The parts are almost all collected to swap to efi this fall. Money is available now and burning a hole in my pocket. Engine now is 355 with forged flattop pistons (4 eyebrow reliefs), forged crank, four bolt mains. Have bought a complete F.I.R.S.T tpi along with EBL ecu. Taking delivery of Profiler 185 heads this week. Car is a 69 Camaro. Trans is 2004R with a 2200 stall, 3.42 gears out back. Now its time to pick up a retro roller cam. I have been reading all the articles. A Tpis ZZ-409 sounds intriguing. Worried it is old tech though. Well respected cam guru recommends a cam with .510/.491 221/223 108 sep. Says 108 will work well with EFI that its all about the valve timing events. I was stunned at his power estimates, 420 hp/400 tq. Everything I have ever read on a combo like mine is to expect something more like 420/430 HP with anywhere between 450/500 TQ. What am I missing here? I don't care about the rep of anybody when it comes to car parts, I care about what actually works. Any recommendations from anybody. Thanks

 

Give some of the larger cam companies a call, and have a chat with their techs. Their JOB is to make cam recommendations, based on your engine combo. They know the right questions to ask.

 

Give Mike Jones a call @ Jones cam

 

Sorry, pal, but those jokers don't know a damn thing. You can call Crane, Comp, Isky and get a different answer every time depending on who you talk to.

 

I have heard of him. I will call. I just feel that with flow numbers like these:

185cc with 2.02 Valves

.200 135 110
.300 201 145
.400 245 180
.500 265 206
.600 270 213

That cam is leaving a lot of lift on the table plus I am a little leery of the 108 LSA. Cam designer says LSA is what it is a that what it comes out to be when figuring the valve timing events. This guy is a well known cam guru and has forgotten more about cams then I will ever know but his cam just doesn't sound right.

 

Couple things. Agreed - I would not trust the cam manufactures for a recommendation using this intake – single plane or dual plane,, maybe,, even a stock TPI they MIGHT be in the ball park. However, I think Mike Jones has worked with a few of the folks running welded and fully ported TPIs and at least one using a FIRST base. From what I know about these FIRST intakes, he’s made really good recommendations and I think the folks are happy with the way the cam performs.

I ran a box stock FIRST on a flat top 355 with old G1 Twisted Wedge TFS heads (245-ish cfm at lift) a few years back with a 218/228-110 .498/.504 flat tappet (with 1.6 rockers). Shorty headers, single 3” to a decent single in, dual out, welded DynoMax. It was basically stuff I had laying around, not optimal at all, and it still ran pretty good. 1986 IROC, TH350, 3.23 gears, 2800rpm stall, not much weight reduction and still ran mid-12.3s around 108mph in 50-degree temps at 800ft above sea level.

I’d be happy to throw some cam numbers your way, but I need to know what exhaust headers, diameter and length, and the type pipes and mufflers you’re going to run. That makes a HUGE difference in what kind of lobe spread since the better the exhaust the tighter you can run. Also, how important is the idle characteristics to you? You’re a little limited in how much overlap you can run with that 2200 stall, but if you’re looking for as smooth an idle as possible you can still run a decent amount of duration if you widen the lobe spread.

Also, with these newer heads, the more lift you can run, the better overall power you’re going to make. Comp has a couple of killer hydraulic roller lobe designs that will let you get in the .600 lift range with 1.6:1 rockers with as little as 224-degrees at .050” lift. They require decent but not near the springs you would need to run with a single plane intake - since the long tube runner intake is limiting you to no more than a 6000rpm shift point.

Anyway, exhaust specifics (ie -1.625”, 32”, dual 2.5” MagnaFlows),, idle characteristics (smooth, or I don't care,,, as in as much duration as possible and still keep my teeth from jarring when I put it in gear), and whether or not it’s a cruiser or something you’re going to be on the brakes a lot (also helps determine the amount of overlap/vacuum needed). Not asking and not getting this type info is why you can get a lot of different recommendations - what I'd be OK with running someone else might not.

Edit - also, I hope that 200R4 was built by someone that knows how to build them. This combination is going to murder second gear if not. I had someone locally install all Art Carr innards in one and it held up for exactly three full throttle first to second gear shifts with less torque at the shift recovery point than you're going to be making (regardless of cam).

 

just your basic four into one, 1 and 5/8 diameter headers bought about 20 years ago. can't remember the length but typical for a 1969 Camaro. 2.5 dual exhaust with crossover and turbo mufflers. Yeah, I know the converter limits I'm but I am sticking with the 2200 stall. I want a nice noticeable crisp crackly idle. Lift in the .600's brings into question cam to valve interference. Something in the .520-.540 range would be about right.

That 200R4 was built by Extreme Automatics to Stage II specs. Able to handle 750 HP and 600 lb ft of TQ. Lonnie puts better parts than Carr puts in their trannys.

 

And that is different from talking to any other collection of people how?

 

With the 2.5” dual turbos and that cam you’re looking at about 410-415HP around 5300rpm and 470-475TQ around 4000 rpm and pulling about 16” vacuum at idle.

Comp Cam Lobe Specs
3008 272 222 147 .357 .065 .052 .536 w/1.5s .571 .607
3009 276 226 150 .359 .072 .058 .539 w/1.5s .574 .610
On a 110 spread +4 you’re looking at about 420-425HP around 5400rpm and 480-485TQ around 4000 rpm and pulling around 16.5” vacuum at idle.

3009 276 226 150 .359 .072 .058 .539w/1.5s .574 .610
13080 278 228 152 .360 .075 .062 .540w/1.5s .576 .612
On a 112 +4 spread you’re looking at about 430-435HP around 5400rpm and 485-490TQ around 4200 rpm and pulling around 16.5” vacuum at idle. Down around 10lb/ft off the converter, about the same power at the shift recovery, 10 or so HP at peak and shift point. Quarter Mile ET wise probably run about the same as the 110 spread specs with your converter. This one would run a little better from a kick.

If I were you, I’d go with the 110 cam and get some Magna Flow or Welded DynoMax mufflers. Doing so would give you a little more power under the curve and about the same peak numbers as the 112 specs. Going with 1.6:1 rocker arms would be another nice little bump in power as well – doing both would put you in the 445-450HP/500-505TQ range.

 

Chris Straub is the man and explained perfectly his cam choice. Rolling with his cam choice. Thanks to all who participated.

 

Cant go wrong with him either. You'll be happy. Motor will be pretty stout