Ok, I'm sure this has been addressed MANY times over but here it is again - What would be a good size injecter for my car? I am thinking 22lb but I would like some input before I buy.
What I have:
85 Trans AM TPI
350 bored 40 (yes it orignally had a 305)
Stock heads w/20cc dished pistons forabout 10.5 compression
Larger lift cam (don;t recall specs but stock profile just bigger lift)
1.6 roller rocker valve train
Hypertech Thermal chip which cuase car to run around 165deg
Edelbrock headers, y-pipe & full 3in exhaust
I have also checked air flow due to MAF sensor. I have read that I can read a max of 255gm/s & I am at 230gm/s

Now with all that info, would I be good at 22lb-24lb and if so, does anyone have a suggestion as to a brand? And does anyone have a guess that sort of HP I might have with that set up?

Thanks!

 

22# was stock L98 (350)

24# Bosch/Ford M9593-a302

HP will never be enough, never.

 

Yeah, go 24#

I've actually got a set of the Bosch/Fords on the way! We'll see what they do once I get the tune.

 

Ok, so I was in the right range. Ok, my next question is do I stick with design 2 or go with design 3? Some have said you can put design 3 in without out any mods other have said that you have to mod the connectors or buy adapters, so does anyone know which is correct?

 

I bought these exact injectors. They are EV1. Is this what you mean by design? ....they clip/attach directly to the injector harnesses like the stock injectors. The actual injectors themselves require no computer modifications whatsoever. A tune is required for the computer to know that they're 24# not 22#, but the injector itself is plug and play.

I actually got them today, and since it's come up quite often lately, I plan to do a write up comparing the stock injector to these. As far as I can tell, the only non-cosmetic difference is that when clipped into the fuel rail, the Ford injector's O-ring isn't as far down into the manifold, but still PLENTY far to avoid leaks. -and the actual nozzle is actually a little farther down inside. Anyhow, I plan to measure and photograph all these MINOR little differences before installation.

 

Design 2 are short & fat, design 3 are long & skinny. I have seen some say that the 3's have a different style of connector

 

I guess I'm not following.

You're looking for a 24# injector, there are several brands available, and arguably the BEST is Bosch/Ford, which are also among the cheapest. They are stock type EV1 injectors that are direct connect, AND the actual part number is listed in this thread......

.....but if you want to know if you should pay more money, for an off brand with lesser quality that may require custom harnesses........

......ummmm well I guess, sure, give it a shot and let us know.....

 

You got the right advice above. 24#/hr Ford Rcing injectors EV1. While you are at it, install an AFPR and a good fuel pressure gauge.

 

The o rings are smaller to. Use the gm ones (bigger). Be sure to install the clips, or leaks will be likely to happen, more so with higher fuel line pressures.
A little oil will help things to slide together.

Design 1 is the pintle type. Design 2 is the disc type. Design 3 is ??

Doc what HP level where you at with your 24's (at static) 400 or so ??

 

Yes, please do the write up

 

pandin:

I pulled 340 RWHp with my 395 stroker using 24#/hr Ford injectors @ 52psi fuel pressure, with no tuning. Now I may be pulling 350/355 after tuning, but whatever it is, I am maxed out on these injectors. BTW: 350 RWHp would equate to about 400 Hp at the flywheel.

 

The m9593-a302 are the Design 2.

At least mine are. They have 4 small output holes instead of one.

I think the new stuff has 6.

Thanks Doc.

Always nice to have a little "real world" to compare to the paper HP.

 

Yep, mine too.

 

design 3 are the new "pencil" type, started in 02 or 03. I have read that they have a different style of connector.

Abubaca - You mention getting a "tune" done on the computer so it knows that they are 22# instead of 19#, Where/how can i get that done?

 

OK, yeah, I know what you mean. I thought you were talking about injectors for OUR cars. (Meaning "intended" for OUR cars, not LS style motors) The Ford injectors we keep talking about are certainly NOT the "pencil" style.

Well, some will tell you that you can purchase the necessary equipment to do this yourself. Along with changing simple things like injector size, fan switch temps etc. etc., you can learn how to completely tune every tiny detail of how your car operates. I've read quite a bit about it, and it's truly fascinating, and impressive how much these guys can do. I would NEVER try to talk anyone out of doing this.

....but you can also have this done for you professionally. I personally am having mine done by Alvin at PCMforLess. He's got quite a good reputation going for himself, and at least for ME, he's a NC local, which I like to support whenever possible. For $200, he's gonna take care of the injectors, AND lots of other little things here and there. Some of which are easy, some of which I'm relying on his experience. Ed Wright at Fastchips is also a 'nother well known source, and I'm sure if you call around to your local speed shops, they'll be able to recommend someone.

 

i have all the answers for this ford/bosch ev1, and design 3, right plug wrong plug questions.

i have a 85 trans am 350. my stock injectors finally gave out 107,000 miles.
i am on a bugjet and love to research. heres what i found out.

the stock multec is rated at 229cc/min flow. thats about 22lbs/hr, i went to the dealer first.. you gotta be kiddin. 650 for the injectors. so i started reading posts. and calling guys in the business. i was told that the ford design 3 made for fords prior to 99 had the same plug as mine. the injector is the plastic one. now i see the same injector at 22 and 19lbs. now i'm confused. so i called a buddy that runs corvettes and he told me to put in the fords. they work in all the 350 vettes. being that the ford was made for a 98 or lower to get that plug. he explained and tested this himself. the fords that these injectors go on and were rated by part number only used fuel rail pressure of 37. my car is 43.5psi. the dynamics of a fuel injectors performance or flow is directly in relationship to the pressure that feeds them. he has checked the flow on a special machine and at 43.5 the ford injector now flows 224cc/min. about 21.85 lbs. they also are a little shorter than the gm. he told me how to put them in. you put them in the manifold first. no clips. i later found out the clips were only used to hold the assembly together for assembly line. then put the fuel rail on. the injector o rings seal up and down no problem. i bought them on ebay thru a dealer for like 169 for the whole set with a 3 yr warr. flow matched with the gm size viton o rings. came in two days. great feedback rating. all i can tell you is that they look and work perfectly. my car runs like it did when it was new.
i can even floor it now witout any spitting or popping.. don,t waste crazy money when you can get these.

 

At least for the 24# Bosch/Ford M9593-a302 injectors I just purchased and installed, this statement is potentially dangerous. While I can't speak as to the original intent of having the clips, -on the ford injectors, the clips are....if not essential.....at least a REAL good idea. With pressure pushing against them and vibrations, they will likely seat themselves all the way down into the manifold as far as possible. When they are, the Oring on the TOP is ever so slightly visible on the edge of the fuel rail. WAY WAY WAY too close for me!!!!!!!!!

In a perfect world, sure, you'll have no problems. My injectors actually seat themselves in the fuel rail. Both the Multecs and the Fords. When seated, the slot for the clips lines up PERFECTLY! I can NOT imagine this is coincidence. And even if they form a good seal when NOT seated (without clips), I can't imagine it's a good idea.

....and for the record, I had no trouble installing them the same old tried and true -rail first, manifold second method.

....and as far as how they're rated, we've found actual test PROOF showing the fords to flow at they're advertised rating at BOTH 39.15 and 43.5 PSi. (different sets of course) At the moment, this can't be explained, but there are flow tests floating around that would seem to prove this. Your information is no doubt accurate, but as we've found, it's actually innaccurate at the same time. Weird huh? Fact is at the moment, NO ONE is really sure what the deal is.

If it was an 85 TA, it didn't have a 350 when it was new.

Welcome to TGO

 

i never thought i did'nt have a 350. i always assumed it did. so i called my brother whom i got the car from in 96. This was my first car, an i love it. he put a 350 from a 87 vette in the car when he blew the original motor. i knew the car had another engine but never new it did not have a 350 when it was new.what did it have anyway? i got the car with 34,000,,,it ran great, now it runs like that again. anyway that explains why the injectors cannot use the clips. i still have the injectors that came out. they are about 1/4 inch longer than the fords. plus the design 3 have no slot for a retainer. i saw where the different injector lengh was used by chevy and pontiac. but, the new ones, fit all the way in the manifold, they can't go further in than they are. and they don't leak. i just know it runs great. so i would recomend them for anyone that does not want to use the stock injector or spend stupid money to replace them. i'm a construction worker and really a backyard mechanic... still learning, i appreciate this forum.. lots of good info

 

If for some reason you get a leak later on. The posts that the fuel rail sets on, can be cut down 1/4" to get a better seal.

I was chicken, the clips fit so I used them.

 

i have heard that some chevy's use the same length injector as the svo etc replacements that are 60mm o ring to o ring. then there is the longer 65mm. those are the ones you can't use the clips because it will hold the injector up and it won't seal in the manifold.. does anyone know about this or is primarilly vettes that have the longer injector.

 

My ford injetors are in, and they've got no leaks. Just took the car for an hour long cruise through the backroads. (Still running the stock/hypercrap tune for those following "other" threads, and no sign of running rich @ 43 psi. No datalogging though). I've got a PCMforless tune on the way.

....anyhow, like I said, no leaks, running the clips in the upper groove, and they were about 1/4" inch shorter than the Multecs. When i installed them, I could clearly feel them seat with no problems.

There seems to be quite a bit in conflicting info on these Ford/Bosch injectors, and sometimes it seams to vary from earlier to newer styles. I can't tell anyone what they should do, but at least with the 8 injectors I got, on MY car, when seated all the way down in the manifold, they were way too close to coming out of the fuel rail for my liking, so I used the clips. While they could be seated farther down in the manifold, I could feel them seat nicely in the manifold, and as mentioned, I have no leaks.

 

I am concerned about these design 3's bosch but, i see they don't go in the manifold as deep as the svo type.. there is no grove at the top for the clip.. i will just let it go

 

I found out about the injectors too. I bought a new harness ecm and injectors from Affordable fuel injection, I noticed the clips are different and the injectors are shorter. On the original tpi intake I cut 1/4 off the four posts to make the injectors seat ALL the way, NO chance of a leak or worse. I changed over to holley stealth ram, the stock injectors will NOT fit too long, fuel rail won't bolt up. I found info on the clips. My stock TPI used EV1 style and I have EV6 now, Summit racing makes adapters to make the swap with no cutting.