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In my 1986 Camaro IROC Z is the LB9. I may be able to score a short block 350 from a 1989 K5 Blazer for $100. I do plan on having the block machined and the crank polished. I also planing on buying a rebuild kit for the motor. To keep this build as a cheap as possible could I use my 305 TPI heads? Would purchasing Summit Racing dished pistons and a thicker Fel Pro gasket work to keep compression down to prevent pinging?
I'm not looking to build a race engine. I'm just looking to build a stock replacement engine for now. I believe the Blazers had roller cams. Is there a good cheap cam I should use? If the engine is roller cam, I believe I have to change rockers anyway. Would a mild rocker upgrade help too?
Not sure if the 305 heads would work, but if you're getting a 350 block why not try and find some 350 vortec heads? They're pretty common in pick-n-pull yards....
The 081 heads are better than the 350 heads that came on TBI engines. We had a 350 with 081s and mild cam that ran pretty good once. Your stock K5 engine will not have a roller cam, Use something under 460 lift with 200-215@50 duration and you should be fine like maybe Summit K1103-K1104. Yes a lil thicker gasket will help.
You're talking about rebuilding an engine and the goal is cheap. These things really don't go well together. I mean every car enthusiast builds one engine like that at some point, usually the first one, but once you pull it off, you'll hate that you ever wasted the money making compromises to end up spending more than you planned on something you really dont like.
You can buy a NEW 350 long block right from GM over at summit racing for about $2000. You will spend nearly that much rebuilding or "freshening up" a second hand used engine. One way you get all new parts assembled by GM, within weeks of placing your order... The other way, 4 months later, you get thrift store crap machined by Big Cletus, assembled by Lil Cletus, and oh yeah we lost your oil filter adapter, and gave you the wrong gasket set and flywheel...
In my 1986 Camaro IROC Z is the LB9. I may be able to score a short block 350 from a 1989 K5 Blazer for $100. I do plan on having the block machined and the crank polished. I also planing on buying a rebuild kit for the motor. To keep this build as a cheap as possible could I use my 305 TPI heads? Would purchasing Summit Racing dished pistons and a thicker Fel Pro gasket work to keep compression down to prevent pinging?
I'm not looking to build a race engine. I'm just looking to build a stock replacement engine for now. I believe the Blazers had roller cams. Is there a good cheap cam I should use? If the engine is roller cam, I believe I have to change rockers anyway. Would a mild rocker upgrade help too?
All of ^^^^ this sounds like a really bad idea; building an engine, even a "stock" engine, is no place to cut corners or look for the cheap way out. I hate to see beginners throw their money away.
Save your $$$ until you can either buy a pro-built long block or complete engine, or at least all-new, high-quality, compatible engine components if you intend to build your own engine.
You're talking about rebuilding an engine and the goal is cheap. These things really don't go well together. I mean every car enthusiast builds one engine like that at some point, usually the first one, but once you pull it off, you'll hate that you ever wasted the money making compromises to end up spending more than you planned on something you really dont like.
This. ....even the part about all of us having done it! THIS^^^
The 081 heads are better than the 350 heads that came on TBI engines. We had a 350 with 081s and mild cam that ran pretty good once. Your stock K5 engine will not have a roller cam, Use something under 460 lift with 200-215@50 duration and you should be fine like maybe Summit K1103-K1104. Yes a lil thicker gasket will help.
I prefer a Flat Tappet cam since they are cheaper. I was looking at both those summit racing cams. I may also be able to score an L98 engine and I was considering using that same came.
You're talking about rebuilding an engine and the goal is cheap. These things really don't go well together. I mean every car enthusiast builds one engine like that at some point, usually the first one, but once you pull it off, you'll hate that you ever wasted the money making compromises to end up spending more than you planned on something you really don't like.
You can buy a NEW 350 long block right from GM over at summit racing for about $2000. You will spend nearly that much rebuilding or "freshening up" a second hand used engine. One way you get all new parts assembled by GM, within weeks of placing your order... The other way, 4 months later, you get thrift store crap machined by Big Cletus, assembled by Lil Cletus, and oh yeah we lost your oil filter adapter, and gave you the wrong gasket set and flywheel...
I have a buddy of mine who is a Chevy Line tech and he built a TBI 350 for his C10 for around $800 to replace the 305 it came with. That included taking the block to a machinist. This was back in 2011 so prices have gone up. The machine shop he went is very reputable, they are actually an old school speed shop/machine shop that builds drag racing and stock car engines. He did the gaskets himself. My Camaro I've already had my transmission rebuilt and the transmission shop recommends clients to the same machine shop and vice versa.
My main reason for doing this is, I wanted to take my time and learn more about engines. I wasn't going to rush to do this and try to assemble an engine in a weekend but slowly over several months. My other plans for heads are Summit Racing's own brand of Iron Heads or I might be able to purchase an L98 from an 86 Corvette.
I'll consider buying a crate engine. I did looking to that L31 crate engine and that may be a great option for the future.
I have a buddy of mine who is a Chevy Line tech and he built a TBI 350 for his C10 for around $800 to replace the 305 it came with.
I wouldn't bet on the accuracy of that story. Not to say that someone is being less than honest with you, more that people like to minimize the expense of things they've done for a variety of reasons. It's a lot more common for friends to say "I got a deal, and it's great" than it is for someone to say "I wasted a bunch of money, and I'm embarrassed to admit it".
Seems like we're going around in circles. I can tell you what I've experienced dealing with machine shops and how the bill invariably explodes, and issues that can pop up. Someone else may gloss over the pitfalls, and focus on being happy with how they spent their money. Ultimately I'm not going to go too far out of my way to stop you from making a mistake. I've given you fair warning of what's ahead in the direction you're looking to travel, it's up to you to calculate that advice into your decision making process, or discount it as a horror story meant to mislead you.
My main reason for doing this is, I wanted to take my time and learn more about engines. I wasn't going to rush to do this and try to assemble an engine in a weekend but slowly over several months. My other plans for heads are Summit Racing's own brand of Iron Heads or I might be able to purchase an L98 from an 86 Corvette.
That's all that needs to be said. You are investing in your own knowledge and feeling of accomplishment. The 305 Heads will work fine. Smaller combustion chamber will require running high octane gas (unless you address your compression ration with piston dish), the smaller valves will hurt performance a little - depending on what 350 heads you compare them too.
I toasted a 305 bottom end back when I was young, got a cheap 350 block from a friend needing a .030" bore, purchased a crank kit from the parts store I worked at (forget what brand), had my rods checked and re-used them , bought pistons from summit, SLP cam, switch to SLP runners, headers, new water pump, oil pump, did some dress up and painting and so on... re-used everything else and it was running for under $2500 . I am sure some prices have went up since then. When I was finished, hooked up to a rebuilt 700R4 (Higher stall converter/B&M Shift Kit) out to a 2.77 rear... I could run with LT1s of the day.
Was that a great accomplishment? At the time saying your 86 305TPI auto can stay fender to fender with a stock LT1 6-speed w/3.42 rear was an achievement. Neither is considered very fast now. Had an old timer in my town let me use his shop and guide me as I assembled the engine. Great guy, learned a lot, had a sense of accomplishment, and the car was faster. I wouldn't do this again, too cheap to buy a quality long block these days but I am glad I did it once. Plus as mentioned above, this build did leave a lot on the table. A set of AFR heads probably would have uncorked power and torque across the board. And other items would hav been great to upgrade too.
Wonder when the LS swap guys will show up?
That L98 sounds like an attractive option. Why not buy it and build it?
rebuilding ur engine to keep it numbers matching is something that's happening more and more as these cars have become more desireable in the collectors markets... although its marginally.
a simple rebuild kit on ebay for like 500 bucks or so should be all u need... u can make a few minor upgrades to increase the horsepower but especially on the 5.0 its hardly worth it but if u got the engine apart putting back a "step above" stock parts would make the engine a little more reliable and give it a little more get up and go.
in 1991-92 the LB9 does not fall behind the 350 by very much. I think the difference is only like 20HP so a lot of ppl build up their older engine to closer mimic the new LB9's.
Amazing that in 2019 people can still convince themselves that the 305 is almost as good as a 350. I get where you're coming from, but you have to throw out some pretty serious conditions to make the argument. When it comes to 'budget', you know, the topic of this thread, it costs MORE to rebuild a 305, and you get LESS for the money. Justify it however you like, do whatever you like, but don't expect everyone to go along with your flawed logic.
Amazing that in 2019 people can still convince themselves that the 305 is almost as good as a 350. I get where you're coming from, but you have to throw out some pretty serious conditions to make the argument. When it comes to 'budget', you know, the topic of this thread, it costs MORE to rebuild a 305, and you get LESS for the money. Justify it however you like, do whatever you like, but don't expect everyone to go along with your flawed logic.
the 350 in 1992 has a mear 15 more Hp and about 40 lbs of torque more then the 305 so not being "as good" is a moot point as with those puny numbers u can't pass a civic most days.. .best bet is to buy a fast burn 350 or something like that but when It comes to keeping it stock for numbers matching.. taking ur older LB9 and making closer to a 92 LB9 accomplishes that goal... these cars are NOT fast and are more of soft spot for car enthusiasts as those of us who grew up with these cars are now old enuf to collect them so to speak.
It's not about just being 'fast'. It literally costs MORE for 305 rebuild parts than the same parts for a 350. The machine work costs exactly the same. You can buy a NEW Vortec 350 from GM for just a hair over $2,000. If you rebuild a 305, meaning really rebuild it, with new pistons, reconditioned rods, and a balanced rotating assembly, go through the heads, mill surfaces true, etc you're going to be lucky to get past parts and labor for less than that new 350.
Now to address the other part, keeping a car numbers matching... Most people don't know where to look. The 'matching' number is on the block's head surface. You mill that 305 block and the numbers are gone. A person could further make an argument that if the engine needs rebuilt, the car is probably so far outside of the parameters of being a collectible car that's going to bring extra money by being 'numbers matching' that it's irrelevant anyway.
The best 305 in the world, is still just a 305. It's never going to be more than just a 305. Unless you enjoy explaining why you didn't get a 350, every time the topic comes up, or you're one of those people that enjoys making excuses for your 305, seriously consider following the commonly accepted logic. You can make excuses all day about how the 350 isn't THAT MUCH better, but it's still better.
the 350 and the 305 are **** engines power wise and the TBI is actually the more reliable.. to get there and say one is better then other one is like saying one pile of crap is better then the other.. these cars are slow as slow can be. the more power the 350 makes is almost non existent by 92'.
my point is for the people who want to keep their car stock.. an engine rebuild also doesn't mean the car is crap.. maybe they are restoring one, blew a rod.. who knows.
and it does not cost more for 305 parts if u have the tpi so im not sure where thats coming from. you keep saying that since alot of the cost are around the same its just as well to get a 350... why?... the 350 slow as **** as well and by 92 is 1 second or so faster then the 305..
if u wanna argue the benefits of a crate engine ZZ4 or something like that then u may have an argument. Granted the stock 350 cars still hold higher value then the 305 but if u swap out a 305 car with a 350 it actually hurts it value as the engine code is in the V.I.N and turns away some buyers.
end of the day if a person wants to put lipstick on a 350 pig or a 305 pig.. who cares.. its their car.. my argument is in the car's value depreciates with the 350 swaps and there is nothing wrong with upgrading ur 305 to be more reliable and long lasting... same can be said for rebuilding 350's.. rebuild them all they want and they still can't pass a v6 charger...
people don't buy these cars for speed.. they buy them for nostalgia or just love of the generation... so people gotta stop with the "get the 350" talk unless they mean a crate 350 bc any other is just foolish.
The 350 Chevy might be the single most frequently built engine of the last several decades. Only fools rebuild 305s. The parts are virtually identical, except one outsells the other exponentially. By supply and demand, which do you suppose is more common, thus less expensive?
You're not going to hurt the value of a collectible car that needs it's 305 rebuilt by replacing it with a 350. At least not if the 350 is of equal vintage or newer. Truth told, the cars that are actually bringing better than typical used car money, generally aren't the cars with 140K miles, that up until a few weeks ago needed a rebuild because of a spun rod bearing. The only thirdgens bringing top dollar have zero cosmetic wear, much less enough mileage to need a rebuild. If the thing has been used enough to wear out an engine, it's probably not going to bring top dollar. Start talking about a thirdgen thats been restored, a properly documented, quality 350 swap is as likely to add value as detract from it.
We're not even remotely close to a point where the original rebuilt 305 adds anything to a restoration. It's beyond asinine to even make such a bold suggestion.
$50 more for entry level, stock replacement stuff. Get into the options, and 350 parts are virtually unlimited. Meanwhile, hardly anything is offered for the 305 that is better than stock. It's practically limited to only what it can use that's offered for the 350.
The 350 leaves room for improvement. The 305 is nearly as good as it'll ever get.
Your arguments are as tired as a worn out 305 in need of a rebuild. The only fools that stand by your arguments are those who are married to their 305s. Seriously, where are the people that defend their 'almost as good as' 283, 327, 267, 307, engines? 305 derangement syndrome is a real thing.
I'll light a candle for your poor pathetic misguided soul.
Personal attacks aside. . Stop that btw ur 350 will never be much more then wat it is either.. marginal increases still leave u in second last place.. stop thinking ur 350 is more then wat it is... it's outdated. . Obsolete and as I said earlier wud lose to most 6 bangers..
Denial is a thing.
I don't deny 305's are *** and at this stage of the game I just want reliability and a little rubber burn from time to time.
Reality check sir.. ur car is a 5.7 but one of the slowest ones ever made
Last edited by goalieforlife; 07-03-2019 at 08:37 PM.
Personal attacks aside. . Stop that btw ur 350 will never be much more then wat it is either.. marginal increases still leave u in second last place.. stop thinking ur 350 is more then wat it is... it's outdated. . Obsolete and as I said earlier wud lose to most 6 bangers..
Denial is a thing.
I don't deny 305's are *** and at this stage of the game I just want reliability and a little rubber burn from time to time.
Reality check sir.. ur car is a 5.7 but one of the slowest ones ever made
So what you're saying, is that since you can't defend the 305 by it's own merits, now you're trying to change the discussion to how much the Gen-I 350 sucks? Got it. LOL
Stop pretending. You ain't burning shiz but gasoline with 205hp and 2.73 gears.
A 91 L98 is "one of the slowest" 350s ever made? As if there weren't a million smogger 350s built into granny geared pickups, overweight land yachts, and 170hp Corvettes during the 70's.
That's a bold strategy. Seriously, you've gone from foolish to ridiculous.
i was never defending the 305... i was defending the option to rebuild it... who cares if its 220hp or 240 they are lazy *** engines.. you think ur engine is actually fast.. im not the foolish one.
i was never defending the 305... i was defending the option to rebuild it... who cares if its 220hp or 240 they are lazy *** engines.. you think ur engine is actually fast.. im not the foolish one.
ur 91 formula can't catch a chevrolet cruze.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a thread about catching Chevrolet Cruzes.
I never said my car is fast. I never said anything about my car at all. You left that bait, and I ignored it because it's not on topic. I'm not defending anything. I'm explaining with plainly provided evidence, that it's foolish to rebuild a 305 in nearly any realistic scenario. If you'd like to post a counter point, then do so. If I post a counter to your points, feel free to post a retort. But you're getting so far from the OP's question, and anything that is remotely relevant to the thread, that it's pants-on-head retarded.
Attacking my car doesn't make a 305 any less 'ghey'. If you think attacking every Gen-I small block Chevy is going to win you many friends around here, you're in for a rude awakening.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a thread about catching Chevrolet Cruzes.
I never said my car is fast. I never said anything about my car at all. You left that bait, and I ignored it because it's not on topic. I'm not defending anything. I'm explaining with plainly provided evidence, that it's foolish to rebuild a 305 in nearly any realistic scenario. If you'd like to post a counter point, then do so. If I post a counter to your points, feel free to post a retort. But you're getting so far from the OP's question, and anything that is remotely relevant to the thread, that it's pants-on-head retarded.
Attacking my car doesn't make a 305 any less 'ghey'. If you think attacking every Gen-I small block Chevy is going to win you many friends around here, you're in for a rude awakening.
Happy Independance Day, Sport!
Lol .. I've been here a long time bud.. I'm just a realist.. ur stuck in the 90's
Most ppl here wud not resort to name calling.. so I guess I will take my "ghey" car and go home... although calling 305's ghey when alot of ppl here own them. Will make u even less friends.
I love 3rd Gens slow or not 305 or 350.. granted I'm more of a trans am guy then camaro but I love them all.. slow.. or slow .. 😂😂last place or 2nd last.
sorry for hijacking your thread op.. and for the guys who pm'd me.. thanks for the support and the heads up.... i should of known better then to feed the troll.. .good luck on ur build and keep us posted Vin.
Is it wrong that I find it funny there's possibly some shadowy underworld cabal of mutual 305 admirers? Or maybe it's a support group for fools that can't handle criticism, or are unable to participate in a discussion without altering the scope of debate and twisting from friendly discussion to outright attacking another member's car?
Maybe someone needs to go back and reread the thread with a fresh mind, and see where things went off track, and who turned a general conversation into absurdity.
The GM 94666492 as stated above is a good cam. I used it on my motor and like it. has a small lope at idle, and decent power. i started with a tbi motor out of a truck. it was a non roller motor. but everything was there. i had to drill a few spots and tap them and buy bolts. now its a roller using all the hardware from my 305.. it also had dished pistons .040 over and was stroked.. i reused the tbi heads it had {swirl port} and they are junk. make great low end and can burn the tires off for days, just no top end at all and is kind of lacking in the mid range power. i have my 081 heads i pulled apart and i am porting them and cleaning them up, then they are going on for the compression bump.
Is it wrong that I find it funny there's possibly some shadowy underworld cabal of mutual 305 admirers? Or maybe it's a support group for fools that can't handle criticism, or are unable to participate in a discussion without altering the scope of debate and twisting from friendly discussion to outright attacking another member's car?
Maybe someone needs to go back and reread the thread with a fresh mind, and see where things went off track, and who turned a general conversation into absurdity.
$50 more for entry level, stock replacement stuff. Get into the options, and 350 parts are virtually unlimited. Meanwhile, hardly anything is offered for the 305 that is better than stock. It's practically limited to only what it can use that's offered for the 350.
The 350 leaves room for improvement. The 305 is nearly as good as it'll ever get.
Your arguments are as tired as a worn out 305 in need of a rebuild. The only fools that stand by your arguments are those who are married to their 305s. Seriously, where are the people that defend their 'almost as good as' 283, 327, 267, 307, engines? 305 derangement syndrome is a real thing.
I'll light a candle for your poor pathetic misguided soul.
Rolling my eyes at that comment. Granted a 305 will never be a 350 just as much as a 350 will never be a 400 and a 400 will never be a 454 and a 454 will never be a 502 and a 502 will never be a 572...Catch my drift. That being said a 305 can certainly be vastly improved on and can make well over 400 hp actually closer to 500 hp in the 305 sprints. The 305 Vortec engines wiped the floor with the TPI engines power wise and the marine version was even stronger. Both had smaller cams than the L98 cam. I actually put 305 Vortec heads on a 305 TBI with the peanut roller cam and 1.6 roller rockers and a 454 TBI and still made 300 HP at the crank.
Rolling my eyes at that comment. Granted a 305 will never be a 350 just as much as a 350 will never be a 400 and a 400 will never be a 454 and a 454 will never be a 502 and a 502 will never be a 572...Catch my drift. That being said a 305 can certainly be vastly improved on and can make well over 400 hp actually closer to 500 hp in the 305 sprints. The 305 Vortec engines wiped the floor with the TPI engines power wise and the marine version was even stronger. Both had smaller cams than the L98 cam. I actually put 305 Vortec heads on a 305 TBI with the peanut roller cam and 1.6 roller rockers and a 454 TBI and still made 300 HP at the crank.
And which of those examples is less expensive than a similarly built 350? We're in a budget thread. It's in the title for heaven's sake. Where does a 572 fit the parameters of the discussion?
Never a good idea to put 305 heads on a 350 engine. This could cause a lot of clearance and compression issues not too mention that performance will not be gained but actually be hurt. Vortec has nothing to do with it. It is chamber size, valve size and runner volume and design. Just get a good set of aftermarket heads or 350 vortec heads but dont use 305 heads on anything bigger than a 305.
The only reason a fresh 305 with a cam in it is going in my car is because i got it real cheap while i build my 421 from a really good 400 small block i got for a real good steal of a price.That block is the one I'm putting the money into. was going to de- stroke it and go 377 but figured why go backwards. No replacement for displacement.
Never a good idea to put 305 heads on a 350 engine. This could cause a lot of clearance and compression issues not too mention that performance will not be gained but actually be hurt. Vortec has nothing to do with it. It is chamber size, valve size and runner volume and design. Just get a good set of aftermarket heads or 350 vortec heads but dont use 305 heads on anything bigger than a 305.
I STRONGLY DISAGREE! I used 14022601 heads with 1.84/1.50 valves and stock ports on a TBI 350 with a very mild 204/214 cam and made 330 hp and well over 400 ft/lbs of torque. The 305 heads flow about as well as any non Vortec head but the small chambers work well with the dished stock pistons. The compression does more than flow on mild setups. Flow builds top-end power, compression builds torque everywhere and under 5,500 rpm the smallish ports work very well even on a 350.
I totally agree with never going back in with a 305 if you have a choice to put a 350 back in the car. I've tried building a mild 305, it didn't run like it should have it was more of a letdown. Now 305 heads i have seen used on 350s and they run fine (for a budget style stock engine). We had a mild cammed 350 with 081s i would say it was strong as any stockish L98 and ran forever with Zero problems. A friend of mine had a cammed flat tappet 350 engine with 305 Vortecs and it was very strong in a S10. I guess I'm saying if I had my choice it would be a good roller 350 with good 350 heads like maybe some Vortecs or Trick Flows. But.. If I had my choice of a 305 or a 350 with 305 heads...I'd pick the 350 any day.
Never a good idea to put 305 heads on a 350 engine. This could cause a lot of clearance and compression issues not too mention that performance will not be gained but actually be hurt.
Pretty much false depending on the build. There is a level of Cam/Intake/Exhaust where this would be true. Not on a near stock build.
06-27-2019, 02:27 PM
