I am about to purchase some new injectors from southbay. 88 LB9 GTA. I have headers and full exhaust adding a cam Summitt SUM-8800, (thank you Airwolfe) Ported Plenum, AFPR, and Ported Intake Manifold. It seems the consensus from reading older threads that the Delphi's are the way to go. Do you guys agree? Also, should I stick with the 19lb 305 or go ahead and get the 22lb 350? Assuming You all suggest the 22lb, Would I need a tune? Thank you so much in advance. You guys amaze me with how knowledgeable you are. I gotta be honest, sometimes it's like reading greek.

 

I put Delphi from them in my 86 L98 a while back, they work alright (and are very quiet) but even on a stock motor with just an open exhaust I can see the
ECU is at the very edge of being to correct the mixture at times. That probably isn't an issue for you with mods that you'll be tuning for, I don't see why
you'd spend that much money if that's the case. I'm not up to speed but I'm certain there is a better option if you aren't trying to keep a stock ECU and tune.

 

I would only bother with Delphi if you're using a stock tune. Since you're changing the cam, you need a tune anyway so you might as well save some cash and get the Bosch TPI injectors from Southbay. You might do some calculations on your expected fuel consumption to determine whether 19lb will run out of headroom, I'd imagine the 22lb injectors could be accommodated in the tune and would surely be enough.

 

i have a near new condition 22 or 24 pound accell injectors from my old tpi engine id sell if you are interested

 

Interested. Do you know which they are?

 

typically when you have a stock 305 we suggest sticking with the 19lb injectors. However if you are going to tune the 22's should be fine. The bosch or the delphi injectors are the most reliable and efficient.
If you decide to purchase a set keep in mind that you guys receive a 10% discount by using promo code tg11 at checkout.
Any questions please contact us at the shop anytime.

516-442-4707

 

Thank you for the response. BK2Life, I'll pass on the accell but thank you very much for the offer. I'd rather support you guys since you support us!

 

much appreciated brother....again if you need anything just give us a shout

 

I gotta give props to SouthBay. I haven’t installed my products yet but packaging was superb!


Sweet case too!

 

I read threads like this and think that if I didn't know better, mods would be impossible w/o toons. I actually used to think that....it held me back, 30 years ago. Exhaust only and the thing can't deal??
Recently, when I bought a junked '89 'Vette with clogged injectors, I went to the junk yard and got 8 used injectors from Buick 3800 V6's; 6 from one motor and 2 different style from a different year motor. Put them in my L98 and made 289 RWHP with dual exhaust, free mods a super ram and no tune at all. Did *I* need a toon?

 

Garage in = garage out, without having a wb readout of your pull or a datalog without being in pe. It’s hard to say what you were leaving on the table.

 

We did. You've seen it. Been covered.

That wasn't the question or the point.

 

Back before EFI was such a thing in enthusiast spaces, people would swap intakes and exhaust and cams and compression and timing and just damn near
anything and everything and be afraid to touch the old Holley they had on it. And mostly they ran okay reguardless as long as the
carb was in pretty good order. Were there gains to be had from tuning? Absolutely. That isn't a one to one comparison, but it's
illustrative. There were people when I was a kid that swore a carb never needed to be jetted no matter what was done to the motor it was on either,
because they got away with things and were content with it.

Ignorance is in fact bliss (and cheaper) so if you're happy with it, leave it alone and enjoy.

 

Agree. Well said and good example, b/c it's the same thing. The word "NEED" is widely misused in threads like this.

My son bought a WRX that ran like poo, made no power, broke up and wouldn't rev above 4500 RPM. The Suby Forums shouted at the top of their lungs that b/c my son's car had a turbo back exhaust and a hot air intake, it NEEDED a toon. NEEDED a toon!! The problem was that it wasn't toon'd for the intake and exhaust. -they cried. Really? Won't got over 4500 b/c of a toon on a turbo-back and intake? Sorry....but NFW. That was incredibly misleading. Fortunately, I knew better. After some actual diag, I found the pre-turbo cat had fallen apart and was plugging the outlet. No wonder it made no boost and wouldn't rev. Toons had nothing to do with it! Fixed the cat, and the thing ran like a raped ape. Did it NEED a toon? Absolutely not. Could it have benefited from a toon? Maybe. Probably. But it ran as awesome as any intake/exhaust WRX could/should run anyway. I had some kid tell me that his otherwise box-stock WRX needed a tune b/c he installed an oil catch can. Did it NEED at tune? Absolutely not. Could it have benefited from a tune? Sure...b/c no stock tune is perfect. But not b/c this dope had added a catch can. Do 3rd gens NEED a tune b/c of a cat back install? FK NO!! Could they benefit from one? Sure! B/c they could have benefitted from one before the cat back install, too!

I could go on and on, but it's more about "NEED" vs. want. It's the difference between having a car that runs good/is drivable (need), and "Hobby Tooning" (want). It's a personal decision about what is acceptable and what is not...drivability wise and power wise. For ME, if it idles like stock, drives like stock, gets like-stock gas mileage....and it makes WAY MORE POWER? To this guy (personal decision), it doesn't NEED a tune. Could it benefit from a toon? Maybe. Probably. But at that point? I probably don't care.

"Need". That word is where these conversations go awry and can be misleading to someone pondering some changes.

 

People would take you more seriously if you'd spell "tune" correctly and not try to be so preemptively derisive about it.
You don't have any enemies here other than those you might make yourself.

I can also tell you that my 86 L98 with a fairly open exhaust and the Delphi injectors that are supposed to be drop in, aren't, and
it runs differently than it did with the stock injectors. I can look on my scanner and see it in real time and I can see the ECU fighting to compensate
and that while it is mostly able to do so, it's a near thing sometimes. A less observant or particular person, or without tools to watch it in use, might never notice.
They would then get on a forum online and say "no tune needed, runs fine".
When it does in fact need a tune to be "right".
There are dozens if not hundreds of posts where folks have put I believe they are Bosch III injectors (and others) in these motors and they have
run in all sorts of weird and undesirable ways until someone adjusted the injector parameters in the ECU so that it knew what it was
working with, the Delphi are closer to matching stock but not exact. And some people just flat don't notice when things aren't running right,
or the injectors they were replacing were so screwed up it was an improvement regardless.
I'm not going to do anything else with this motor other than drive it till it breaks so it's good-enough, but it's not right.
So like yourself, in this case I'm content with it the way it is for now in light of the cost and effort to improve it.




If you ever get a chance to install Megasquirt from scratch on a motor and start from the base settings and spend the time getting one to run to
near OE levels you'd appreciate how much effort goes into such stuff. I've done it twice now, and it sucked but did work out well in the end.
I have a lot of respect for the people that do that sort of thing (well) for a living.

 

Yes, I'm sure that it's missed in any posts that I've made on the matter, so for the record, agree 100% that.tuning takes considerable effort and time...and that's after you actually learn how to "do it". So I totally respect the effort/knowledge/desire of those who do it...AND stick with the process, to get it right. Totally. The people who choose to delve into it to the extent that they do, I completely respect that. Much like I respect someone building an all forged, aluminum block, gold plated heads, magnesium bespoke intake.....etc. engine....but I'm not likely going to do that. Nor would I say that anyone else NEED to. They don't.

Typing "toons" entertains me so I have done it for that reason, alone. No one need be offended by it.

 

So it was like five years ago I did this research but I'm fairly confident the injector battery offset / latency / dead time whatever you want to call it is not identical between the Delphi and Bosch III.

General lore consensus has the Delphis being "most similar" to stock i.e. they are most likely to have a compatible injector battery offset with the factory tune. I have no data to back this up except I have a stock tune, stock motor with Delphis and the BLMs were very close to 128 when I took a couple datalogs.

I run the Bosch IIIs with my non-stock FiTech setup since the only injector calibration available is flow rate and you couldn't convince me that somehow Delphis would do better in that situation.

I'd be willing to believe some stock tunes are better at compensating for minor differences in injectors than others. I'm pretty sure the factory spec injector changed from year to year, were the voltage offsets consistent between them? Seems like these days there's one injector per manufacturer per flow rate so how close is that match really even going to be?

I'd also be willing to believe it doesn't matter much on a bunch of tired 200hp TPI setups that probably have thirteen other minor ailments.