be proud for what you believe in as well as what you stand for.i feel that we will all be tested in the near future to preserve our way of life.prayers go out to all in manhattan(wtc)survivors andd mournors alike.

sorry to post a non-tech article on the board.
as the japanese said after pearl harbor;
I FEAR ALL WE HAVE DONE WAS TO AWAKEN A SLEEPING GIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I totally agree, my thoughts and prayers go out to everyone suffering. I also have a message for the cowardley mother f*ckers who did this; you will pay with your lives!!!

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(corrected for elevation)

 

Nuke the Bastards! Period!

 

That would be letting them off to easy, they need to suffer for a very long time.

 

all Australians just like most ofthe world sympathise with the events that have happened hope this type of inhumane act will never be repeated again

 

The problem is, it WILL happen again. This is going to be a long, drawn out war, with a lot of death on both sides. This is going to be so much different than any war we have fought in the past, there are no clearly defined enemys, there is not a clear battle ground. We are going to go looking for the proverbial needle, in the largest haystack around.

We have a fair amount of information on the terrorist groups throught the world anyway, now, we are going to act on that information. This is going to highly annoy some countries, and they will in turn escalate terrorist attacks in the continental US.

Look for the world to go thru some radical changes over the next several years, and pray for the souls that have/will die in this conflict.

My condolences to all who have lost loved ones. Their deaths will serve to unite the world in a single cause to erradicate terrorists, where ever they may be found.

 

Welcome to a holy war, we in europe have had our share of those. It seems it is islam (not a country) against us and if we are not carefull us against islam. Think before fighting!

 

Be prepared - here it comes...

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Later,
Vader
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Justice and Freedom will Prevail

 

Very good points. I'll try to explain how I agree.

Thinking before fighting is exactly what is happening. That is why there has been no obvious direct response to this open declaration of war. Plans are underway to eliminate the enemy, then eliminate the generation of new enemies from this set of beliefs.

I find it difficult to fathom that any religion that appeals to the sensibilities of people can support such actions. Obviously, we need a perpetual, concentrated effort to enlighten these people. They need to understand that they are not the entire world, and that their beliefs must fit within the global map. They cannot control the world, regardless if they believe it is their religious right. The Japanese thought this in WWII. They no longer believe that. Christians thought that in the Conquests. They no longer believe that. Societies that have tried to exercise this view in the past are now either extinct or have modified their positions to coexist. I don't doubt that their beliefs will either be enlightened or eliminated.

Before you take the position that this is an impossible task, understand that it took only 50 years of a concerted effort by the world to change the social and political climate in what was once the Soviet Union. They are now aligned with our views, even to the point of offering all manner of support for whatever response we might deem necessary.

There must be some military action, if for nothing more than to strike a punitive blow at the perpetrators and their supporters.

Beyond that, WE will become the unstoppable force that will change their views and beliefs. Their terror will only strengthen our resolve. Those who do not change will cease to exist. They will be changed through starvation, military action, political and economic sanctions, directly overt and covert infiltration of their political and religious practices, isolation, psychological warfare, and enlightenment. Divide, then conquer. Those who do not change will perish, and their beliefs will perish with them. Buddha, Allah, *** , Mother Earth, or whatever your idea of the creator of all might be, will pass final judgement on all of us.

In the interim, I hope those that decided to begin this war have seen the images, read the newspapers, are watching television. They will understand how their efforts to undermine and divide us around the world have only galvanized us in our efforts against their cause. They chose to destroy what they believed is a symbol of the United States. They may already understand that their pitiful effort has only brought us closer together. And not just in the United States, but around the world.

These people obviously planned this series of actions, and understood there would be some backlash. They are likely prepared for that as well, and planned to twist any strikes against them into their own justification for the acts. They couldn't possibly have planned that the Russian government and people would not only offer sympathy, but will probably take an active role in their elimination. They couldn't possibly have planned that China will allow whatever response we deem necessary without interference or objection. They likely didn't understand our culture enough to know how their actions would only make us stronger.

They took a small bite at a very large being, and the being is no longer ignoring the insect that bit them. We will not only smash the insects, but will destroy the hive and devise a method to eliminate them before they are even born.

Now we all need to take stock of our positions. Western nations need to stand against this. German companies need to stop supplying material to these factions. Argentina must stop supplying arms to the region. The United States must stop educating and feeding these factions. The whole of Europe, Asis, and the Americas must stop exchanging currency for oil that funds their efforts. Countries that border these areas must finally decide which side they align with.

This won't be short, quick, and easy. We should all prepare to sacrifice some of our comfort, our luxuries, and our whims so that we can not only undermine this threat, but stay on a path to eliminate it. We will steal their children away, open their minds, and release them back into the society, whether physically or figuratively. The one thing these people fear most is an enlightened population who feels free to speak their minds, thinks for themselves, and is secure to exercise their rights. If we can turn their society into an enlightened population, we will have won for all time.

I know and work with several people of the Islamic faith. The people I know are not aligned with these ideas, and condemn the acts. They are also free to speak their minds without reprisal, unlike the Islamic in the middle east.

We have a mission. You are either part of the cure for this global cancer, or part of the problem. Neutrality is not a good option. Wait and see how history finishes this chapter.

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Later,
Vader
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Justice and Freedom will Prevail

 

In the past, catch-phrases such as "measured response" and "limited collateral damage" have ruled the day when another terrorist act demanded a response. That can no longer be. To defeat an enemy, you must think like him, and sometimes you must be willing to act as desperately, or more, as the enemy. The will of the German people was broken when their cities lay in ruin. The leadership of the Japanese could no longer justify their ideology when Nagasaki and Hiroshima failed to exist.

Everyone, no matter how cold and unfeeling they claim to be, has a limit to how much suffering they can endure. The problem so far, has been that those who commit these acts of terrorism have had to endure little, if any suffering. While they kill innocent people, they justify their actions by saying those they have murdered are infidels. To many of these fanatics, killing infidels is the prime objective. And if you die killing infidels, a seat in heaven awaits. Therefore, the more infidels you kill on the way to your own death, the greater reward.

It may sound cruel and, it may sound like fighting fire with fire, but the way to bring this war to the terrorist will be achieved by killing those who share his faith. When the next innocent person to die is the terrorist's father, his mother, his older brother or his baby sister, then he will understand the cost of the war he has started.

When the cities of his homeland lie in ruin, when his mosques and holy places are reduced to rubble, then he will know the will of his enemy. When the will of family, his countrymen, his spiritual leaders and those who financed him and sheltered him is broken, he will know he is alone. When all those that he cares for have turned their back on him, he will know he cannot win.

Turning the other cheek is a noble sentiment, but the one who struck you may not understand the might and fury with which you can strike back. You must make him understand.

Limited war, is an invitation to defeat. If the United States and her true allies do not commit to the utter destruction of this enemy, then they have no business decrying the atrocities made possible by their enemy's continued existence. The enemy is willing to endure hardship and discomfort to achieve his aim, we must be doubly so committed. The enemy will use whatever means and resources are at his disposal, we must do no less. If the people and governments who involve themselves in this war do not fully understand the commitment to win, they will hurt the efforts of those who do. There can be no talk of measured responses and limiting collateral damage. Past conflicts should have taught us, that victory goes to the side that will do whatever it takes to win. You are either commited to victory, or you oppose it.

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You Can Make A Difference!
<a href="http://store.yahoo.net/redcross-wtc1/">American Red Cross</a>
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<a href="http://www.redshield.org/crisis/">Salvation Army Crisis Center</a>

[This message has been edited by 88IROCs (edited September 15, 2001).]

 

Ya can't kill the bastard because that's too easy...it's a waste of money and problems waiting to happen letting him sit in jail...so what do you do? I hate to say it, but the only thing you can do that comes close to what he did is torture him. He sure deserves it. Normally I wouldn't condone saying these things but this is a special exception. Why do we have to play by the rules why thousands of innocent people die here because they cant? We need to be on a level playing field, if that means playing down and dirty...I think already they've shown they can't play fair. I think religion is an excuse...nobody could be stupid enough thinking they're going to control the world because THEIR beliefs say so. These people don't have regard for other people's lives and therefore don't belong on this planet, millions of other people agree. They keep saying on the news how smart he is...anyone who can put 2+2 together over a period of time could plan this with help. But the point is, anyone who does these things, no matter how complicated, is a f*ucking moron. So I say, find the bastard, tie him to a pole, let lions feed off of him slowly while everyone takes a shot or two. Slowly. Over a period of like 50 years. With all his friends. F*uck 'em. Damn bastard deserves to have someone fly a plane up his *** !

Jesus, If they don't like us, fine, nobody asked him to. But don't kill innocent people for crying out loud! This has made me seriously reconsider joining the military, because it pisses me off so much...I can't cry because that weakness is what they wanted, they would be winning...so I don't...can't believe some people...I'm sure plenty agree...

 

WAR IS INEVITABLE!BUT HOW DO YOU FIGHT A WAR WITH NO BATTLEGROUND?THE UNITED STATES IS NOT WILLING TO GO AND DESTROY THESE COUNTRIES FOR ONE THERE ARE TOO MANY(PAKISTAN,AFGHANISTAN,UAE,SAUDI,KUWAIT,IRAN, IRAQ,JORDAN,PALESTINE,SYRIA AN MANY,MANY MORE).THE COUTRIES I'VE LISTED ALL HAVE A POPULATION OF ISLAMIC RADICALS.THE ONLY CONCIEVABLE WAY TO END THIS WAR IS TOO TAKE APART EACH COUNTRY AND SET UP A NEW GOVERNMENT.WE DID IT IN THE PAST(WHY NOT NOW!!!!)LATE 1800'S EARLY 1900'S THE US TTOOK WHAT THEY WANTED GUAM,HAWAII,PUERTO RICO,PHILLIPENES,MIDWAY,ETC.NOBODY SAID **** IT IS NOW TIME TO CONTINUE WITH OUR MANIFEST DESTINY.ALL COUNTRIES NOT WILLING TO CONVERT WILL BE TOPPLED ALL OTHERS WILL HAVE A STRONG ALLIED PRESENCE IN THEIR COUNTRY UNTIL DEEMED FIT BY NATO(NOT THE UN CAUSE THEY ARE A JOKE IF I WAS HEAD OF A COUNTRY I'D BE PISSED TO CONTRIBUTE TO AN ALLIANCE WHO'S STRONGEST RETALIATORY MEASURE IS CONDEMNATION).AS A VETERAN IT WOULD BE A SLAP IN THE FACE TO US ALL WHO HAVE SERVED IF THIS UNITED RESPONSE FALLS SHORT OF ANYTHING BUT EXTINCTION OF A KNOWN ENEMY AND IT'S BREEDING GROUND.I HAVE 11 MONTHS COMBAT SERVICE AND AM WILLING TO GO BACK AT ANYTIME,PREPARED TO GIVE MY LIFE SO THAT THE NEXT GENERATION HAS THE RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES ALL OF US WERE AFFORDED TILL THESE THIEVES STOLE THEM FROM US.REMEMBER THESE ACTIONS KEEP THEM FRESH IN YOUR MIND AND BE PREPARED TO ACT IN TWO WAYS;1.BE PREPARED TO GIVE YOURSELF TO THIS COMMITMENT.2.IF THIS RESPONSE IS NOT WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN ALL SHOULD PAY A VISIT OR CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN,SENATORS,ANYOE THAT'LL LISTEN AND TELL THEM IT WASN'T ENOUGH AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS GREAT COUNTRY WILL NOT SETTLE FOR SECOND BEST.THE PRICE OF FREEDOM HAS ALWAYS BEEN HIGH WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD TO PAY IN A WHILE,WHO IS WILLING TO PAY NOW?

 

Here is a link to the same sort of discussion on the Tech/General board:

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/013509.html

and incase you don't feel like reading it. Here was my reply:

I was in New York City on Tuesday. I work there. I was supposed to be down there that morning. A lot of people I knew were down there. Some of them I don't know if they are alive. I am ready to go to war. I am ready to seek revenge.

 

As stated many times, we must first identify our enemy. In this case, its not a country, its not a religion, its not a race of people. During WWII if you saw a Japanese in the war area, you shot him. If Germany was underneath you, you bombed it. During the crusades, if he was Muslim, you killed him, war was simpler.

Now we know that not all (Probably not even most) Muslims share the Anti-US (AU) sentiment. Definitely not all arabs are AU. And of course, no definite country is AU.

What I think we need to do is find the people who are voicing these AU sentiments and get rid of them. If not they will influence others, who influence others. Normally, you should be able to just let them die a natural death and hope the ones coming after are smarter than their ancestors. However, given the current developments we cant wait that long any more. Once we acheive that objective (removing the AUs) we can commence educating the young and letting them understand why we all have to get along. ("Remember Uncle Abdul?")

That is my proposed solution. It really wouldnt be that hard, l wouldnt imagine. So far these AUs are very vocal, and like to be seen. A nice sniper rifle solves that problem. Go to the radio stations and TV stations and dont let their propaganda messages play. That would be a step to limit the amount of AU heard by the average citizen.

Although Id like the idea of carpet bombing them into the first century (Oh wait, I think they're there now) if we did that, we'd then give them money to help them rebuild. Where as if we take the "take them out, one by one" they would be stuck w/ the same old cities and thus benefit none from our attacks.

Clayton