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[Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

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Old Aug 10, 2011 | 06:17 AM
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Car: 1991 Z28 Camaro
Engine: 5.0 305 TPI
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[Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

Lately the 305's been taking a long time to start, before it used to be the typically quick crank, now it's taking a long time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IksTC6LF_g
(My foot was not on the pedal at all during this video)
(Tach is messed up as well)

Is it because I switched to synthetic oil blend, instead of high mileage oil?

Sometimes to speed up the half crank half dying, i press on the pedal in an attempt to get more fuel to crank the rest of the engine. Engine idle's fine I guess afterwards.

This usually happens at cold starts, when the engine's warm it cranks quick as usual. I just don't understand what conditions cause this.

Last edited by Krishan; Aug 10, 2011 at 06:20 AM.
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Old Aug 10, 2011 | 08:10 AM
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From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: [Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

Next time the engine has been sitting for awhile, and when the engine gets cold, remove the cap on the schraeder valve on the fuel rail, depress it, and see if there is fuel in the rails. I had a similar problem with my GTA when it got cold and was sitting for awhile, as some of the injectors were a little leaky on me essentially causing an immediate drop in pressure....
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Old Aug 10, 2011 | 09:05 AM
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From: Bloomfield, NJ
Car: 1991 Z28 Camaro
Engine: 5.0 305 TPI
Transmission: 4-spd Auto
Re: [Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

What would that indicate then if there is/is no fuel in the rails?

And where what does a schraeder valve look like?

Excuse my novice-ness to specific engine parts.
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Old Aug 10, 2011 | 09:11 AM
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From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: [Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

Originally Posted by Krishan
What would that indicate then if there is/is no fuel in the rails?
It would indicate that the pressure in the rail isn't being held like it is supposed to be, and that when the engine gets cold, this decrease in pressure allows for slightly longer cranking. The worse the leak, the longer the crank. When you turn your engine off, the pressure in your fuel lines should remain, if it doesn't because of a leaky injector(s) and/or regulator, it will take additional time for it to start because the pump isn't able to prime, and it needs to play catch up w/the missing pressure....

Originally Posted by Krishan
And where what does a schraeder valve look like?

Last edited by Street Lethal; Aug 10, 2011 at 09:15 AM.
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Old Aug 12, 2011 | 09:24 AM
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From: Bloomfield, NJ
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Transmission: 4-spd Auto
Re: [Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

So I look at the schraeder valve, and I notice: theres no cap on it!

So the engine's cold, and i poke the needle with the tip of a screwdriver, gas comes out
Crank the engine again, long crank...again.

And now as I look at the uncovered valve, I see gasoline STILL seeping out and I havent even touched it yet.
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Old Aug 12, 2011 | 01:17 PM
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From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: [Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

Originally Posted by Krishan
So I look at the schraeder valve, and I notice: theres no cap on it!

So the engine's cold, and i poke the needle with the tip of a screwdriver, gas comes out
Crank the engine again, long crank...again.

And now as I look at the uncovered valve, I see gasoline STILL seeping out and I havent even touched it yet.
That is definitely an issue, not necessarily the issue, but it's an issue that isn't helping. You can get your hands on a used one for essentially nothing over at the junkyard, or you can simply buy a new one online and spend a little bit of money, Click Here. Either way that issue needs to be taken care of....

Once that is fixed, and if the problem persists, I would inspect the diaphragm on the regulator to make sure fuel isn't seeping out, as well as the injectors themselves. The way we check for leaky injectors is by removing and lifting the fuel rail up in the air with the injectors being removed from the intake manifold, but kept in place in the fuel rail, turning the key in the ON position (do not start the engine), and seeing if any of them are leaking. Once these areas are confirmed, we can then move on to other possibilities....
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Old Aug 13, 2011 | 05:41 AM
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From: Bloomfield, NJ
Car: 1991 Z28 Camaro
Engine: 5.0 305 TPI
Transmission: 4-spd Auto
Re: [Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

Originally Posted by Street Lethal
...

Once that is fixed, and if the problem persists, I would inspect the diaphragm on the regulator to make sure fuel isn't seeping out, as well as the injectors themselves. The way we check for leaky injectors is by removing and lifting the fuel rail up in the air with the injectors being removed from the intake manifold, but kept in place in the fuel rail, turning the key in the ON position (do not start the engine), and seeing if any of them are leaking. Once these areas are confirmed, we can then move on to other possibilities....
When you say "diaphragm on the regulator", what regulator are you referring to?

Will the fuel rail come off together with the injectors as one piece?-or do I need to take off piece by piece and reassemble it outside the engine.

Is there anything delicate in particular that I should take extra precautions with as I remove the fuel rail?
====
Can you explain what goes wrong with the engine during cranking when the fuel injectors are leaky-like why it takes a longer time and what the engine/computer does to finally get the motor running. Im just thinking in terms of theory

Last edited by Krishan; Aug 13, 2011 at 05:52 AM.
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Old Aug 13, 2011 | 08:07 AM
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From: NYC / Jersey
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Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: [Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

Originally Posted by Krishan
When you say "diaphragm on the regulator", what regulator are you referring to?
The fuel regulator, which is the cylinder shaped unit on the fuel rail located right behind the schraeder valve that you depressed. It will have a vacuum reference from the upper intake plenum leading to it. Inspect the area to see if there is a leak where the regulator housing bolts down....

Originally Posted by Krishan
Will the fuel rail come off together with the injectors as one piece?-or do I need to take off piece by piece and reassemble it outside the engine.
The rail will come off in one piece, but all your doing is unbolting the four bolts that hold it in place, and lifting it up so that the bottom of the injectors are exposed. With the key placed in the ON position, the pump is triggered to prime, and the injectors should not open just yet. If any one of them do, then they are leaky....

Originally Posted by Krishan
Is there anything delicate in particular that I should take extra precautions with as I remove the fuel rail?
The upper plenum and runners are going to have to be removed to lift the fuel rail, and if you can, try to save the gaskets so that you can reuse them for both (although a replacement set is very cheap). You'll want to keep the upper part of the injectors in the rail, and remove the lower part of the injector from the intake manifold. Try not to lose the o-rings that seal the injectors, and if one appears to be missing, check the injector bung in the manifold to see if it is stuck. When re-installing the injectors, lightly hit the o-rings with some petroleum jelly. Try not to kink any of the fuel lines as well....

Originally Posted by Krishan
Can you explain what goes wrong with the engine during cranking when the fuel injectors are leaky-like why it takes a longer time and what the engine/computer does to finally get the motor running. Im just thinking in terms of theory
When you turn the engine off, and if the injectors are in fact leaking, then the cylinders are filling up with fuel, causing a very rich condition. With too much fuel the engine is not going to immediately start up the way it normally would. It's known as flooding the engine....
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Old Aug 15, 2011 | 10:56 AM
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Re: [Video] Crazy long crank time, what do my gauges say?

Next time you try to start the car, hold the throttle to the boards when you crank, and see if that results in the car starting faster. My GTA takes forever to start when it's been less than 12+ hours since having last run, and I think it's because I have an injector(s) leaking. It starts a lot better if I keep the throttle to the boards while I crank. If your car starts easier with it floored, it could be a good indication that you've got leaky injectors.
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