Emissions - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards


TPI Tuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Emissions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-12-2017, 09:56 PM   #1
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Emissions

The punks at the station said the little filter at the front wont cut it with 4 emissions controlled areas in my state, and that i need to satisfy their requirement and then come back:
https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/vi/airIntake.htm

What it sounds like from the website is that I need the factory stuff from the truck (TBI and heat tube from the header, and theres no way Im putting all of the TBI stuff back on), or a CARB approved air intake. So something like a thirdgen camaro intake (which wouldnt fit anyway) wouldnt be approved. It would have to be original factory stuff, or approved aftermarket with a CARB label.

If anyone has any ideas let me know please. It seems like most of everything TPI thirdgen has been discontinued. Any most of the stuff on ebay is offroad custom junk.

Although this may work, if the bend doesnt hit the radiator, but the hose is in the way
http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-94-95-96-...item567de9f94d
http://www.speedshopstore.com/k-and-...-5-7l-kit.html
Attached Thumbnails
Emissions-img_0523.jpg  
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 02:31 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
NoEmissions84TA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Meriden, CT 06450
Posts: 830
Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3400 stall
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 4.10 Auburn Posi

Re: Emissions

Is it required in Texas that the hood must be opened?

Edit: I read the link. Visual inspection required.
If your vehicle came equipped with a TAC system and if it was removed and replaced with an open-type design air filter/intake assembly, the vehicle will fail the visual emissions component inspection.

You're screwed unless you can find something CARB approved.

Last edited by NoEmissions84TA; 08-13-2017 at 02:35 AM.
NoEmissions84TA is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 02:53 PM   #3
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

Thanks
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 06:16 PM   #4
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
DENN_SHAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: houston
Posts: 2,262
Car: 83 POS monte carlo
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.42


Re: Emissions

that motor didn't come with the HOT air system, so you don't need it, but unfortunately that filter won't cut it because that motor did intake fresh cold air. you need something similar to the factory thirdgen filter box with the hose from the throttle body to the filter housing.
this is what i have on my car, it passed just fine years ago when i got my state inspection license. by pass just fine, i mean the instructors who give the classes & the tests where i took the classes & the tests looked it over and said it was fine. including having true dual exhaust and dual cats as the motor i used had dual cats from the factory.
my air box is out of position, the hose i was using got damaged the last time i had it out. also the box not from a thirdgen, seems like i got it off a 97 or newer S10 blazer. the big thing is getting the air box so the filter is pulling air from the front side of the core support.
one thing, you may need to either remove your fan shroud, or cut it down. im guessing you have electric fans on already so it should be a problem.
edit, i just noticed it looks like you put an older motor/system in a newer vehicle, that can be a
big problem.
Attached Thumbnails
Emissions-img_5193.jpg   Emissions-img_5194.jpg  

Last edited by DENN_SHAH; 08-13-2017 at 06:30 PM.
DENN_SHAH is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 06:42 PM   #5
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

I just have the filter there as temporary. Its not there long term, until i find a better solution.
What is the big problem? Is it not legal to put a 92 intake on a 95 motor?
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 08:15 PM   #6
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
DENN_SHAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: houston
Posts: 2,262
Car: 83 POS monte carlo
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.42


Re: Emissions

its mainly the vehicle, but no it isn't, if you used like a 95 fourthgen or later motor/system, then its ok according to federal regulations. legally you can swap a newer motor/system into an older vehicle, but not an older system/motor into a newer vehicle.
with what you got, your in an area where it depends on the guys checking it & how sharp/strict they are. since they said the air filter, im thinking that if you can, from the throttle body forward get it like mine is but have the inlet side of filter box so its actually against the core suppost & pulling air from the front side & see what they say. been a while since i was last under the hood of a pickup, but it seems like the core support is open behind the headlights like mine is.

if you used just the TPI intake & not the TPI motor or at least the TPI cam, your're missing a fair amount of performance, & some fuel milage too.
i did a TPI short block in a friends TBI subruban a number of years back & it worked out really good.
i 100% believe chevy should have at the minimum offered at least the 305 TPI in the pickups starting in 88. but then i guess they couldn't have sold the 454 pickups cause the TPI 305 would have out performed the big block.
Attached Thumbnails
Emissions-img_5195.jpg  

Last edited by DENN_SHAH; 08-13-2017 at 08:18 PM.
DENN_SHAH is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 08:25 PM   #7
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

this engine is 185k and will have to be replaced with a crate soon anyway and i wanted to get the intake piece out of the way, just to see if it would work with the accessories, wiring, computer, etc. And it appears it does.

I have been searching all day and I guess Im just going to have to go with the links i provided at the top. The heat riser tube is an issue and that website doesnt say anything about carrying over factory OEM components from any other vehicle (an S10, or firebird for example). It only says if the heat riser tube isnt available, than a CARB exempt device must be present. So i suppose my only option is something like that K&n.
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 08:50 PM   #8
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
DENN_SHAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: houston
Posts: 2,262
Car: 83 POS monte carlo
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.42


Re: Emissions

the TPI system didn't come with HOT air so you should be ok there, unless it has the place for the hose to hookup on the exhaust.
if you have to, maybe just route some of the heat riser hose from the manifold up to the front side of the air box & put a fitting for it on? if you do that, make sure the HOT air tube is on the front/dirty side of the air filter.

i would try a wreaking yard for the air box & intake hose.
the 90 i have on mine is a cheap chrome piece from some cold air intake kit one of the guys where i use to work got for his car but didn't need.

i almost forgot about this, to start with when i first got the TPI installed in my car i used some PVC pipe & a PVC 90 for a little while. it won't last long as the heat deforms the PVC, but it may get you by, and its cheap. sand it & hit it with some flat black paint and give it a try.
DENN_SHAH is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 09:27 PM   #9
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

The heat riser tube is on the passenger side header (standard for TBI trucks), and of course the TPI\LT1 intake way up front. So with that distance seems not possible.
What type of fans are those do you have?
Mine are flex a lite and stick out 4.5 inches. If Ls1 fans dont come out that much then i might pick up some of those so i get more room in front.
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 10:50 PM   #10
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
DENN_SHAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: houston
Posts: 2,262
Car: 83 POS monte carlo
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.42


Re: Emissions

right now i have 3 fans on my car, 1 on the backside & 2 in front of the condenser.
im not sure what the fan on the back side is, it and a couple others were in a trailer my brother picked up to haul a load when he was a truck driver. they delivered parts to both ford & GM factories.
i have another fan from a thirdgen for the back, i had to pull it off so the intake hose would fit.
the front 2 are cheap parts house fans, possibly flex lites i got back around 1990 to help the A/C cool better at idle. 1 is 14 inches, the other is 16. back then they worked only when the compressor was on & the torque converter was off. all are controlled by the ECM now.
the back one could be closer to the radiator, but my mounting of the radiator isn't the best & it moves front to back, so it needs some room.

you can do like i did & move your battery over to the left fender & put the air box where the battery is now. unless they changed it, nothing says how long the heat riser hose can be, just that it has to be there & hooked up.
so, get a couple hoses & connnect them together & then see what they say.
Attached Thumbnails
Emissions-img_5225.jpg   Emissions-img_5226.jpg   Emissions-img_5227.jpg   Emissions-img_5228.jpg  
DENN_SHAH is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 10:52 PM   #11
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
DENN_SHAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: houston
Posts: 2,262
Car: 83 POS monte carlo
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.42


Re: Emissions

the 11oz can of WD40 was the only thing i had handy for a point of reference.

i been out of auto repair for a few years now, does your truck need to be put on a dyno for the emissions test?

Last edited by DENN_SHAH; 08-14-2017 at 10:57 PM.
DENN_SHAH is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2017, 11:57 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
NoEmissions84TA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Meriden, CT 06450
Posts: 830
Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3400 stall
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 4.10 Auburn Posi

Re: Emissions

You should only need to satisfy the letter of the law. In other words, like DENN_SHAH said, nothing says how long the heat riser hose can be, just that it has to be there & hooked up. So you could probably get away with something like this:
Attached Thumbnails
Emissions-header-heat-stove.jpg   Emissions-heat-stove-pipe.jpg   Emissions-dsc03924small.jpg  
Attached Images
  
NoEmissions84TA is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2017, 09:50 PM   #13
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoEmissions84TA View Post
You should only need to satisfy the letter of the law. In other words, like DENN_SHAH said, nothing says how long the heat riser hose can be, just that it has to be there & hooked up. So you could probably get away with something like this:
Right, but how are you going to hook up a heater hose into an LT1 throttle body lol
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2017, 10:13 PM   #14
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DENN_SHAH View Post
the 11oz can of WD40 was the only thing i had handy for a point of reference.

i been out of auto repair for a few years now, does your truck need to be put on a dyno for the emissions test?
If I remember, the law says 25 years and older do not need to be tested. And even tho its a 95, it has a manufacture date of 94. So if I recall, 1994+25 years, December of 2019 would be the first year I no longer need a dyno. So this and next year I still need it.
But either way, I passed the dyno last year with flying colors. The inspectors were actually kind of amazed that a 95 model truck with 175k on it had such low NO and CO2 readings. So im not worried about the dyno. Its just the visual.
Check out what this guy has tho:
I think thats the firebird elbow coming off the TB?
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2017, 08:40 AM   #15
Sponsor
iTrader: (77)
 
Tuned Performance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mile High Country !!!
Posts: 8,351
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt


Re: Emissions

You can use the firebird elbow. I have seen pictures of it piped to 00+ truck air filter box. Getting air from the fender inlet.
The round filter box is what I'm referring to.
This might work.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/99-07-GMC-CHEV...%257Ciid%253A9
http://m.ebay.com/itm/SUBURBAN-Air-I...%257Ciid%253A9
Two different styles the tbi vortec might be the answer.

Last edited by Tuned Performance; 08-16-2017 at 08:48 AM.
Tuned Performance is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2017, 09:24 PM   #16
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
DENN_SHAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: houston
Posts: 2,262
Car: 83 POS monte carlo
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.42


Re: Emissions

that is a really nice truck in the vid. it looks like its from a firebird to me.
yeah, its 25 years & your done with tail pipe emissions, but you still have the visual part.
the HOT air tube goes in front of the dirty side of the air filter.
a fitting of about the right size PVC pipe, about 1.5~2 inches glued in to a hole on the air box should work.
i forgot there are holes in the inner fenders for the cold air intake on the pickups. the HOT air hose ran into the bellows between the filter housing & the fender should be good.
once you get it inspected, you can make it look good under the hood & save the stuff for next year.
DENN_SHAH is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2017, 11:11 PM   #17
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance View Post
You can use the firebird elbow. I have seen pictures of it piped to 00+ truck air filter box. Getting air from the fender inlet.
The round filter box is what I'm referring to.
This might work.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/99-07-GMC-CHEV...%257Ciid%253A9
http://m.ebay.com/itm/SUBURBAN-Air-I...%257Ciid%253A9
Two different styles the tbi vortec might be the answer.
Good idea with the NBS vortec truck box if the tube fits the firebird. Or close enough to modify.
This would require relocating the battery over to the drivers side, which people do and there are instructions for with no problem (but sucks because its opposite of where the starter is).
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2017, 11:22 PM   #18
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DENN_SHAH View Post
that is a really nice truck in the vid. it looks like its from a firebird to me.
yeah, its 25 years & your done with tail pipe emissions, but you still have the visual part.
the HOT air tube goes in front of the dirty side of the air filter.
a fitting of about the right size PVC pipe, about 1.5~2 inches glued in to a hole on the air box should work.
i forgot there are holes in the inner fenders for the cold air intake on the pickups. the HOT air hose ran into the bellows between the filter housing & the fender should be good.
once you get it inspected, you can make it look good under the hood & save the stuff for next year.
It looks like that the firebird elbow is not going to be long enough to reach a NBS truck air box, so a tube is going to have to probably be fabricated. I suppose I could make something in the middle, and then drill a hole down below and run the damn air tube into it.

I think instead of using hot tubes, for the TPI, GM went with radiator fluid. People do the coolant bypass mod if they live in the south and ask why GM did it (and assume it was because to keep the TB from freezing it up). I think it was probably for the same reason they added those damn air tubes off the manifolds for the TBIs. To inject hot air into the TB for emissions. The Texas DOT government website says so. Its for emissions, and OBD2 vehicles are smart enough to where they dont need to have hot air injected into the intake lol
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2017, 08:38 PM   #19
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
DENN_SHAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: houston
Posts: 2,262
Car: 83 POS monte carlo
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.42


Re: Emissions

the elbow doesn't need to reach the filter housing, it just needs to make the turn and clear everything. you can use some PVC pipe to get to the air box.

the HOT air did help some with throttle blades freezing at startup, but that was not its main reason being there. you can still have it happen even with the motor warmed up.

you do not introduce the HOT air between the air filter & motor. it always goes in front of the air filter, on the dirty side.
the HOT air is only used when the motor is cold to help the fuel atomize better.
there are a few reasons why the newer systems don't have it.
one is they have better fuel control, also higher fuel pressure helps atomization along with the fuel being injected closer to the cylinder, and in more & more cases injected right into the combustion chamber under compression.
DENN_SHAH is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM   #20
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

The elbow is in today. It wraps around so much nicer than the 1LE. But it hits the flex fans.
Attached Thumbnails
Emissions-img_0524.jpg   Emissions-img_0526.jpg  
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:18 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
NoEmissions84TA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Meriden, CT 06450
Posts: 830
Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3400 stall
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 4.10 Auburn Posi

Re: Emissions

It looks like you can cut off as much as necessary at the throttle body.
NoEmissions84TA is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:42 PM   #22
Pro
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 602
Car: 1992 Z28, 1995 silverado
Engine: 5.7 TPI, 5.7 TBI to TPI
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e
Axle/Gears: G80 3.23, 3.42


Re: Emissions

Thats true. Ill give that a shot. But theres no point until I can at least get it running lol. I still cant figure out why it wont start.
Pro is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Reply


Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards >

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

1982 Camaro '82 || 1983 Camaro '83 || 1984 Camaro '84 || 1985 Camaro '85 || 1986 Camaro '86 || 1987 Camaro '87 || 1988 Camaro '88 || 1989 Camaro '89 || 1990 Camaro '90 || 1991 Camaro '91 || 1992 Camaro '92


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM.


All content copyright 1997 - 2014 ThirdGen.org. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced without the expressed, documented, and written consent of ThirdGen.org's Administrators.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: