Does anyone know what year(s) or part number(s) PROM from a non VATS I might be able to swap into my 88 Firebird 5.7 TPI with VATS? The system is supposed to have VATS but I dont have any of the components, key, lock cyl, module or wiring. I was hoping I could swap a non VATS PROM in and be all set but I dont have any info to go by. Or is there a way to "fake" the ECM just to get the car running? The ECM is a 7165.

 

you can buy a vats bypass module from painless wiring. the vats started to show up in 88 in the f body earlier in y. The 89 $6e has better tunes no cold start and a lean cruise. You can allways run a moates.net g1 piggyback and reprogram onto that. If you post your bcc I will look to see if you have vats on the memcal.

 

I dont know what "bcc" is but the ECM number is 7165. The #s on the memcal read
DELCO AKFR 2188 if that helps. Thanks again for your help.

 

The akfr is a 5.0l tpi , automatic transmission memcal no vats !! gm p/n 16082187

 

I did not have the broad cast code in my collection, so Im trusting information on the site I just downloaded it from to confirm.

 

Thank you soooo much!! I appreciate the info tremendously! Im a little nervous now that I know it's a 305 memcal. I bought this TPI setup from someone and trusted it was a 5.7 setup like he told me. I never did any research because Im a (stupidly) trusting person. I know the 5.0 and 5.7 injectors are different and I just put this setup on a fresh 5.7 rebuilt from a firebird! I had several of these setups and have done several TPI conversions and of course the one I do for my Dad I cant get to run!!!! I was really hoping it was a VATS issue but obviously not. Im stumped as to why I have no injector function!?! I have pulse via noid light but yet injectors dont work. good fuel press spark etc, EVERYTHING (sensors, switchs, modules etc) is new. Im STUMPED now!

 

used injectors and they have been sitting around for a while ?

 

Yea but I pulled the rail Saturday thinking either the rail or injectors were sludged up. They were clean. I did a bench test (I have a homemade station) and cleaned just for the hell of it. All had good flow and patterns and ohmed out at 16 ohms.

 

could be a bad ecm than if your getting the noid light to work.

 

Brand new ECM. Just bought reman Saturday because I figured it couldnt be anything else. When I say evrything is new I mean EVERYTHING is new. Ive even re-replaced stuff that I replaced during build (ICM, pickup) just in case I got bum ones with no help. Thats why Im so sbaffled. Technically this thing SHOULD run. I jusy dont get how I have pulse through the noid but injectors dont work however they all tested and worked perfect!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

i ran into the same thing with my 305. the injectors were bad so i had some 350 injectors laying around that i knew were good.i put them in and it wldnt do anything but crank over so i pulled them back out and put in some used ones n out of the yard and it fired right up. i read i cld use the 350 injectors but wld run rich when i tried it i got nothing and had to change them out.

 

have you checked both banks for pulse? Does the engine even attempt to start spit or sputter ?

 

Yes I have checked both sides and both have good pulse through noid light. It has no even sign of life unless i give it a shot of go-go juice (ether) then it'll fire breifly (until the ether runs out).

 

what is your fuel pressure at ?

 

i would guess many, many of us just do not possess the skill set to even begin to use moates software im sure its great but hey,

 

If the noid lights flash, then the ECM is working and pulsing the ground for the injectors. So you need to make sure there is enough fuel pressure at the rail (~42psi). If there is, then verify the injectors are spraying...if so, you have bigger issues (timing, compression, plugged exhaust...)

The VATS would have prevented the injectors from pulsing.

 

You really need to put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail. My guess is you don't have enough pressure. You also need to reprogram the Memcal for a 350. big differences in the two. Also the memcal you have is for a 305 manual Transmission. If you have an auto thats also a big problem. Check the for sale site here for a memcal.

 

Ive got great fuel pressure, timing dead on, compression great (fresh motor) and the exhaust isnt even bolted up at the moment. I know it sounds crazy but everything is there however the injectors just do not pump fuel through them even though there is pressure and pulse CRAZY RIGHT!!!. Ive Ohm'd them out and they're within spec. I have a home made injector bench tester and they have great flow and pattern on the bench. I am an experienced L1 Tech so I am no dummy when it comes to electrical and /or diagnostics which is why I have absolutely no rational, logical explaination.

 

To UTILITYGUY. Thanks for your help and info on the memcal situation. I will definitely get the correct one now that I know its not correct. Unfortunately(for me) I am a trusting person and when I bought this particular TPI setup the guy told me it was a 350 setup, injectors and all. shame on me I guess for not checking but now that I know Ill find the correct componemts for it. Thanks again to all and I will post some more this weekend when I get back to it and hopefully we can get to the bottom of it.

 

Maybe something simple. Have you checked pressure regulator? I had one that caused a bad misfire even though pressure was good. maybe bleed the line at the injector to see if you have pressure there.

 

So let me first start off by saying thanks to everyone for all the help and insight. I think this site is and all the people who come together and help each other out are absolutely awesome. That being said I am proud to post a fix (hopefully) for this thread. After a long frustrating battle I realized halfway through the build we had a bum fuel pump. We replaced it with a universal in line. Problem was we were given the wrong pump from what we ordered!! After starting from square one (again) I had over 120 p.s.i of fuel pressure!!!!!! The pressure was so through the roof the injectors couldnt even work. Killed the pump, relieved some pressure and BOOM! Injectors started pumping fuel!!! I threw a lower pump in (thats still too much I know) and car fired. It now starts and dies which Im assuming will be corrected tomorrrow once the correct pump is installed. Thanks again to everyone who helped with this.

 

cool

 

That would indicate a regulator problem.
The reg should bleed off excess pressure down to what the reg is set at

I have a Aeromotive A1000 pump that makes 90 psi and my reg happily pulls that down to the required 45 psi

 

Sorry to say I may have jumped the gun a bit with calling this fixed! It does start now (sometimes) which is good but I have NO acceleration. Hit the throttle and either nothing happens (like its a fly by wire with a problem) or it dies out as soon as you crack it. Im hoping ive got a vacuum leak. ill keep you posted.

 

With a 305 PROM, you are probably running very lean. You can up the fuel pressure to fake larger injectors, but the fix will be the correct PROM (it contains engine and injector size parameters, both which are different from 305 to 350)