I was looking in the new magazine of TPIS. I saw that they had the Mini Ram for 895.00. At first I thought it was rally expensive for that. But then I looked at the Big mouth intae ported plenum and Large tube runners. After adding that up it was 985.00. My question is what do you guys think?

 

Here is all sorts of useful info
https://www.thirdgen.org/cgi-bin/mes...=20&LastLogin=

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*1989 RS
*Red, Daytona Turbo fiberglass hood, chrome 16x8 IROC wheels
*355 CID
*TPI ported plenum, SLP siamesed runners, Edelbrock high flow intake
*SLP 1 and 3/4 headers with 3 inch catback
*Richmond 3.73, Auburn Posi
*Modded 700-R4, 2800 stall converter
*eibach pro kit and hotchkis sturt tower brace

 

if you look again in the catalog you will notice that with the mini-ram you will also have to have to fuel line kit -$355, and TPIS chip- $575. When you buy runners and intake you can take it one step at a time if you want, and you don't absolutely have to get a custom chip. You can port your plenum on your own.

 

Says who? You dont need nor want their chip, especially when burning your own yields so much better results. You would really need a chip anyways with the bigger base and larger runners.

 

GRRRRRRRRrrrrr!!! I hate it when I hear people saying that you need a TPIS chip to run the MiniRam. That's bullchit! Yes, you'll need a custom chip (mainly to delete EGR for both MAF and SD, and to use 'non-cold start injector' code on the '86-'89s). BUT - in any case you don't want to buy the chip from TPIS. When it comes down to it you will need a custom chip for any serious application so just learn to program your own chips!

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

Traxion, dont get mad at people man... Some, actually most arent inclined enough to burn their own chips... Others just simply dont have the time to learn or go through the process of trial/error such as myself.

 

Hotz, how could you seriously consider spending that much money for either, knowing that it won't make your car any faster no matter which you choose?
That seems like way too much money just to change the looks of your induction.
The overall cost and lack of performance is forcing me to give up on all those ideas before I blow the money. I don't want to make TPIS richer, so I can't hang with you there. I want something that's really fast but affordable (reasonable).

 

I think Traxxion is trying to say just stay away from TPIS chips.. A lot of people have had issues with them.

 

Are you trying to say buying a miniram will only change the looks-no better performance?? I think I am misunderstanding your post??

 

kevin G
since you are a moderator maybe you can answer this. i've seen the hp claims from tpis and dyno tests and all, but every car i've seen run that just bolted the intakes on didn't get any faster until they went and changed a whole bunch of expensive things that would have made them faster anyway without the intake. I started adding it all up and it's a huge amount of money and not really all that fast for all the money and work.

so if you got a bone stock 305 or 350 tpi car with automatic & 2.73 or 3.23 gear and you just slap on the miniram or the base +large runners, how much faster does your car run exactly?
Has anyone here done this and have E.T. numbers to show? or did it take a bunch of other mods to even make them do anything?

another thing even if the large tube setup gained a couple tenths that's really nothing for almost $1000

if those intakes really worked then maybe i would try them but i want more than a couple tenths and don't have that much money to throw around. Is why i think i gotta swap to carb to go fast.
i see carb guys go fast all the time but i never see someone put on one of those tpi intakes and gain anything. Like i said not without changing a bunch of things from stock. Anybody done this?
thanks


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1986 Iroc 305 small block chevy getting modded now for speed

 

Tim, we could go further and say "Even a STOCK engine will benefit from reprogramming the eprom". I have been getting excellent results in modifying my eprom for my basically stock L98. My fuel economy is MUCH better, my car runs smoother and has better driveability and my car performs much better too.

In fact, I think the best time to start learning to program your own eproms is when your engine is still fairly stock. You can make a mistake and not completely disable your car. Yet, virtually every table can benefit with a little "tweaking" to better suit your driving style and condition of your motor.

For the $575 for an eprom, it will pay for EVERYTHING you need to burn your own eprom and have some cash left over in your pocket.

PS: A buddy with a 383 Miniram on a MAF car initially bought a Formato eprom to get his car running. When I compared his Formato eprom to a stock ARAP BIN (best MAF Bin available), there were only 77 bytes with changes. Primarily in the spark tables, higher idle speed and for the injector constant (which they did wrong). But only 77 differences...we have over 250 differences now (with many more to follow) from the stock ARAP BIN and it runs much better than the Formato eprom.

If you have a MAF car, the ARAP BIN is an excellent starting point for a Miniram car. For SD, you'll need to tweak the VE Tables, but as all of us SD owners know, this is NOT a big deal. The biggest gains will be found in tuning your spark tables. And NO custom eprom writer can get it exact for you without MANY re-burns (which most won't do for free). To get the Spark Tables right requires a LOT of "hands on testing" - whether you do it yourself or send the data to a custom eprom writer for additional modifications. Do it yourself, it's quicker than waiting for the custom eprom writer to send you a new eprom.

[This message has been edited by Glenn91L98GTA (edited November 04, 2001).]

 

305sbc,

It's all about matching engine components and knowing what you intend to do with the car before you start throwing parts at it.

You cannot throw a Miniram on a stock L98 and expect miraculous gains from the intake alone...you might even lose performance. If you do this then of course it would seem like a waste of money. The cam and heads and gearing must be matched to perform in the intended rpm range of the Miniram. Again you have to attack the engine as a complete package...the intake is just a part of that package. Then you still have to tune it.

Unfortunately with EFI, speed really DOES cost money.

As for the chip, $575 for ANY "custom" chip is simply ridiculous.


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1989 IROC-Z, ZZ3 shortblock with some bolt-ons.
13.20 @ 108.69, 2.2 60'

 

For a stock engine, yah I would say getting the larger intake manifold and larger runners or siamesed runners is better than the Miniram. But if you're building a monster engine, the MiniRam is your best choice. However if you live in a smog state, the SuperRam (gag!) is your only choice. Or if you're mechanically inclined you can siamese your runners. I'm going that route.


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1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
317 RWHP, 418 RWTQ
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH (2.10 60')
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Member: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

Granted the entire intake set up will be cheaper the carb route - but you are not going to go really fast with just a carb/intake - you still need heads and cam, as with the tpi, to really run.

 

just put a carb intake converted to EFI on. you will then have limitless choices in intakes, but still have all the benefits of EFI, plus its cheaper then Mini/Super/large tube setups.

 

Ok what I intend do do is make my camaro very very fast, but keeping the 305 in there.
I know there are other parts you can put on that will give big gains in speed without doing anything else. I know if I spent over $1000 then I'd expect something close to miraculous. It sounds like it's agreed those intakes will not do that. If you cannot just put it on and go faster then I think it is in fact a big waste of money. It is especially a big waste if it forces you to spend even more large sums of money on other stuff just to get any gains from it. Well that's just how I see it.

I've been reading a lot of posts on here about tpi and all the mods and parts and this information helps me realize that tpi is the last thing I want to build.
I don't want to open up a huge money pit on something just because of its looks. I got a carb intake for $25 and can probably get a carb for $50 maybe less.
Once i rip the tpi stuff off i guess i should get off this board so i won't sound so critical.
thanks for the information


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1986 Iroc 305 small block chevy getting modded now for speed

 

Ok yes I see that $25 carb intake is much cheaper, but you say I'm still not going to be fast with it? why do you think a carb and intake will not work for me and be no faster than an equal tpi engine?
I am going to port my 305 heads and try to find an lt1 cam.



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1986 Iroc 305 small block chevy getting modded now for speed

 

no thank you, i'm trying to get rid of the "benefits" of EFI. Sounds like you suggest a TBI system. Isn't that wet-flow and even slower than the tpi ? EFI and computers are expensive and that's what I'm trying get away from. I probably shouldn't have commented over on this board. I was just trying to figure what people saw in those intakes to spend so much money on.



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1986 Iroc 305 small block chevy getting modded now for speed

 

How hard would it be to make your fuel rail for it instead of spending 300 bucks for one?

 

I just put my stock chip in in place of the TPIS custom that I bought when I got my Miniram and my car runs much smoother and faster with a lower idle,screw their chips when I install my cam and heads I'm going to learn to burn

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89 FORMULA 350,WS6 SUSPENSION,HOTCHKIS STB,KONI REDS,WONDERBAR,SLP REAR CONTROL ARMS/PANHARD,POLY BUSHINGS,FRESH 355 MOTOR,TCI 12" STREETFIGHTER,TRANSGO SHIFT KIT,3.70 GEARS,FLOWMASTER EXHAUAST,SLP 1 3/4 HEADERS,NO CATS,58 MM BBK,MINIRAM INTAKE,COLD AIR,ALL FREE MODS

 

305sbc,
You say you want to go VERY fast. You plan on doing that w/ a 305 carb motor? What kind of intake did you get for $25. You think this wonderful $25 intake and a $50 carb is going to make your 5.0 motor fast. Let me know times you run now and then let me know what you run after the $75 mods.

 

And thats fine, if you don't have the time to invest in learning to burn your own chips, you simply will NEVER have a fast EFI car. PERIOD. Likewise, if you simply swap to a carb and don't bother to learn how to tune it you will NEVER have a truly fast car. PERIOD. Any fast combination will require MANY hours of tuning and playing with. If you don't have the time, that sucks for you, but it doesnt change the fact that TPIS chips leave the OVERWHELMING majority of buyers VERY dissappointed.
The one exception is if you are loaded. Then you can swap to a nice speed pro (or similar) and have it do all the work for you. If you're not looking to go VERY fast though this is a big waste of money. Similarly, you could drop your car off at lignefleter, etc and hand them your kid's college maoney and you'll get a fast car that way too. Both of these are unrealistic for most people.

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Ed Maher - Moderator @ The TPI & Carb Boards
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
305 TPI A4 2.73 - 14.7 @ 93.6
Stock except ported plenum and dual cats
-=ICON Motorsports=-

- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die

 

Well, you're hitting the nail on the head by beating the whole damned board here, lol. Exactly. Just swapping the intake on ANY engine is not going to make a huge gain, even on a carbed car (in fact especially so on many carbed cars, the factory intakes are more than effective for 300ish HP)
In order to go truly fast you will end up changing a lot of parts of the combo in anything. You think you can run 12s in a carbed car by swapping intakes alone. No, it still takes the right heads and cam. It still takes suspension and tires. It still takes various levels of tranny prep.
Yes, no doubt, EFI is more expensive to go fast with. But at the same time, you can make an animal of an EFI car that idles and drives smooth as a ***** cat, still passes emmisions and blows the doors off any hilljacks saturday night special 72 chevelle w/ junkyard 350, 280 magnum and camel hump heads.
As far as the tuning aspect, i know i addressed this in my previous post, but i'll touch it again. Learning to tune anything requires time and patience. And yes, to many, playing with the PROM seems like a very daunting task. If you open your mind up and just try it, IMO PROM tuning is as simple as it gets (for SD anyway) Unlike carbs, which are a miracle of engineering and design that they do work so well, SD EFI is as simple as ECM wants more fuel here, i give it more fuel here. ECM wants less fuel here, i gove it less fuel here. With a carb you have to deal with jets, boosters, discharge tubes, etc you have to set the timing curve completely manually and mechanically, etc. And all of your carb tuning is a wash depending on how the weather is that day. Once you get passed the spookiness of opening your ECM, it is much simpler than a carb is. In fact, i'll be so bold as to say this, if you think a carb is easy and simple, you are either as green as they come or way too advanced to be taking advice from random goons on the web anyway.

 

Yes with the 305 and carburetor. The intake is an RPM. Yes I think they will make the car much faster and save me a bunch of money in the process. I think I can unload most of my tpi for $250 to a local guy that buys them up. With that money I will buy roller lifters so I can run a better cam.

The car ran high 15's around 85 last time at track.

It's not just $75 in mods. I'm changing cams and porting the stock heads. I'm also replacing the ignition with something I can program and control.

sure I will let you know what happens.



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1986 Iroc 305 small block chevy getting modded now for speed

 

A friend of mine has the mini-ram and I would NEVER use one!! There is no place to mount the MAP sensor (we have speed density cars). Next, his ACCEL Throttle body was a PAIN in the **** to mount (throttle cable bracket doesnt line up worth a damn)and he had to shave the water neck slighty, cause the ACCEL TB is to big to fit in there. The fuel line feeds have to be modified. All that trouble for a loss in TORQUE!! No thank you!

 

Well geez, Im interested in the TPI setup, ECM, and sensors if youre going to dump it for 250

 

from someone who is there and doing that, this is the most ignorant responce I have read here so far.

Loss of torque? No. I dont think so. More like shifting it in the curve. To a more useable area. IE: Top end.

Apparently, your friend isnt taking advantage of his mini ram's potential. And what about the MAP sensor? That doesnt matter. Mine is bolted to the underside of the cowl, and a vacuum line ran out to it. No big deal. You could leave it hanging under the intake even and it would work.

------------------
-86 IROC

-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

305sbc, I have a stock used LT1 cam for cheap if you are interested. E-mail me.

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1996 Trans Am WS6, GTP Stage I heads, Comp 210/220 .500/.510 114LS cam, FLP headers, flowtech cutout, Comp 1.6 Pro Mag rockers, BMR LCAs, Lakewood PHR, Dynomax Ultraflow muffler, LT1 Edit for OBD2, LT4 KM

3rd gens formerly owned:
Red '88 IROC-Z LB9 5.0 TPI (can be seen in Featured Rides)
Red '85 Camaro LG4, converted to 355

 

To Guido - ok so I'm ranting and raving a little bit. And yes, I DO know the "potential" of a mini-ram. However, IN MY OPINION and others as well, "Fit and Finish" on the TPIS mini-ram could use ALOT of improvement. I feel I could do just as well as "some" of you mini-ram guys with my TPI setup and beat a few people I know with built mini-ram motors. Before too long, I'll have the time slips to prove it!

 

Im personally very satisfied with the fit and finish. Granted there was some grinding and fitting but that doesnt bother me in the least.

There is nothing like changing injectors in 10 minutes. Or taking the whole intake off in 20 minutes.

I love the way it performs, looks, etc. The only thing Id do different is a carb intake conversion with an elbow and mustang throttle body.

 

It just seems funny to me that a few people that frequent this board think that the traditional styled TPI systems will not run as well as a mini-ram motor. That is why I'll make some decent money on the street and the track, when I pop my hood and people see a standard style TPI setup!

 

Yeah, u could also keep the TPI and do this: https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002191.html

 

1bad91Z,
iTS Not that I dont want to keep the Tpi setup. Its just that when I saw those nubers. It just made me think a little.

 

the local guy only wants the hard parts base, plenum, TB,
another guy wants to trade me something for the injectors and distributor
but the ECM and harness are up for grabs.

I just started ripping the tpi stuff off!! it's FUN!
and what a mess of crap..




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1986 Iroc 305 small block chevy getting modded now for speed

 

Yeah, I agree with 1b91Z. I will want to do something like that too. What engine and mods do u have??

I don't know why some of u want more high RPM HP more than lower RPM Torque. Thats good if you are like always going to be at the track and like revving, but on the street where u always really are....

I mean, a TTA makes 250HP@4,000RPM and 340TQ@2,800RPM, and I never hear ANY1 complain about them and how they don't rev. It makes it numbers with less RPM than TPI. U can mod a 5.7 TPI and get the same or better results and rev some more than that.



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited November 08, 2001).]