I have a chance to buy an 87 Firebird for less than $900. It has low miles, a 700R-4 auto trans and 2.73 gears. It has a 305 TPI (LB9)... 190HP, right? 295 lb/ft of torque?

My questions are:
What kind of times will it run stock?
What kind of times will it run with intake/exhaust?
What kind of times will it run with other bolt-ons(no internals)?
What kind of times will it run with a different cam/heads?
Is it worth messing with a 305, or should I just hold out for a 350 TPI car?

I suppose I'd be happy with mid to low 14's, but I'm really looking for 13's.

I'm not really hurting for a car right now. I just happened to come across this one and it seems lke a fun project, but if I can't get good numbers out of it I'm not interested.

Thanks in advance.

 

I really depends what u want out of this car overall. For $900 it can't be in that good of condition. If u only want the car for speed and don't mind building/fixing all the things that are probably wrong with this car then you'd probably be swaping engines anyway. The 305 TPI Auto's with 2.73's are the slowest of all the TPI engines/combinations along with the Firebird's restrictive intake that takes some power off of those HP and TQ #'s u mentioned. 1 of these cars in good running condition would be in like the mid 15's, maybe slower. IMO, if u don't want to do lots of work to make this car fast I'd say just wait for something better. The 350 TPI with G92 is the fastest combination u can find, then comes the 305 TPI 5-Speed G92. U should probably keep looking for 1 of them. If this is gonna be your project car, u have a nice amount of work to do to get this car into the 13's. Mid to low 14's will take some too. The 2 cars I mentioned already run low-mid 14's stock, the 350 being around low 14's and the 305 being around mid 14's give or take depending.

 

You'd be sinking a lot of money into it to make it fast.... but, if it's only $900, you could easily drop a 350 in there and still have money left over for a burger.

Jon

 

Yeah.

 

Well judging from what you guys have told me, I think I'll hold off until I find a 350 car. I had a 79 Camaro with a late model 305, and it was slow as ****. It ran high 15's. It was embarrassing to have a car with a 5.0 that oly ran those times. ****, my Stealth runs low 14's, and it's an almost stock non-turbo.

Did they make a 350 w/ a 5spd? I'm much more comfortable with a 5spd than an automatic. If it comes down to either a 305 with a 5spd or a 350 with an automatic, it'll be a tough choice for me. I may end up getting the "underdog" 305 with the 5spd just soI can have a 5spd... then try to work around the HP difference. My 69 Valiant is an automatic, and I never drive it. I haven't even taken it to the strip because I hate driving it.

 

If you don't like the 305 and want manual trans, these are your options, as I see it

find an L98 and live with the auto

find an L98 and swap in a T56/tremec 3550/TKO

find an LB9 with T5, swap in a different engine and a T56/3550/TKO after the T5 breaks if you don't swap the tranny initially

find an LB9 auto, swap in a different engine and a T56/3550/TKO

Since you're swapping the engine anyway, though, you could save some money and find an LG4 or L03 (preferably stick--already set up for manual trans) and swap engines, trannies.

Realize though (and I'm sure you do, that if you are swapping eninges anyway, you are not restricted to the L98 (350 sbc with tpi) or to tpi at all.

 

I like carbureted motors better, but the main reason I want a TPI F-Body is for the challenge of getting performance out of such a "mild" engine. I think it would be nice to have one that could pull some good times and surprise an LS1 every once in a while, but still get good gas mileage. I have an article in Car Craft that spurred me to get one. They bought an 88 Formula 350 for $1500 and turned it into a project car.

I think I'll hold off until I find a 350 car, then swap in a T56 later on. I could use the 700R-4 in one of my RX7's (SBC conversions).
Thanks for the input.

By the way, what are some of you guys' real 1/4 times? What do these cars run in varying levels of mods? What kind of trap speeds and 60ft times?

 

The low RPM TQ of TPI doesn't feel mild. 330-345 ft.lbs stock, 60 ft. times are nice. The L98 is easy enough to get in the 13's with an auto. If u can shift it should be easier with an L98 with a swapped 5-Speed unless the 700R4 is modded. Put your money in a nice G92 L98 or LB9 5-Speed G92 if u are looking for those times without a LOT of work.

 

I agree i think the general consensus here is buy the 305, and pimp it up

 

If you want a 305 5-speed that's cool, just make sure to buy a 90-92, preferably G92. The 305's of those years had 230 HP as opposed to the 190HP.

 

I agree with 82resto!

 

What's a G92?

I found a 90 305 w/ a 5spd and low miles. It has T-Tops, though, and I wanted a headtop. I want the lightest platform possible, and I'm assuming the T-Top car is heavier. They want a little too much for this 90, but at least I know 5spd cars are out there.

So the 90-up 305 has 230HP? What about the 90-92 350 cars? The pre-90 350's have 235HP right?

I really don't need another huge project right now (I alrady have a few cars), so I'll probably hold out for a 350 car, but what kind of times could I expect out of a 9092 305 with a 5spd? How about with a K&N and an open exhaust with no cats? Like I said, it's a toss-up between the 5spd 305 and the 350. I hate automatics, but I could always build up the 700R-4 with a manual valve body and stall converter. That might be fun.

 

http://www.gtasourcepage.com/techspecs.html

All the specs for 87-92 all tpi engine and tranny combos available
Also tells you what gears fior what years, keep in mind these are 87-92 Trans Am GTA's, the creme of the crop.

 

Depends on how much you want to work on the thing (get in and go, or work to make it go).

 

The T-Top cars arent much, if any, heavier than the hard top. There are rumored to me more frame supports, but in all of the cars Ive owned, there were none noticable. Also, for $900, you cant really go wrong... heres why:

The 305 TPI isnt a bad motor, contrary to polular belief. I currently own one, and had a previous one. If you were to ditch that 2:73 and get 3:42's, or 3:73's, theres a major gain for you right there, for only about $500 bucks. Then you could put a set of headders and a cat back on for about $500, a shift kit for about $100 installed, and some other misc. bolt on's,
and for about $2000 or so, you have a low to mid 14 second car, possibly a little better!

I know Ill probably get flamed for this one, but Im just stating the possibilities and the facts, and that 305's arent all that bad. Yeah, ya could put a 350 in there, but why not work with what ya got for now, and save up to build a kick azz motor, while your havin fun with the 305.

Its up to you man, good luck!

 

My car here weighs 3520 with me(130lbs) and 1/4 tank of gas and full interior with power drivers seat.
It was a 5 speed 305 LG4 with Edelbrock Carb and Intake and had 16" GTA wheels. Ran a best of 14.94@91.67mph with stock exhaust.


I have nearly finished my carb to TPI swap. What a PITA. Still have some wiring issues to take care of.

Here is my work in progress,