Im not burning all the fuel with current setup. I was thinking adding a msd blaster coil but i keep running into the MSD 6-Series Ignition Box to compliment the coil but what does the ignition box do and is it worth it because i dont know what the dam thing even does

 

It basicly does the same then your dizzy..just computerized and more efficient !!!

In a short version..kind of.

To run a MSD 6 box u need a new dizzy compatible with a box and i recoment to spend the extra money on a marine blue box they are shock and water proof compared to the red ones..they also ( the new ones M6-2 )have the rev limiter chip option directly build in the box !

Hope that helps !

 

You do not need a new dizzy to run a MSD 6AL. Works with the stock TPI distributor. I have one on my car. You willl have to upgrade the spark plug wires but that is it and buy the jumper harness for an easy install.

It's basically a spark amplifier. It improved my idle quality and adds some zip to the accerlation. You can also up your spark plug gap with them. It is a must for me since I run a heavy shot of nitrous and need a complete burn. Overall, I would recommend it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8876/

 

Save your money if your car isn't heavily modified. It won't give you anything that a properly-working stock ignition won't.

 

my car has heavily ported heads and a 450+ lift cam and a heavily ported intake so im geting bassicly vaporized gassoiline coming out the tail pipe and alot of small explosins in the exaust because of this. would i get a good result with just a new msd coil cap rotor and wires or does the box make a huge difference is basicly what im asking

 

Yes, a MSD box will help with that a lot. The MSD coil is just a stock one painted red. But the box is an actual well proven upgrade.

 

is the 6A box a good idea (short on funds) somone posted in here it is not well shock proof i will be driving this alot will it last a long time?

 

I had problems with my t/a having the mini backfire issue as well as fouling plugs... as for what took care of it... msd-6a. improved acceleration and stopped the mini backfires and fouled plugs... I like it..

 

Yes, a basic 6A is just fine. That is the exact one I have had in my car for years. You do not need the marine or shock proof one. You will not be offroading in your firebird. At least I hope not.

 

I sure as hell hope not too. thanks for the help

 

Don't buy into the hype. Ignition upgrades are wasted money on our cars. TPI by design isn't a high rpm setup. The stock HEI is more then sufficient to support a TPI engine.

If you've got gas blowing out your tailpipes, then your tune probably needs some work. An MSD isn't going to fix the problem, even if it does hide the symptom.

 

MSD - multi spark ignition

"MSD’s ignition boxes feature Multiple Sparks at lower RPMS, along with a stronger, hotter, higher voltage spark to completely ignite the mixture."

Helps burn off all that extra fuel at the bottom end of a rich high performance engine or if you aren't runing rich you can add more fuel with better spark and make more power.

I don't know your setup, but if your worried bout cost I'd try some good wires/plugs 1st. I know wires/coil/control moduale made my rich TPI clean up, but I'm not a chip tuner otherwise It'd prob wouln't of been rich. Still I've herd some of the bigger injectors are just rich on the low end.

FYI more spark mean plugs wear out faster, platnium last long but copper makes a better spark.

I bet some would just say get a good tune on your chip or you can just add more juice and hope it's enuff.

 

Umm... no...

Do you know why they have multiple sparks? Because the spark duration of a capactive discharge ignition like the MSD is so short compared to the looooong spark of an inductive discharge ignition like the stock HEI, that they need multiple sparks at low RPM to equal it.

 

Not sure bout that, but I know from experiance it helps clean up on low end. Still multi-spark only goes to bout 2800-3000. I still say too many people just slap a part on and hope for more power w/o tuning, like ignition upgrades and not more fuel.

Hmmm now you got my curiosity. Wouldn't be the 1st time the masses used something other than what it was intended for, kinda like a lot of hot rodders use to do and how we got many of the parts today.

 

MSD started out making capacitive discharge systems for high-RPM racing engines, but along the way discovered that people would buy them and throw them on any old grocery-getter at no benefit to anything but the company's bottom line.

At high speeds the coil in an inductive discharge system doesn't have time to saturate the field, and output starts to drop until the plug starts to misfire. Along with the long charging time though, there's a long discharge time, and an LD system sustains the spark for 2-3 milliseconds after the initial firing. At a low speed of 1000 RPM when the engine is rotating 6 degrees every millisecond, the crank moves through about 15 degrees while the spark fires.

Capacitive discharge systems don't store energy in the coil field, so saturation time isn't an issue, and they can charge very quickly. The downside to the short charge time is a short spark, lasting only a couple of microseconds. However the charge time is so short that the system can be charged and discharged about every millisecond. Spark firing is useful over about 10 degrees of crank rotation, so at 1000 RPM (6 degrees/mS) there's time to fire maybe two useful sparks. Multiple strikes becomes essentially useless above about 1650 RPM where the crank rotates through the while 10 degree firing window in the 1 mS time it takes to fire one spark.

 

Good info, not what I've read/herd, but I'm not willing to dig up all the info atm too dispute it and am happy with my results using multi-spark. Now I must make clear I am no blind MSD-brand fan. So let me make this point, if a car idles at 800ish rpm and is rich how could it not benifet from multi-spark too ensure it gets spark and burns cleaner. Is there another way to make it clean up, yah program less fuel, turn the fuel PSI down a little. Maybe he can't tune or doesn't want too for w/e reason. Stock TPI's don't rev high. This guy has a rich condition and as he put heavily ported TPI, I'm not sure how high he revs, prob not 6000 so the top part of a msd might not help him as much. Still most people think peak power and well you gotta get too that peak the faster the better and MSD is a hotter spark period. Maybe less duration but hotter. If the energy was the same output just the duration was different I'd choose the shorter for a time sensative thing.

Ported heads, ported tpi, mild cam(I'd almost bet larger injectors maybe too big)more details would be helpfull, but doens't sound old grocery-getter too me. I didn't put a MSD on my TPI, as I said I'd try good wire/plugs first. I choose to bump up my ignition instead of tuning and it worked for me.

Ok lets say you have a TPI maxes out at 5400rpm, now lets say you got all the good stuff that lightens up rotating mass and makes it rev alot faster than stock. I could see a shorter stronger spark helping there. No more peak power, but as things speed up, shorter spark is better not just in max rpm.

Good discusion

 

If the car is rich, then find out why, and fix it. If tailpipe HC emissions are high because of inadequate ignition, then fix the stock ignition before you put on an expensive aftermarket racing part. You'll get the exact same results for less money and less effort.

An MSD might have a "hotter" spark, whatever that means, and for whatever good it does. Put an aftermarket coil and module in your stock exhaust and you'll have a "hotter" spark, too. If your stock components were good, you won't notice a lick of difference either way.

 

Apeiron, I guesing you have never actually owned an MSD box but have all the opinions in the world on it. Typical internet board. And the two guys who actually have used the product are totally full of it? But the guy who has never even used it is an expert. Hmmm...

I have used them on several cars. My 85 carb Camaro, my 92 ford f-150 straight six (which netted me 2 mpg with the box) and really helped pulling a trailer, and finally my 88IROC. Every vehicle I have installed it on has netted me better fuel mileage and performance. Every single one of them!! A lot of performance cars run rich on the bottom because you need to tune for more fuel on the top end. It's just something you have to deal with the more performance you add into the application. A heavily ported and cam'd car is going to run fat on the bottom and it's just a trade off you have to accept. Not something you can just correct without hurting you somewhere else. The MSD box helps clean up that fat bottom end and makes sure that spark does not miss when you really need it on the top end.

It does work!!

 

I've got 3 of them installed on vehicles right now.

They showed improvement for you on stock or nearly-stock vehicles? Hey that's great, I'm happy you had results. You could have spent less money to fix your old ignition components, but whatever works in the end.

 

U all need to stop your chilish back and forth postings..and help the dude to find the correct set up and get him going !!!!

This is not about i have u have !!
Wonder why most every thread on here needs to turn in a pissing match..some of them even me included !!

So lets make this better for 2011 .

HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!

 

im looking into this as well and appreciate the info. what about the msd streetfire? a little less expesive and will the msd 8876 adapter plug into that?

 

The GM HEI distributor/ignition system is a very capable setup. There's little to gain by blowing a bunch of money on expensive ignition components. The effect on a street car is largely placebo. If someone wants to blindly buy into it, because they've always wanted one, or want something to list in their signature, that's their choice. But when someone asks for advice about something they don't understand, they're going to get advice both for and against, the final call is up to them.

 

I have never used the Streetfire before but it appears the box is a little smaller (easier to mount) and it also has a really neat adjustable rev limiter built into the box itself instead of having to use pills like in the 6AL. My guess is it is probably foriegn made and hence the cheaper price.

And based on the instructions you can use the quick install harness 8876 with it.
http://www.street-fire.com/pdf/5520.pdf

 

Try the new MSD Placebo-Fire 2000.


It has a bluer spark and a redder box. Adds 30-40 HP to a stock engine.

...JK!!...

 

I didn't have any ign. problems to be fixed on my vehicles. You own three of them but this all snake oil b.s.?? Amazing, just amazing. Then why did you buy three of them if your factory ign. is good enough and they are all snake oil?

 

its completely up to you on your decision like Drew said i have the whole setup dizzy 6AL box and all and like people have said it is useless for a street setup but if you have a good amount of mods and are getting small explosions in the exhaust then i would recommend it you will see a difference in idle stability and a quicker rev if i could go back i probably would have waited to buy it and spent the money elsewhere but in your case it would be a good investment.

the box creates a multi-spark of your normal single spark a new coil with help to amplify the spark more then a stock coil the dizzy in a tpi car will work but by buying the msd one you will have a better piece of mind in build quality and newer parts and lastly the wires have been tested and produce less resistance then stock replacement wires which means that less energy is wasted getting to your spark plugs causing it to be a hotter spark

also the adapter wire works perfect with the setup and the gm dual coil
if you want ill get you all the part numbers

 

The engines they're on aren't even remotely stock.

 

i would also like to add that after my msd install i passed emissions in nj with less the half of the allowed emissions. i wish i had a picture of the paper and the guys face when he read the readout