Saturday night:


Tuesday afternoon:


Good thing i have two camaros

anyways, I dropped the 305 at the machine shop to get tanked and magnafluxed, and I am looking to freshen her up and maybe bump up the power a little. I know every other thread about making performance with a 305 gets told that they are silly, but I am going to take it one step further... I would like to get more performance with the 305, using the stock heads and intake. I am looking for suggestions on how to grab a little more performance out of this beast. Roller cam? bump up the compression by decking the heads? port and polish the heads and intake? N angle valve jobs? High ratio rockers? hyperuetectic pistions? balance all the rotating parts to retarded tolerances? all of the above? any suggestions for cams and cam grinds?


Thanks guys, and if if the "just drop in a 350 you can't make power with a 305" crowd could just let me be that would be cool too because I won't.

 

Ok, here is where i am at. The block is done, I had to get a new crank because mine was thrashed. Instead of going with an aftermarket cast crank, i just had the machine shop rebalance a 350 crank. I went and had a sit down with the shop that will be tuning the motor, and I will be bumping up the compression to 10.2:1 with a combination of milling the heads and the new pistons. (chambers cc'd out to 57.5cc) Heads are being gone through with a 3 angle valve job, with the stock 1.84" and 1.5" valves, opening the bowls and ports. I will be getting a crane or comp cam with 114 duration, .460 lift, upgrading to 24# injectors, l98 intake runners and exhaust manifolds, flowmaster exhaust, and k&n air filters. finally, 4.11 gears in the rear end. The car will then be dyno tuned with a custom fuel map, and is expected to get around 250 HP at the wheels with this setup.

anyone see any faults or anywhere this could be improved?

 

wouldnt it be more cost effective if you just bought a set of l98 vette heads or a set of aftermarket ones? there is a set that is about 900 new...they are made by world..something i forget right now. I know you wanted to use stock parts but if you upgraded the tpi base and runners that would help a lot as well.

But i feel you for wanting more power out of your 305. im currently in the same boat. Im using a stock bottom end with 113 vette heads, headers, full exhaust, tpi + custom tune, new injectors, lunati voodoo cam. Im not sure on the HP rating but it should move pretty good for a 305. I would have used my 350 but this motor i got for $400 and it has less than 1k on the rebuild.

Good luck with the build up, keep us posted!

 

I think that L98 Intake Runners are the same as your Stock LB9 Runners... The L98 Exhaust Manifolds are the "good" ones though. I'd look into getting a better than Stock "Y-Pipe" and 3" CAT. The 1.84 Intake Valves could have been replaced with 1.94 Valves. Make sure that you use better than stock Valve Springs, and you may want to set a "Rev Limit" at about 5800 in the PROM. Those 4.11's are going to make you spin up high. A 4.11 gear set is going to suck on the Freeway, but be fun in town.

Should be a pretty sweet engine!

 

Not necessarily... i know these heads flow like crap, but it is also a just a 305. right now I will have about $350 in machine work in the heads, including opening up the ports and bowls, 3 angle valve job, and replacing the valve guides and whatnot. I suppose I could get a set of l98 heads, but they would still have to have the same work done to them, and my valves were still good, so it could even cost more. also, I understand my retardation, but i would like to keep the correct casting number heads on the car. as far as the world products heads, they don't flow that much better imho to justify the extra cost, and again trying to keep the stock engine parts. kind of the same deal with the aftermarket tpi base and runners. if a guy was going to invest in aftermarket heads and intake for the motor, he should really drop in at least a 350, and that is just not the direction i am going with this project.

Yeah, I really want to keep the 305, for several important reasons. The first, just to keep cost down. If I start with a 350, the build can easily spiral out of control. I would not have diffuculty spending $10,000 building a 350. but there is only so much you can spend on the 305 before you are literally just throwing money away. also, I do not need insane horsepower. honestly, I am pretty happy with the stock power of these cars. Having a 1000cc crotch rocket really takes a lot of the excitement out of driving "fast" cars. my bike that I paid $5,000 for will destroy any car in a straight line or otherwise that doesn't have at least $40K in it. I got the camaro for $100, it has a nice interior and body, but the motor was trashed. So I am rebuilding the motor, just trying to grab what I can for HP while i'm in there. Finally, and the most important reason, is that I work in a shop that restores muscle cars, and all day long i see cars that back in the day people thought would be a good idea to yank the original motor and throw something else in, which significantly destroyed the value of the cars. Everyone can (and has, it seems like) hack up a thirdgen and make it faster, but no one keeps them unmolested. except me. I am actually having second thoughts about even switching to the l98 exhaust manifolds. Will the power gains be worth the trouble some poor bastard has finding a correct set of manifolds for the car 20 years from now? Hard to say.

Thanks for the feedback, it's always nice to have someone to bounce ideas off of.

 

Thanks for the tip on the runners, my tuner wasn't sure on the runners, but told me that since I refused to throw headers on that i should at least get the l98 manifolds, and he thought the runners were bigger too. The car that it's going in already has a flowmaster (or equivalent) cat back exhaust. I'm not 100% on it, but I think that i need a different y-pipe for the l98 manifolds anyways don't I? can anyone confirm/deny this? From ebay pics i've seen it looks like the l98 manifolds dump in the center, while the stock ones dump at the rear. as far as the cat, I am in nebraska, so you just unceremoniously lop of the cat and run straight pipe. the engine is being built with the assumption that there will be a decent exhaust on the car, but I really have too much on my plate right now with the engine build to properly research it and make a decision. ok, on to the heads... It was a general consensus between me, the machine shop, and the tuner that the cost/benefit ratio of installing oversized valves in heads that flow so crappy would not be justifiable. I don't think the valve sizes are necessarily the weak point of these heads. There would definately be some gain by installing the bigger valves, but it would be negligible. As far as the ecm map, the car is getting a reprogrammible chip, and $400 worth of dyno tuning. I would like to jump up to a standalone, but again the cost is just not justifiable in the build. I am prettymuch hands off when it comes to what he puts in the mapping, because with the 10:1+ compression ratio it really depends if it can get enough fuel to not lean out at that high rpm. also, as far as fuel economy with the 4.11's, screw it. if i wanted fuel economy i would drive a cavalier.

it is guestimated by the machine shop and tuner that i should be putting down ballpark 250HP at the rear wheels on a mustang dyno, so that should be a pretty good time I would think. As the project gets nearer to completion, I will definately post the dyno results, custom fuel map, and all my reciepts in case anyone wants to reproduce my results.

 

If you are gonna go that route, try 1.94 valves, and a 52 mm throttle body. I'd go w3:73 gear, 250 @ the rear wheels may not pull that 4:11 real well? The rule of thumb I've always been told is 300rwhp is needed to make the best use of that low of a gear. I would be interested to hear some other opinions...

 

Its not the amount of power you have that makes any gear ratio better than another, but where the rpm range of the engine is. Personally I would use a 3.73 gear as TPI dosent flow much (if at all) past 5500rpm and a 4.11 gear will have you around 6000rpm at the end of the qaurter. A pocket port and 3-angle valve job are about the two best things that can be done with stock heads so kudos there! Yes you will need the larger 3" y-pipe to use the L98 exhaust manifolds as the collector is larger on these manifolds (roughly 1/4" i think). Maybe look into getting that lower intake manifold ported, opening up the cross sections will allow that 305 to breath deeper. Also you talked about possibly swapping a cam, I have heard 305 guys have good results using a LT1 roller which could be had for cheap. Good luck!

 

I think for what you are trying to do it is great at least since your in there your upping the power as much as you can without truly throwing away your money with that 305 it should be a fun car... However there is no possible way that you wll be anywhere near 250rwhp sorry but its the truth those heads and manifolds literally are not capable of making that kind of power

 

engine build is coming along nicely, just got the cam kit in at the machine shop. hopefully shouldn't be more than another 5-6 weeks before its done, and ready to be thrown back in the car.

 

looks like my estimate was pretty close. picked up the engine from the machine shop last week. i will post pics and receipts tomorrow when i bring it home from my shop.

 

There goes $2800...

 

there should be a law that the only 3rd gen topless have to be red. that is very nice

 

slowly but surely coming along. i also bought my 4.10 gear set, and 24lb ford racing injectors. still have tons of cleaning to do. that lower intake is a bitch to get clean, if anyone has any ideas let me know, i have just been using a parts washer and wire brush, but it's taking forever.

here is the engine so far:

 

here is the progress i've made on cleaning the intake.

before:

after:

 

hows this build going i would like to do something similar

 

its coming along, i have been cleaning like hell. i found that eagle one etching mag wheel cleaner is the best thing to clean the aluminum, but it still takes a ton of scrubbing.

just for the record, I am approaching $5000 on this build. if you look at the dates it's been spread out pretty far, but unless you are a purist like me, just buy a crate motor.


however, the $5000 does include everything i've spent money on.. the engine rebuild was $2800, $400 for assembly, about $300 for 4.10 gears and setup kit, $50 for craigslist for racing 24LB injectors, another $100 to have them flow tested and all caps and o-rings replaced, $250 for harmonic damper and new head bolts, at least $50 in paint, it will be $600 once it's in to have it chipped with a custom dyno tune, plust i still need all kinds of stupid odds and ends like new exhaust manifold studs ($8 each x 6) transmission fluid and filter, gear oil, paying to have the rear end set up right, engine oil, coolant, etc. etc.

I suppose if you started with an engine that wasn't grenaded already it would be a little bit cheaper. I'll let you know when i'm done if it was worth it or not...

 

lol, wrong...

 

slight fender bender in the right front corner, needed paint anyways.

 

Mostly done with soda blasting and stripping rust and bad paint.

 

Got all the problem areas coated in POR15 yesterday, today i'm working on getting the POR15 scuffed up to spray primer.

 

New hood showed up today as well.

 

Ummmm, did I miss 7 years or something? What was the outcome of the engine build?

 

lol, right?

engine build came out pretty good, she runs hard but I do not recommend going my route. spent way too much money instead of just throwing a crate motor in it. a couple winters ago i was just trying to move it inside as snow was starting and slid it into my building. now it's time to make it look pretty too.

 

I like how you jumped back in like it wasn't 7 years later lol

 

Did you ever put the thing on the dyno?

 

we'll find out in another 7 years

 

HA! I thought the SAME thing....that's awesome.

...but seriously, thanks for keeping the post alive and coming back to update!

 

gotta be more patient :/