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Old 08-12-2017, 10:56 PM   #1
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Emissions

The punks at the station said the little filter at the front wont cut it with 4 emissions controlled areas in my state, and that i need to satisfy their requirement and then come back:
https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/vi/airIntake.htm

What it sounds like from the website is that I need the factory stuff from the truck (TBI and heat tube from the header, and theres no way Im putting all of the TBI stuff back on), or a CARB approved air intake. So something like a thirdgen camaro intake (which wouldnt fit anyway) wouldnt be approved. It would have to be original factory stuff, or approved aftermarket with a CARB label.

If anyone has any ideas let me know please. It seems like most of everything TPI thirdgen has been discontinued. Any most of the stuff on ebay is offroad custom junk.

Although this may work, if the bend doesnt hit the radiator, but the hose is in the way
http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-94-95-96-...item567de9f94d
http://www.speedshopstore.com/k-and-...-5-7l-kit.html
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:31 AM   #2
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Re: Emissions

Is it required in Texas that the hood must be opened?

Edit: I read the link. Visual inspection required.
If your vehicle came equipped with a TAC system and if it was removed and replaced with an open-type design air filter/intake assembly, the vehicle will fail the visual emissions component inspection.

You're screwed unless you can find something CARB approved.

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Old 08-13-2017, 03:53 PM   #3
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Re: Emissions

Thanks
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:16 PM   #4
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Re: Emissions

that motor didn't come with the HOT air system, so you don't need it, but unfortunately that filter won't cut it because that motor did intake fresh cold air. you need something similar to the factory thirdgen filter box with the hose from the throttle body to the filter housing.
this is what i have on my car, it passed just fine years ago when i got my state inspection license. by pass just fine, i mean the instructors who give the classes & the tests where i took the classes & the tests looked it over and said it was fine. including having true dual exhaust and dual cats as the motor i used had dual cats from the factory.
my air box is out of position, the hose i was using got damaged the last time i had it out. also the box not from a thirdgen, seems like i got it off a 97 or newer S10 blazer. the big thing is getting the air box so the filter is pulling air from the front side of the core support.
one thing, you may need to either remove your fan shroud, or cut it down. im guessing you have electric fans on already so it should be a problem.
edit, i just noticed it looks like you put an older motor/system in a newer vehicle, that can be a
big problem.
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:42 PM   #5
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Re: Emissions

I just have the filter there as temporary. Its not there long term, until i find a better solution.
What is the big problem? Is it not legal to put a 92 intake on a 95 motor?
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:15 PM   #6
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Re: Emissions

its mainly the vehicle, but no it isn't, if you used like a 95 fourthgen or later motor/system, then its ok according to federal regulations. legally you can swap a newer motor/system into an older vehicle, but not an older system/motor into a newer vehicle.
with what you got, your in an area where it depends on the guys checking it & how sharp/strict they are. since they said the air filter, im thinking that if you can, from the throttle body forward get it like mine is but have the inlet side of filter box so its actually against the core suppost & pulling air from the front side & see what they say. been a while since i was last under the hood of a pickup, but it seems like the core support is open behind the headlights like mine is.

if you used just the TPI intake & not the TPI motor or at least the TPI cam, your're missing a fair amount of performance, & some fuel milage too.
i did a TPI short block in a friends TBI subruban a number of years back & it worked out really good.
i 100% believe chevy should have at the minimum offered at least the 305 TPI in the pickups starting in 88. but then i guess they couldn't have sold the 454 pickups cause the TPI 305 would have out performed the big block.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:25 PM   #7
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Re: Emissions

this engine is 185k and will have to be replaced with a crate soon anyway and i wanted to get the intake piece out of the way, just to see if it would work with the accessories, wiring, computer, etc. And it appears it does.

I have been searching all day and I guess Im just going to have to go with the links i provided at the top. The heat riser tube is an issue and that website doesnt say anything about carrying over factory OEM components from any other vehicle (an S10, or firebird for example). It only says if the heat riser tube isnt available, than a CARB exempt device must be present. So i suppose my only option is something like that K&n.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:50 PM   #8
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Re: Emissions

the TPI system didn't come with HOT air so you should be ok there, unless it has the place for the hose to hookup on the exhaust.
if you have to, maybe just route some of the heat riser hose from the manifold up to the front side of the air box & put a fitting for it on? if you do that, make sure the HOT air tube is on the front/dirty side of the air filter.

i would try a wreaking yard for the air box & intake hose.
the 90 i have on mine is a cheap chrome piece from some cold air intake kit one of the guys where i use to work got for his car but didn't need.

i almost forgot about this, to start with when i first got the TPI installed in my car i used some PVC pipe & a PVC 90 for a little while. it won't last long as the heat deforms the PVC, but it may get you by, and its cheap. sand it & hit it with some flat black paint and give it a try.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:27 PM   #9
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Re: Emissions

The heat riser tube is on the passenger side header (standard for TBI trucks), and of course the TPI\LT1 intake way up front. So with that distance seems not possible.
What type of fans are those do you have?
Mine are flex a lite and stick out 4.5 inches. If Ls1 fans dont come out that much then i might pick up some of those so i get more room in front.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:50 PM   #10
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Re: Emissions

right now i have 3 fans on my car, 1 on the backside & 2 in front of the condenser.
im not sure what the fan on the back side is, it and a couple others were in a trailer my brother picked up to haul a load when he was a truck driver. they delivered parts to both ford & GM factories.
i have another fan from a thirdgen for the back, i had to pull it off so the intake hose would fit.
the front 2 are cheap parts house fans, possibly flex lites i got back around 1990 to help the A/C cool better at idle. 1 is 14 inches, the other is 16. back then they worked only when the compressor was on & the torque converter was off. all are controlled by the ECM now.
the back one could be closer to the radiator, but my mounting of the radiator isn't the best & it moves front to back, so it needs some room.

you can do like i did & move your battery over to the left fender & put the air box where the battery is now. unless they changed it, nothing says how long the heat riser hose can be, just that it has to be there & hooked up.
so, get a couple hoses & connnect them together & then see what they say.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:52 PM   #11
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Re: Emissions

the 11oz can of WD40 was the only thing i had handy for a point of reference.

i been out of auto repair for a few years now, does your truck need to be put on a dyno for the emissions test?

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Old 08-15-2017, 12:57 AM   #12
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Re: Emissions

You should only need to satisfy the letter of the law. In other words, like DENN_SHAH said, nothing says how long the heat riser hose can be, just that it has to be there & hooked up. So you could probably get away with something like this:
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:50 PM   #13
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Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoEmissions84TA View Post
You should only need to satisfy the letter of the law. In other words, like DENN_SHAH said, nothing says how long the heat riser hose can be, just that it has to be there & hooked up. So you could probably get away with something like this:
Right, but how are you going to hook up a heater hose into an LT1 throttle body lol
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:13 PM   #14
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Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DENN_SHAH View Post
the 11oz can of WD40 was the only thing i had handy for a point of reference.

i been out of auto repair for a few years now, does your truck need to be put on a dyno for the emissions test?
If I remember, the law says 25 years and older do not need to be tested. And even tho its a 95, it has a manufacture date of 94. So if I recall, 1994+25 years, December of 2019 would be the first year I no longer need a dyno. So this and next year I still need it.
But either way, I passed the dyno last year with flying colors. The inspectors were actually kind of amazed that a 95 model truck with 175k on it had such low NO and CO2 readings. So im not worried about the dyno. Its just the visual.
Check out what this guy has tho:
I think thats the firebird elbow coming off the TB?
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Old 08-16-2017, 09:40 AM   #15
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Re: Emissions

You can use the firebird elbow. I have seen pictures of it piped to 00+ truck air filter box. Getting air from the fender inlet.
The round filter box is what I'm referring to.
This might work.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/99-07-GMC-CHEV...%257Ciid%253A9
http://m.ebay.com/itm/SUBURBAN-Air-I...%257Ciid%253A9
Two different styles the tbi vortec might be the answer.

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Old 08-16-2017, 10:24 PM   #16
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Re: Emissions

that is a really nice truck in the vid. it looks like its from a firebird to me.
yeah, its 25 years & your done with tail pipe emissions, but you still have the visual part.
the HOT air tube goes in front of the dirty side of the air filter.
a fitting of about the right size PVC pipe, about 1.5~2 inches glued in to a hole on the air box should work.
i forgot there are holes in the inner fenders for the cold air intake on the pickups. the HOT air hose ran into the bellows between the filter housing & the fender should be good.
once you get it inspected, you can make it look good under the hood & save the stuff for next year.
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:11 AM   #17
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Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance View Post
You can use the firebird elbow. I have seen pictures of it piped to 00+ truck air filter box. Getting air from the fender inlet.
The round filter box is what I'm referring to.
This might work.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/99-07-GMC-CHEV...%257Ciid%253A9
http://m.ebay.com/itm/SUBURBAN-Air-I...%257Ciid%253A9
Two different styles the tbi vortec might be the answer.
Good idea with the NBS vortec truck box if the tube fits the firebird. Or close enough to modify.
This would require relocating the battery over to the drivers side, which people do and there are instructions for with no problem (but sucks because its opposite of where the starter is).
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:22 AM   #18
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Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DENN_SHAH View Post
that is a really nice truck in the vid. it looks like its from a firebird to me.
yeah, its 25 years & your done with tail pipe emissions, but you still have the visual part.
the HOT air tube goes in front of the dirty side of the air filter.
a fitting of about the right size PVC pipe, about 1.5~2 inches glued in to a hole on the air box should work.
i forgot there are holes in the inner fenders for the cold air intake on the pickups. the HOT air hose ran into the bellows between the filter housing & the fender should be good.
once you get it inspected, you can make it look good under the hood & save the stuff for next year.
It looks like that the firebird elbow is not going to be long enough to reach a NBS truck air box, so a tube is going to have to probably be fabricated. I suppose I could make something in the middle, and then drill a hole down below and run the damn air tube into it.

I think instead of using hot tubes, for the TPI, GM went with radiator fluid. People do the coolant bypass mod if they live in the south and ask why GM did it (and assume it was because to keep the TB from freezing it up). I think it was probably for the same reason they added those damn air tubes off the manifolds for the TBIs. To inject hot air into the TB for emissions. The Texas DOT government website says so. Its for emissions, and OBD2 vehicles are smart enough to where they dont need to have hot air injected into the intake lol
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:38 PM   #19
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Re: Emissions

the elbow doesn't need to reach the filter housing, it just needs to make the turn and clear everything. you can use some PVC pipe to get to the air box.

the HOT air did help some with throttle blades freezing at startup, but that was not its main reason being there. you can still have it happen even with the motor warmed up.

you do not introduce the HOT air between the air filter & motor. it always goes in front of the air filter, on the dirty side.
the HOT air is only used when the motor is cold to help the fuel atomize better.
there are a few reasons why the newer systems don't have it.
one is they have better fuel control, also higher fuel pressure helps atomization along with the fuel being injected closer to the cylinder, and in more & more cases injected right into the combustion chamber under compression.
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:15 AM   #20
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Re: Emissions

The elbow is in today. It wraps around so much nicer than the 1LE. But it hits the flex fans.
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:18 AM   #21
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Re: Emissions

It looks like you can cut off as much as necessary at the throttle body.
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Old 08-18-2017, 11:42 PM   #22
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Re: Emissions

Thats true. Ill give that a shot. But theres no point until I can at least get it running lol. I still cant figure out why it wont start.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:55 PM   #23
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Re: Emissions

Did you see this? I don't know if this will solve your problem. Check into it.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exte...tune-port.html
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:57 PM   #24
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Re: Emissions

Ive taken the one off my camaro and lined it up with my truck to get a visual, and it doesnt work right. I would have to cut into the front end of the truck a lot just to mount the air filters lol.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:39 PM   #25
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Re: Emissions

Tuned and DENN, this is what I cam up with. A 99+ GM truck box with the back inlet removed, and Airraid's u-build-it system.
The box has to sit an an angle. If it sits square (mounted against the side of the fender), it sits too tall, hitting the hood, and one of the mounting screws also rests on top of the transmission cooler lines. With the box at an angle, not only did I not have to drill into the fender (I used an existing battery tray hole), but the top of the box sits level with the ground/hood). The bottom of the box rests on the AC condensor lines a little also.
The outlet of the box is 4 inches, so I have on it a reducer to 3 inches. Then a 30 degree bend upwards out of the way of the fans, then straight up so it will rest on the shroud, then another 30, then a 90 into a camaro tube. I havent decided if I will get couplers for that 30 degree bend, or sand it down and glue it all together.

It looks like the camaro tube is 3.5 inches though. so I may throw this all away and replace with 3.5, if it even really makes a difference. I wonder why GM went with 3 inches firebird and 3.5 camaro.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:41 PM   #26
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Re: Emissions

Looks like that should pass emission testing/ inspection looks good.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:46 PM   #27
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Re: Emissions

I dunno well see. This definitely looks a little more factory than some big K&N mounted on the TB or off to the side. If it still has to have that stupid air tube that it shouldnt be that big of a deal to run one from the header to that box underneath now that its all on that side.
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:00 AM   #28
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Re: Emissions

You're getting there. Good luck with passing visual.
What a bunch of BS, huh? I suppose they will blame you for global warming.
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:33 AM   #29
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Re: Emissions

Funny how that works isn't it?

I took my 1971 Camaro that originally came with a 2bbl carb and at best got about 14-15 mpg on the highway and probably spewed out horrendous amount of HC's... Put an "illegal" EFI system on it and am getting 27 mpg highway. Yet rather than "thanking" me, the law would actually punish me.
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:52 PM   #30
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Re: Emissions

What made it illegal?
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:12 PM   #31
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Re: Emissions

Didn't retain the emissions equipment and it has a Miniram intake, with no EGR, no smog pump. I kept the correct late model charcoal cannister because it vents the tank properly.
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Old 09-22-2017, 05:24 PM   #32
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Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears


Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro View Post
Tuned and DENN, this is what I cam up with. A 99+ GM truck box with the back inlet removed, and Airraid's u-build-it system.
The box has to sit an an angle. If it sits square (mounted against the side of the fender), it sits too tall, hitting the hood, and one of the mounting screws also rests on top of the transmission cooler lines. With the box at an angle, not only did I not have to drill into the fender (I used an existing battery tray hole), but the top of the box sits level with the ground/hood). The bottom of the box rests on the AC condensor lines a little also.
The outlet of the box is 4 inches, so I have on it a reducer to 3 inches. Then a 30 degree bend upwards out of the way of the fans, then straight up so it will rest on the shroud, then another 30, then a 90 into a camaro tube. I havent decided if I will get couplers for that 30 degree bend, or sand it down and glue it all together.

It looks like the camaro tube is 3.5 inches though. so I may throw this all away and replace with 3.5, if it even really makes a difference. I wonder why GM went with 3 inches firebird and 3.5 camaro.
Not sure why you are having so much problem myself. My 1983 G-van had an almost identical filter on it for a long time and passed every year. I eventually moved the battery and used a LT1 Impala SS CAI kit and still had no issues passing. The last year it had to run on the dyno it practically blew ZERO's from a 350 TPI with a decent cam and Vortec heads without EGR. It also had Doug Thorley tri-y headers and 2.5" dual exhaust with dual 2.5" Cats and a X-pipe.

What is nice about my OBD2 Express van that I am converting to TPI is they will not even pop the hood on it much less be able to see anything when they do. The factory airbox and factory coolant reservoir cover the whole engine from the front. Plan to paint the TPI black and hide it out of site, hook the factory air intake too it and go about life.

Where did you find the Camaro intake bellows?

My brothers 1987 G20 just passed with a 6.0L and a big cone filter mounted right on the throttle body although it is no longer a smog check, just a visual.

Last edited by Fast355; 09-22-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 09-22-2017, 05:34 PM   #33
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Re: Emissions

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Originally Posted by ULTM8Z View Post
Funny how that works isn't it?

I took my 1971 Camaro that originally came with a 2bbl carb and at best got about 14-15 mpg on the highway and probably spewed out horrendous amount of HC's... Put an "illegal" EFI system on it and am getting 27 mpg highway. Yet rather than "thanking" me, the law would actually punish me.
Yea it is pretty dumb. I think it is stupid for example in California it is illegal to put a 4.8 or a 5.3 LS in place of a CAR engine. They would literally rather let some old carbureted engine getting 15 mpg, belching HC, NOx, CO and CO2 out of it run down the road then let someone upgrade to a leaner, cleaner burning engine.
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:10 PM   #34
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Re: Emissions

Maybe they think if you don't set the engine up properly it'll belch out too much smog or something...

But if that was the case, it'd be running so poorly that the performance would be suffering tremendously and the owner wouldn't be satsified with it to drive it around like that. So ultimately that hypothetical problem would be self-correcting.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:11 PM   #35
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Re: Emissions

I never understood it myself. My old G20 in closed loop with the cats hot at light loads ran cleaner than a 2006 Honda Civic with the ULEV certification tested on the same dyno. At the time the emissions station could not read a CAN databus and reverted the Civic to the IM240 dyno test. The old 1983 G20 ran cleaner in EVERY way and blew the minds of a couple of my coworkers!!! Back in 2006 I wrote code for the 7247 PCM I was running and was in Wideband closed loop in under 30 seconds on a 15F cold start!!! It would idle stone cold at 13.0:1 afr and taper down to 14.1:1 by the time the coolant hit 100F. 14.1 is stoich for E10, so much for trying to lean out the system by a fuel that runs leaner on the OEM system. That is the FIRST change I make on any setup running the crappy E10 fuel. Compared to a Q-Jet it had to have been MUCH cleaner. Keep in mind this engine had a 214/220 @ .050 cam cut on an emissions friendly 114 LSA and Vortec heads with NO EGR. The valve, solenoid and plumbing were all intact but it was disabled in the tune and the EGR port on the back of the manifold was plugged. It might have even run cleaner with air injection into the cats and definately would have run cleaner if it had something like a L98 or LT1 cam in it. If memeory serves me correctly low speed was 2nd gear and high speed 3rd gear at about the same RPM. 1,100-1,300 rpm where load and cam overlap should have made the engine run dirtiest.!!! Running 70-75 mph with the cruise set this engine would get 20-22 mpg pulling a box of a G-van running at 1,700 rpm and 16:1 afr. In town with a lead foot I could still get 15 mpg. I later used the VATS frequency input that is typically unused on the 7427 to input a flex fuel sensor and ran a 10.5:1 383 on E85. With some code changes the 7427 can be very fun to play with.


Last edited by Fast355; 09-22-2017 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:59 PM   #36
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Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

The bellows i got from ebay. you can get pretty much anything from there. I would say 75% of what I have gotten is from there, the other 20% amazon.
5% from autozone and the parts stores are the worst. Today i need an air filter for that 99 truck air box. The keyboard king asks "what kind of car?".
"its a 95 silverado but has a 89 TPI 5.7 intake with a 99 5.3 air box" and that just blows their mind, they cant handle it for some reason, its like BSOD for them. "just look it up for a 99 5.3 please".
"but you said you have a 95 truck".
"just look it up for a 99 dude".
"but why did you say 95".
"man really"
RIP autozone employee
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:17 AM   #37
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Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro View Post
The bellows i got from ebay. you can get pretty much anything from there. I would say 75% of what I have gotten is from there, the other 20% amazon.
5% from autozone and the parts stores are the worst. Today i need an air filter for that 99 truck air box. The keyboard king asks "what kind of car?".
"its a 95 silverado but has a 89 TPI 5.7 intake with a 99 5.3 air box" and that just blows their mind, they cant handle it for some reason, its like BSOD for them. "just look it up for a 99 5.3 please".
"but you said you have a 95 truck".
"just look it up for a 99 dude".
"but why did you say 95".
"man really"
RIP autozone employee
I love blowing their mind too. I am a Nissan parts guy. No listing at Autozone for an air filter much less K&N filters for my 2011 M56S in their system. My Infiniti uses 2 normal old Nissan filters. I had the guy at Autozone confused as to why I wanted TWO K&N filters for a 1995 300ZX, LOL!!!!!! Also asking the Mobil One oil filter number for a Nissan Titan had him super confused. He was like "I already looked it up and there is not a listing for your car. Damn near had an argument with him until the manager intervened. I was like, I work for the dealer! It is a factory hot-rodded Titan truck engine with a fancy intake manifold and dual intake setup stuffed into a car. Nissan did not re-invent the wheel with the service parts they used. He was so lost and the twin air intake and filter idea was more than he could comprehend much less the fact it took a truck oil filter.


Last edited by Fast355; 09-23-2017 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:38 AM   #38
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 738
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
I love blowing their mind too. I am a Nissan parts guy. No listing at Autozone for an air filter much less K&N filters for my 2011 M56S in their system. My Infiniti uses 2 normal old Nissan filters. I had the guy at Autozone confused as to why I wanted TWO K&N filters for a 1995 300ZX, LOL!!!!!! Also asking the Mobil One oil filter number for a Nissan Titan had him super confused. He was like "I already looked it up and there is not a listing for your car. Damn near had an argument with him until the manager intervened. I was like, I work for the dealer! It is a factory hot-rodded Titan truck engine with a fancy intake manifold and dual intake setup stuffed into a car. Nissan did not re-invent the wheel with the service parts they used. He was so lost and the twin air intake and filter idea was more than he could comprehend much less the fact it took a truck oil filter.
That sounds like fun
Saturday at autozone, to take a look at batteries. An employee - "you should convert from side terminal to top post, i do car audio stuff, i should know".
Yes, ok, you should know i trust you, mr parts man.
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Old 10-05-2017, 08:16 PM   #39
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Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
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Re: Emissions

I ran across this post. It might give you some ideas.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...-overflow.html
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Old 10-06-2017, 06:49 PM   #40
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Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
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Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

Cool idea thanks.
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