I'm in the junk yard the other day, and I notice they have this whole trailer with fuel injected engines, mostly gm six cylinders. My question: Does anyone know or have an interchange list as to which GM/Ford injectors will interchange with a tpi. Did GM ever put a #24 injector on a six cylinder that will interchange with a tpi? Post What you know!

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355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Super T-10
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102

 

Either nobody knows this one or all GM injectors interchange. Even those #42 from throttle bodies

 

Of course not all injectors interchange. Multi-port (like TPI) injectors are different than TBI injectors. TPI injectors will interchange, they just have different lb per hour ratings and are color coded. Ford SVO injectors are also interchangeable with GM injectors, however, tend to flow more than are rated because of the fuel pressure differences between GM & Ford.

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Mike Metzler (Desert86Roc)[*] Check Out:SpeedWorldMotorplex.com[*] Check Out:Chevrolet F-Body Online Part & Illustration Manual[*] My 86 IROC 305 TPI Page (406 build in progress)

ET's @ 1250 ft[*] 14.28 @ 95.461 mph (uncorrected, NOS, no headers)[*] 15.362 @ 88.238 mph (uncorrected, headers, no NOS)
<><

 

OK, let's just try yes an no. I'll pick an engine displacement, you say yes or no.

4.3L Blazer
2.8L Camaro/Firebird
3.1L "
3.8L OLDS
2.2L Cavalier/Sunfire
2.4L Cavalier/Sunfire
Late Model Sunbirds
5L Mustang
5L Thunderbird
3.8 Liter Thunderbird/Continental

If you know one will work, post it.

 

Not shure but about the T-bird, I think they would work. Mustang, if its EFI then yes.

 

You dont know it, so whats your point?

 

For the most part, if the injectors are Bosch, they will physically interchange. I think there is only a few manufacturers of injectors. Most port injection (one injector per cylinder) use a similar O-ring style injector.

Now as to which one's FLOW the same or more than a stock TPI, you will be hard pressed to find them.

THink of it this way. A 5.7 or 350 cu in engine has 8 cylinders. Each cylinder is 43.75 cu in or 0.7125 L. You would have to find a similar engine configuration to find a similar flowing injector.

So if you look at a 2.8L, that is 0.4666 L per cylinder. That is quite a bit smaller than the 350's 0.7125L/cylinder. So obviously ,the injector will not need to flow as much fuel.

If the 4.3L engine had multiport injectors (6 of them), it would be close to the V8's requirements.

Most V8's injectors will be in the 19lb/hr - 24 lb/hr range.

Unless you know the part# you are looking for, you are gambling on the flow rating. Even people who have bought 5.7L injectors have gotten stuck with the 5.0L versions. So buyer beware.

The best bet is to look at the Ford SVO injectors. They are priced well, and there are many people using them.

Mark.

 

Oh yes ... I am referrring to NA engines. Most turbo or supercharged engines will flow more air per cylinder and thus require larger injectors.

IE. GN 3.8L turbo, Ford's 2.4 4 cyl intercooled turbo, etc.

Mark.

 

I just picked up a set of gn injectors for my iroc......28 lbs.

I don't think any NA V6 will need any injector on par with a V8's needs.

 

On the contrary I think that GM may have put #24'ers in the 3.1. Just because the overall displacement is less, that doesn't mean the fuel requirements per cylinder are less. A 4.3L , for example, is a 5.7 with two cylinders chopped off. Therefore, individual cylinder displacement remains the same, as do, assuming 100% VE, fuel requirements. Madmax, did your kitten die? You are one angry little girl today.

 

I am going to ask you one time and one time only to can the attitude from now on. It isnt necessary, and obviously you dont like it being dished back.

 

What does your car run?

 

Well I have a completely stock 91 engine in my 86, dunno what it runs I havent had it to the track since the engine change but I'd imagine mid 15's@87 would be what it would get. I have no intentions of spending a single dime to make it faster anytime soon seeing as how I havent even driven it in 5 months.

I also have a brand F car that is much faster than that.

Theres a car I have been working on for a while now that ran a 14.2@98 with a 2.4 60' time in 102 degree weather that has a whole bunch more in it, some of which was released when I siamesed the base. It should run low 13's or better if I am ever allowed to finish it like its supposed to be. As it sits right now its about equal with the new LS1 cars.

As for your injector question, I'd suggest getting your hands on a spec sheet from Bosch, or maybe even Tomco if they have one, and that along with a buyers guide or catalog will let you find out stuff that will work not only from GM but outside of GM as well... like Ford stuff for example.

[This message has been edited by madmax (edited October 09, 2001).]

 

What do madmax's times have to do with your injector selection?

Try the Mustang and T-Bird injectors, those should fit, but I don't think they are 24#, probably more like 19# at 39psi or so.

------------------
1990 IROC 350
Mods: Too busy trying to make it run right to mod it.
Airfoil, Dynomax cat-back, MSD coil, 180 t-stat, Bald Eagle tires,
Hypertech fan switch, Accel 23# injectors, Holley module, ported plenum,
Ported Daytona Yellow stock base, Moroso valve covers, other stuff,
Streetdampr, Ruger P95DC, hot wife, new oil filter, !cats, !TBC, !AIR.
18.0 @ 85MPH since I'm one big-a$$ MF
"It's better to have and not need than to need and not have."

 

The 5.0 T-bird and most 5.0 Mustang injectors are 19#@37psi, the 93 Cobra and the early 5.7 Lightnings have 24#@37psi injectors. The 4.6 engines have an entirely different injector that wont work in a TPI but IIRC they are 24# injectors.

 

Max, I flowed a set of rustang 302 HO injectors, they are 19lb/hr at 43.5 psi. I agree that ford runs the fuel at 36-37psi.

I think there might be some confusion (perhaps on my part) with how ford rates them.

For ratings to be ratings, they have to be compared at a standard flow.

Mark.

 

To a point you are correct, but also wrong. Given an RPM range, the fuel requirements of a larger displacment engine (cu in per cylinder), will be larger. A 5.7L engine at 5000 RPM will require "X" fuel. A 3.1 at 5000 RPM will require "Y". "Y" WILL be less than "X".

Ok, there are some considerations such as air flow of the engine, but it safe to say, an engine that is almost 50% the displacment of another, will use about 50% less fuel given the same RPM range.

But if you find 24's in a 3.1, you found gold and can start selling them.

For reference, here is a list of injectors I have come accross:

http://www.epsb.net/~mstrembi/injectors.htm

Mark.

 

Interesting, I used to work at Ford and thats what they said they were...

 

Mark, what you said is correct but what TPI said is correct as well, you're just looking at it differently.

A 4.3L engine with the same bore and stroke as the 5.7L engine and producing the same power per cylinder will have the same injector size on each cylinder while producing less overall horsepower and consuming less total fuel. So what TPI said has validity, he's just looking at it on a microscopic level and you're looking to the macroscopic level or net effect in total fuel consumption. You're also looking at engines with a different bore or stroke (3.1), and there's alot more to consider in determining fuel consumption besides displacement. Some turbocharged 4-cylinders have bigger injectors than a standard 350 V-8, although they may still make less or more power and consume less or more fuel.

With that being said, fuel requirements per cylinder will depend on the displacement of each cylinder, N/A or forced induction, camshaft, heads, exhaust, and everything else in addition to the piston and the bore that makes up an engine. So it's quite possible that injectors from many engines of many different displacements will work.



[This message has been edited by JETHROIROC (edited October 09, 2001).]

 

Fuel requirements are only have to do with bsfc and hp produced. If a cylinder is really small but makes a ton of hp than it will need the same sized injector as an engine with a huge piston producing equal hp and equal bsfc.

so a 3.4 making (93-95 camaro) 160 hp equates to 47hp liter

a 5.7 making 240 hp (typical tpi) equates to 42 hp liter.


Am I correct?
I would bet that the injectors sizes are roughly the same.

------------------
1991 Firebird
350 L98 (was a 305 TBI),T-5,Edelbrock TES and cat back,Accel manifold
NOS,subframes,jegster torque arm,MSD Digital 6
AFPR,Lakewood lcas
Hurst linelock,SLP cam (206 212 .480 .486),relocated battery,cold air,Hypertech chip,centerforce df,clutch
poly bushings and mounts
AFR 190s
Harland sharp 1.5 rockers
autopower rollbar

12.33 @ 114.83 juiced uncorrected

13.510 @ 102 non juiced uncorrected

 

Yes, yes you are correct.

 

It would be even better if I had referenced hp/cylinder. But you get my point.

 

I'm pretty sure the 2.8L MPFI's are 16#, since some of the guys on the V6 board are upgrading to 19# injectors. I'm not sure about the 3.1 and 3.4L... those must be different.

<< AlexJH wanders over to the V6 board >>

Oh yeah, why not send an email to Rich at Cruzin Performance. I bet he can tell you for sure.


[This message has been edited by AlexJH (edited October 09, 2001).]

 

Nope. Using your same formula, then explain why the SD 305's making 235 HP (47HP Liter) only have 19# injectors?

A rule of thumb is 2HP for each # of injector flow. L98s have 22# injectors. The rule of thumb suggests that L98s 22# injectors can support 22 x 2 x 8 (# of injectors) or just over 350 HP @ 80% duty cycle.

To support 160 HP (your 3.4 Liter V6), the MINIMUM injector is 160 / (6*2) or just over 13.3# injectors. An L98 (240HP) could get away with 240 / (8*2) or 15# injectors (Minimum).

GM choses injectors based on cost and the PSI they run them. GM often choses to use injectors that are just over the minimum on their "base motors" as these tend to be the most commonly sold units.

The real "key" is the duty cycle. At 6,000 rpm, you have 10 ms to squirt the fuel in the cylinder every revolution. At 80% duty cycle, this only leaves 8 ms. An stock L98 can't rev to 6,000 rpm (and make useable power), but an LT1 can. This is why the LT1s have larger injectors, 24#s as they don't make that much more HP than an L98 and 22#s would be sufficient based on the rule of thumb. But, when you consider the RPMs, an LT1 comes dangerously close to exceeding 80% duty cycle @ 6,000 rpm, where an LT1 makes useable power.

 

TPI Guy, consider this your warning on this board. You're coming off with a strange ****y attitude that we don't need around here. Sometimes it takes a little while for the right people to see your post and respond (also w/a question like this, it takes time for us to look up the data if we have it.)
Relax and play nice, we're all here to learn and help each other out.

------------------
Ed Maher - Moderator @ The TPI & Carb Boards
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
305 TPI A4 2.73 - 14.8 @ 93.1
Stock except ported plenum and dual cats
-=ICON Motorsports=-

- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die

 

For what exactly am I being warned? What I don't appreciate are posts like this:

From madmax:

"You dont know it, so whats your point?"
or on the suspension board:
"See the search button? Click it. The information is there."

Please follow:
https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/004759.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002930.html

I don't know what criteria you have for selecting moderators, but I doubt cynicism and sarcasm are high on anyoneone's list.

 

Im simply asking you to be nice from now on. I purposely made those remarks to you to see your reaction, and got the reaction I expected. For those 2 remarks of mine, I can find twice as many of yours and as far as I know you werent doing it to test someones demeanor. If you'd like me to post quotes of yours I will, its not a problem.

 

Calm down TPI dude. First off, it doesn't matter what you appreciate. Perhaps your attitude and demeanor are brushing people the wrong way a little, and perhaps we just want to give you a friendly nudge to fall in line a little better.
For one thing, there is no reason to get bent out of shape on being asked to search. For the most part, if you see an old timer here pointing out to search, it's prolly b/c we know that your topic has been covered and are trying to save YOU time. In fact, practically anything you can think of has been covered before, but you are right, it does take a little time and luck to find it sometimes. It is still in your best interest to do a search, as it can help you shape your question/thought process and narrow your scope. For another thing, you seem very BTT happy (as in all your posts you BTT.) That can get a little annoying when you have a bunch of beat like a dead horse topics constantly floating to the top.
It's probably just a newbie thing, lots of folks start out rocky as they adjust to the style/tone of these boards.

so let's all play nice

 

Please do so. I will even help you out.

#1. You will find my best response under 88IROCs in the post RPM ranges for tpi manifolds immeditely below the point where he called me out. I believe I issued a heart felt "boo-yah" to him after succussfully defending my post.

#2. You will finded a veiled reference to the female reproductive cycle under the topic Spring Rates in the suspension board.

#3. Above I made a reference to a certain moderator as "an angry little girl."

I think that covers it. I'm sorry for taking up space on the board but I'm tired of my posts being hunted down and molested. All I wanted to know was a little info about injector interchange.

------------------
355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Super T-10
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102

 

Ill send you an email, theres enough wasted space here.

 

Just an observation here, but when I've done searches, the most recent posts that come up are from 1998. There are far more members here now than there was then, I know b/c I was around here in 1998. That means that there are far more people to learn from when posting a new post, and there seems to be a lot more cars here now that are faster than in 1998. Yeah, we can let newbies do a search, but I also think the archives need updated.

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89 IROC-SuperRammed 355 w/ AFR 190's and LPE 219/219 cam-http://www.geocities.com/buckeyeroc

 

Are you going through the archive section from the front page?
If you click the search button at the top of any one of the UBB pages, it will search posts for about the last year-year and a half. I think some of the posts are MIA.

 

I have been following this post for a while. I believe madmax to be at fault. The "moderator" should be setting the example yet he was the first to lash out. I guess I should have interpreted his name more literally; "mad max".

Anyhow, I am curious about this injector topic.

 

I have been following this post for a while. I believe madmax to be at fault. The "moderator" should be setting the example yet he was the first to lash out. I guess I should have interpreted his name more literally; "mad max".

Anyhow, I am curious about this injector topic.

 

Lead by example? Tried that too many times before, didnt work. Its my personality and isnt changing anytime soon... dish it back and see how they feel about it works better for me.

 

As moderators it is not our job to be PR reps as well. We are real people w/ real ties and longevity w/ this site. Obviously we are not here to drive people away, but at the same time, our hands are not tied in so much as to let us not be ourselves.
Let's drop all of this and play nice. Anyone with an interest in re-posting this topic may do so, but it appears that for now, nooone that has seen it has the info you are looking for.