a traditional carb'd V8, and a modern V8... as well as a TPI motor with a lot of work done to it; I have learned the TPI motor is not going to hold up in a race against any of them. Well maybe the Turbo Dodge.

This is not to say that the TPI design is a boat anchor on a good day, but rather it is a good torque motor. If you want to run with the other engines on the block you'll need to play to the strengths of the TPI system. Tuned cylinder filling is the name of the game. Not revs, not boost or nitrous. Build bigger cubes and fill them within the parameters of the system.

I have seen boosted 350+ ci TPI motors and they work fine for what they are. However, as someone with experience jamming air into the cylinders of an engine that shouldn't have boost on it... the TPI motor fairs no better.

That said...

The best thing you can do is buy good heads, a good cam, a single plane FI manifold and slap that on top of your Goodwrench 350 and get it tuned. Change the nature of the engine. It worked on the Goodwrench 350 in my MCSS... which goes mid-12s @ 110+ on 87 octane, at full weight.

 

AMigs87IROCz, A chick that knows about cars and motors and what not, and drives a camaro.........tell me do you have a twin sister that is single and lives down south??? you could sell blinker fluid, skeeter clutch adjusting valves, and blinker fluid resonaters to all the gals around here, and plus they are all ...... well i cant say it because it would break good conduct

 

AM, not sure if he was saying he wants to change parts or not. But yea, to do it right he needs to change some major parts. But to tweak what he has, main thing is lack of fuel IMO.


Now onto what else you said, and motormike. These engines old in design. The ratings these motors put out factory are what the 2.0 civics are putting out now... naturally asperiated. Let alone boosted.

These cars are old and oudated in technology and heavy to boot. And while had decent aerodynamics back then, its nothing now. Your going to have to put alot of work into to beat modern cars. Plus you will ALWAYS find someone faster. Drive it for what it is, an Classic American Muscle Car!!


btw, I have a 350 crate motor in my car as well. My old 3.4 camaro would walk off and leave this sucker. And my grandprix.. it will smoke it like a philly blut at a concert.

 

Forget all the L98 crap. What you have is the Goodwrench 350 with TPI. The 260HP claims are based on an Edelbrock intake, 4bbl carb and good 1-5/8" headers. I really like this engine for what it is. With a better cam it could make a car fun to drive but not a stop light warrior without a head swap.
I don’t know what kind of ECM you are running but I’m going to guess it’s for a 305. You need to get 22lb injectors and a 350 prom before you do anything else. You will need a custom prom once you make more changes.
The cam is way too mild and should be replaced with something more aggressive. I would also replace the lower intake with an Edelbrock one. From what I have read the heads are similar to the old 882 castings. Light porting would definitely help out. The Flowtech Shorty headers with their 1-1/2" tubes are not the best but are better than manifolds.
I would swap gears to 3.42s.

 

i'm with this guy at least 90%

you also need a knock sensor for a 350 engine.

the flowtech headers are junk but, aren't currently holding you back
also agree the heads are junk but, also not currently the biggest thing holding u back.

if it were me and i was on a tight budget throw a lt1 cam in it after the 350 prom, 22lb injectors, and 350 knock sensor.

the lt1 cam will probably run you 50$ or less shipped

a top end gasket kit will cost you 100$ i'd say

the heads i would at least use the thinnest gaskets i could on which will help at least get you up to the 8.8to cr range. then mildly work the bowls....

i'll bet after all of my above afformentioned stuff you will gain an easy 50hp and be a bit quicker than a factory l98 car once again.

 

I think I said it pretty well in my post:

It's expensive to make TPI fast, and at teh end of the day, it's still a system built to provide torque, fuel economy, and low emissions - not horsepower. Horsepower is, by definition, making torque at high RPM's. TPI doesn't do that very well. There's a reason GM went to the short-runner LT1 intake later on. It sacrificed torque, but it made lots of high end horsepower. Same with the LS1 motors. They dont make nearly hte kind of low end torque these TPI systems are designed to make, but they're much, much faster because they were designed to flow at high RPMs. You can get bigger, ported runners and put lipstick on a pig if you want, but it's still just a TPI system that's tuned for torque with those long runners.


The huge chambers in those heads are what hurts... they can flow all the air in the world, but it's still only 8.5:1 compression. 083 heads aren't that expensive and if you're taking it apart to put thinner gaskets in it, to me you'd be better off getting real L98 083 casting heads. But that's just me. We essentially agree on the points that matter, though.

 

ok .. easy fix ..

throw some 22# injectors .. maybe a little bigger for what im about to say ..

then with that compression ration ..

TURBO THE CRAP OUT OF IT.. and throw the nitrous on it .. maybe even twin turbo

i can guarantee that a turbo v8 will beat a turbo v6 ..

and then when you blow it up .. dig out your "goodwrench warranty" .. take the motor back .. and use that money to build you a real motor ..

lol ..

 

ok guys, well im not looking to push huge numbers or run 10 seconds.. but i know that this motor has potential. this motor is basically MADE for boosting, which is what im going to do. im gonna get some afr heads, i have a comp cam xtreme energy cam, 1.6 rr, and maybe a different tb. is it worth it too supercharge a TPI motor though? i havent seen very many sc'd tpi cars. im only wanting to get it in the 13's, maybe 12's. not a race car, but a mean street car.

 

ps, i only paid 800 bucks for the whole setup from a buddy, and it was a HUGE increase over my LO3. i was going to go ls1 instead, but i thought i'd give this a shot first

 

Its only a 12 month or 12,000 mile warrenty in this application provided you dont tear into it. Since this guy is not even the origional owner I would say he has no warrenty.

 

No the motor is not made for boosting with its cast pistons.

 

lol .. i was just joking about the warranty ..

but you wont have to tear into it .. just bolt a turbo kit to it and turn it ALL the way up ..

hahahh .. i'd like to see the look on the dealers face when you tell them "it just stopped working" .. lol

 

89RS_82Z-No I don't have a twin sister....I'm sure I'm one in a zuberillion and the second thing against you...I'm here up in the Northern half of the USA....

Now-CAMAROCARNAGE...I checked some dyno numbers...350 longblock made 184hp to the rear wheels....unfortunately it is what it is....the good thing though is you have Chevys single handed BEST and MOST versitile motor EVER. Yea LS1's make power...yea there all aluminum..but its a WHOLE different world. Just a guess, an LS1 engine in drop in and run condition, all the engine/computer management, sensors, ect....you'll be at an EASY $11,000

Tear your top end down...make sure(w/someone who KNOWS their stuff) you have a good bottom end, pistons, crank. Then slap in a nice, but not too lumpy cam, roller lifters/rockers, hell splurge on some 'vette aluminum heads..put a good intake and depending on your preference FI or carb...NOW I can't stress it enough to get it DYNO TUNED!!! Either fuel injection, or carbbed the dyno is quite arguably the best way to have all your parts WORK TOGETHER...best investment you can do. I've seen gains in hp and tq from 20%-60% more!!

 

[quote=AMigs87IROCz;3629809]89RS_82Z-No I don't have a twin sister....I'm sure I'm one in a zuberillion and the second thing against you...I'm here up in the Northern half of the USA....quote]


o well, i just think its cool that a gal has that kind of passion for cars, its something you dont see alot of....keep up the good work hun.....im sure you make some guys mad when you shame them with what you know, or beat them when they try to run you

sorry to get off the topic on here guys & gal(s)

 

Use that longblock, swap out the heads for real L98 iron's

do some port work to them, get them machined to handle .525 lift safely

get a real cam. looking for a up to 5500rpm peak power. something in the 218-224 duration on the intake range is great. i like roller cams, not sure what that block has. proby flat tappet. xe268 or something should work fine

siamese the hell out the TPI. Get SLP runners, siamesed too

Get tuned

with 3.42 gears and sticky tires with 2800 stall, it will go mid 12's depending on the cam and car weight

should handle most typical imports...but in todays world you cant stop at 12's...you need 10's and 11's. I'm building a 500hp+ 383, hopefully 650 on nitrous and i'm still nervous about the cars around me.

 

This engine does not have a roller cam in it stock. Does anyone know if the block is set up for one? He might be stuck with a non roller cam unless he wants to spend a lot.

 

Its well enough known that the TPI motor has an athsmatic problem in the higher RPMs but whats also true, is that the TPI is a great Torque motor. So, use it to your advantage. Get good street tires, for a great launch and use that torque perfectly. Great gear ratios, (3.73 can't hurt) a stall converter (if auto) and on top of doing the rest of the tricks/goodies listed. You'll have a good setup. Use what you got to the advantage. Camaros always had Torque, and were a street car, use it as such, street light to street light, block to block. As long as you make it to that next light faster than the next guy, you win. And thats what these cars are based by. HP=Speed but Torque=Acceleration

 

Hey Carnage, are you here in Calgary?

 

i dont think you'll ever get to hook up TPI power to the street. i know i couldnt do it well. my car would even spin the ET streets on the road, and thats after heating them up some. My HSR intake did the same thing and i lost alittle peak torque but gained more midrange. I have alot of suspension work too. I hit 1.70-1.72 60 foots at the track. 1.74 with the TPI

 

first off, no im not in calgary. im in vancouver! its a pretty good scene here though. beautiful for cruisin. and for the motor.... i HAVE and xe268 cam sitting here right beside me along with the 1.6rr's. the motor already has slp runners on it. so today i put on the holley regulator and accel gauge. i crank it over and it runs good. WAYY more power, its like i cranked the cowbell to 11. it was all good until the diaphram in the regulator BLEW THE **** UP, and spewed fuel all over my headers, which ignited! luckily i had a fire extinguisher in the car. i got the fire out super fast, and didnt do any electrical damage but i had to swap back in the old regulator on the side of the road, now im stuck with the old one again for now. when it was running, i had it at 49 psi! and it made up for the 19LB injectors.

 

yeah 19lb injectors at 49 psi make it act like 20.3's you need some fuel in that thing

 

.....This will probably be your BEST bet CAMAROCARNAGE....I will ONLY say this from experience. A fully built engine (355ci) with a VERY similar set up, your average times will be about 13.5-14.0et's
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.....and it should chew up and **** out the damn v6 turbo

 

I'll take that bet.

I'll also bet you have never been in a Turbo V6 car... Because if you've had, you wouldn't be making statements about mid-13 second cars beating Turbo 6s. I am quite certain my Buick could seperate your panties from your butt.

 

If his is the same 638/683?? block I have, yes it is. Mounts are there, already drilled n tapped.

 

Everyone's missing what this dudes main problem is.........

"ps, i only paid 800 bucks for the whole setup from a buddy, and it was a HUGE increase over my LO3. i was going to go ls1 instead, but i thought i'd give this a shot first"

Tell me you're not still running the LO3 fuel pump...... If so, then that (along with the 305 injectors) is your biggest problem, and it needs to be addressed immediately. The L03 pump was only capable of making and maintaining 12-15psi of pressure during sustained WOT. L98/LB9's need to make about 43 psi @ WOT. If you have'nt burned any holes in the tops of you pistons, or ruined any valves from running dead lean yet. Go get the L98 EPROM, knock sensor, and 22 lb injectors. There's no sense in African engineering the thing. Whatever you do though, replace that pump before firing it up again.

 

second that, you need a electric fuel pump setup like L98's have to run that motor.

once you get 22lb injectors and L98 prom you can start messing with cam/intake mods.

you can make that car pretty quick on a relatively small engine budget, its just gonna need all the details worked out and well setup suspension/converter/gears to run best times.

 

no its not the original pump LOL. the first time i started the motor was with the original pump, but all it could do was idle. i took a pump from a 86 2.8 MPFI firebird, which is the EXACT same part number as an L98 pump. and also, i came from an LO3, not and LB9. its a new computer and everything. the only reason i have the 19lb injectors is because the old ones were sticking open and flooding the motor. ps, the rail mount gauge reads about 35psi at idle, then when you give it gas it jumps to about 43. is that about right? and thats with the stock regulator back in.

 

seems to be about right

 

Good, good. Just wanted to make sure you were'nt fighting something as fubared as that.


Cool, so long as you're running a 350 EPROM, (computers are the same between lb9's and l98's) and knock sensor.

That sounds about perfect. Now, just swap in some 22# injectors and you should be ready to start modding....

Oh, you should check and see that you're maintaining that 43 PSI at WOT under load in 3rd gear. You'll have to tape the fuel pressure gauge to the windsheild to get a reading.
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Sorry, also meant to say that if you are maintaining the 43 psi @ WOT to the top of 3rd, I'd hold off on installing the new pump. As you know, that's not a job you wanna do unless you need to.