I decided to go with a T56 so I got one last week.

First question is:
Do I use the same holes from my old clutch master cylinder on the firewall for the new 6 speed one?
I've got the master cylinder installed and attached to the pedals but the clutch pedal won't move. Slave cylinder is sitting on the floor since the tranny isn't installed yet.

Question #2:
I kept reading that you can't use the gas pedal from the 4th gen 6 speed cars. I just installed the 4th gen pedals in my 86 Trans Am with no problems at all. why do they say you can't use the 4th gen gas pedal?

thanks

 

Hey Zepher,
I used my T-5 master cylinder holes to mount the T-56 master and everything worked great, the master cylinders appear to be 100% identical. I don't know why you wouldn't be able to push the clutch pedal, that is very odd....did you get a complete master, slave, reservoir, and line assembly prebled from GM? That's what I did and everything hooked up and worked GREAT! I didn't use 4th gen pedals I just used the pedals that were already in my car and I had no trouble at all. Are you sure the master cylinder itself isn't binding for some reason? Sorry I couldn't be more help, but good luck with the rest of the swap, you'll LOVE IT!!!!!

-Paul

P.S. I wouldn't want to try and push the clutch without the tranny installed and slave bolted up because if you do that you're liable to blow the slave, since it won't have the clutch fork to restrict it's movement...just a thought though.

 

I got the tranny, hydraulics, and pedals from the 93 Formula donor car.
It could be binding a bit since it looks like the master cylinder needs to be tilted up slightly.
I'll look at it tomorrow and see what I can find.

I just wanted to know if you could use the same holes in the firewall.

thanks

 

Yep the same holes are no problem at all! And the setup you got off the donor car should be fine...I just was wondering if you were piecing together a setup from differnt cars or a parts store and then bleeding it, cuz in my experince you can never get a clutch hydraulic system bled quite like the factory (not that that would effect whether you could push the pedal or not, I was just curious) ...dunno why, but it just seems that way. Anyway, good luck and keep us posted!

-Paul

 

Its been debated for some time that you will not get full disengagement from the clutch by using 4th gen pedals in a 3rd gen. If you can get a set of T5 pedals, you would notice a difference. I beleive 84zz4 said that the angle is different on the pedals themselves

all the holes lined up for me without an issue

I have no idea about the gas pedal though

 

I was thinking about this, I am curious right now, the car i want has a T5, just curious would I need the whole entire setup from a T56? Why can't I just swap trannys and keep the pedals and all the other resoviors? It's probably a dumb question but I don't get it why everything has to be swapped...

Joe

 

You have to change the hydrualics.. The hose coming off the master cylender to the slave is to short on a T5.. The one for a T56 is longer.

Kat

 

well thats stupid.


think about it.


the pedals in the 4thgen have the same amount of travel when you put the 4thgen pedals in the 3rdgen.


the only diff between the clutch pedals is the location where the master cyl attaches to the pedal.....


if you use 3rdgen pedals with the T56, the clutch sticks up high. use 4thgen pedals and they are regular height.

 

I think I may have to elongate the holes where the mastercylinder comes through the friewall.
I wish I didn't have to since it was a pain to get the mastercylinder into place.

the 4th gen gas pedal seems to work fine, at least it did when I had the 4th gen auto pedals in the car, but I do have a lokar throttle cable.

 

So what is all involved in a T5 to T56 swap Zeph?
I want to do this swap some day - any advice or words of wisdom?

 

Zepher....the reason you can't depress the clutch pedal is because the slave is laying on the floor. When the slave is out of the tranny it extends itself all the way to the end of it's travel (read as: can't go any farther.) If you push real hard on the pedal you'll get it to move, but you'll also blow the slave piston out the end of the cylinder.


Good luck with the rest of the swap. You'll love it when you're done.

 

Oh, is that why the clutch pedal wouldn't move?

My T56 is in my brothers T/A temporarilly, so as soon as he gets another 4L60E, I'll put my T56 in along with the pedals.

I just picked up a bunch of parts that I want to put on too, LCA's, AGX Struts with new spindles and brakes, and a few little knick knacks.

 

TheGreatJ would be the one to ask since he has already done it.
My friend did a swap as well, but I wasn't there to help. It only took him a day to do the whole swap from an auto to T56 so it isn't too hard. He had more work to do since he didn't have holes for the shifter or clutch master cylinder.

 

It's really not a bad swap to do, especially since you're starting with a stick. That way you don't have to drill holes for the clutch master cyl or chop out the auto. shifter brackets or anything messy like that. In fact, the only mod you'll have to make to your floorpan is to open the shifter hole up about 2" toward the back of the car. You can keep your pedals (the LT1 clutch hydros will mount up and work, albeit with a very high clutch pedal) as well as your torque arm and driveshaft. You'll need a conversion crossmember (see spohn's website) and you'll have to figure out a way to make the speedo work. I didn't have to deal with this as I'm no longer using the stock speedo. Other than that, get everything you can from the donor car and it will all bolt right in. Just leave the CAGS solenoid unhooked, and wire the reverse lockout solenoid to the brakelights or else take it apart and cut a coil off the lockout spring to make it a biased reverse gate. It can be done in a day if you don't sleep in.


BTW Manny what gears do you have? I have a hazy notion of 3.73 in my head but I can't remember for sure. You're gonna want those or 4.10's behind the 6-speed.

 

I've got 4.10's, but I have the 93 Tranny which isn't a great combo. I got the entire package minus x-member for $800 so I couldn't pass it up.

 

Eh....the deep 1st gear won't go as well with the 4.10s. A lot of people would rather have the deeper gearing though (so thay can keep their stock 3.27's or whatever)....maybe you could find someone to do a straight trade between now and the time you stick it in?

 

I may just keep this one and use it till I find another one and then put the 93 T56 into the Formula which has 3.23 gears in it.

 

Sounds like a plan with potential.







Seems like we've pretty thoroughly carjacked the thread, eh?

 

Zepher, the swap wont be too bad. I did mine 2 years ago and it was the best mod I have ever done. I went from a t5 so it wasnt too too bad. Everything lines up perfect except for the shifter but as we all know you must cut the shifter hole back a few inches. AS for the pedals, I reused my T5 ones but the pedal. Do you guys that have the 4th gen ones recommend them or should I just keep my T5 pedals in. I know they dont work any better but how far back will the 4th gen pedal be compared from the t5 location?

PS. one very important part to this swap is making sure the clutch fork is FULLY INGAGED into the pivot bolt. if not the fork will work its way down jam itself in the bracket that holds the slave cylinder. been there done that not a good situation. trust me

 

hey guys. i am having major difficulty with my t-56 conversion. i got a t-56 out of a 93 camaro with flywheel and all. ok first off i bought the sphon custom tranny mount and it didn't want to fit in correctly. the hole wasn't drilled far enough toward the back of the car. so i drilled another one and made it like a slider piece. now when i put my console in the shifter base where your bolt int he top of the shifter (the short little nub sticking out of the tranny) hits my console when i put it in reverse. so the tranny isn't over to the drivers side enough. now when i start my car i can drive it and stuff but it vibrates like crazy when i am moving or not and whether i have the clutch in or not. i get a very bad vibration all the time. any ideas on what it could be? and why the hell didn't that cutom tranny mount work like it should have? anyone else have troubles with it??

 

vibration can be any number of things. first off, are you 100% sure you installed the flywheel and clutch setup the right wayu and all bolts are tight? did you put a new or old clutch in? If the vibration is there all the time then you may have a bent input shaft. I would pull the tranny and start over. as for the trans mount holes not lining up, I wouldnt worry about that It seems you fixed it by reeming out the holes a little bit. no biggie.

 

The shifter rubbing isn't a big deal....you may have to "massage" the top corner of the lower stick to get it to clear the notch in the side of the console where the e-brake handle falls. This is more-or-less dependent on which shifter your went with and seems to be a fairly common problem. I had to do some slight clearancing on mine as well, but it was the actual shifter base and not the lower stick.

The vibration is a different story. If it does it ALL the time, it's most likely a flywheel/pressure plate balance problem. Does the vibration follow engine RPM or does it follow the car's speed? If it follows speed then it's almost certainly a driveshaft issue. If it's RPM related you're looking at a flywheel/clutch/input shaft problem.

A bent input shaft would not cause vibration when the car is stopped, in gear, with the clutch pressed so that's something else you can try to eliminate. Just out of curiosity, what kind of tranny mount did you use? Also did you get the Spohn crossmember with the relocated torque arm mount or the stock-style one?

 

ok on the crossmember i bought the sphon custom t-56 oem style one with stock mounted torque arm. secondly the shifter hitting ticks me off i am going to take the bracket down and weld over the hole i drilled and drill another one about 1/2 an inch away so it wont hit anymore (just cuz it drives me nuts and i would rather do the work to it than have it hit forever. now on the vibration part. the car is stopped so it isn't driveshaft. i did put a new aluminum one in from a 2000 ls1 but i think i have narrowed it down to it not being the driveshaft since the car isn't moving. the vibrations defintly follow the rpms. and when i push in the clutch it still vibrates just as much wilth the clutch engauged. so i had already narrowed it down to the flywheel or pressure plate. now my question would be how can i fix it? the clutch disk and pressure plate are brand new out of the box. would resurfacing the flywheel fix the balance problem if that is what it is? and if it is the clutch disk and plate how can i fix that? what could be wrong with those.

 

You're using the flywheel out of the '93 right? WHat size is the engine? I believe the 305 uses a smaller counterweight on the flywheel than the LT1.....that may be your problem. You could take your new and old flywheels to a machine shop and have them match balanced if this is the case.

 

i have a l98 350 tpi. should be same countr weight dont ya think. also noone responded as to whether or not i could just get the flywheel resurfaced to fix the problem or if i will need a whole new flywheel and if it isn't the flywheel and it is the lcuthc disk and plate how do i fix that. also could my pilot bearing be causing this vibration in any way. i just used my old one form my t-5 didn't even think to replace it. just trying to think of possible things that could be wrong.

 

Yeah the L98 and the LT1 have the same counterweighting. Also, resurfacing won't make a difference unless the flywheel is actually warped, in which case you should really get a new one anyway. Pilot bearing isn't much of an option because when the clutch is fully engaged there's no rotation there anyway.


At this point all I know to do is tear it down and see what there is to see.

 

do you think i can modify my t-5 racing flywheel inplace of my lt1 flywheel if the clutch pressure plate bolts line up i was thinking of drilling through my t-5 flywheel bolt holes to stick the lt1 flywheel pressure plate bolts through it since i know my t-5 flywheel is good?? any thoughts if this will work at all? also the last thing i am wondering about is the guy who sold me this tranny gave me clutch spacers you put inbetween the flywheel and the pressure plate i think. i didn't use them cuz he said they weren't needed have any of you ever heard of this?? do i need them and how do i install them if i do.

 

I know the T-56 clutch won't bolt onto a stock T-5 flywheel at all. You could look into having it machined to work but I don't know what it would take or if it's even possible. I think the T-5 flywheel isn't big enough....

Also, I've never heard of "clutch spacers" but it seems to me that moving the pressure plate away from the flywheel would be BEGGING for the clutch to slip. You DO need to have either lockwashers or Loctite (or both) on the pressure plate bolts. If one of them were to back out it would cause an imbalance and vibrate like crazy.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by polygaryd
[B]i did put a new aluminum one in from a 2000 ls1 but i think i have narrowed it down to it not being the driveshaft since the car isn't moving. the vibrations defintly follow the rpms.


I could be wrong but I believe the ls1 flywheel might throw the motor out of balance. Also you might have some problems with your pilot bearing.

 

hey guys i put my gta back together with my t-5 flywheel and the lt1 clutch and pressure plate. it can be done!!! also i talked to the guy about the flywheel. it seems it isn't a stock lt1 flywheel and how would i know i've never seen one before. also it was balance specifically to his custom built motor and that is why it vibrated on mine i am guessing. my t-5 flywheel doesn't vibrate at all and the only thing i had to do to make it work was get longer bolts 2.25 inches with the same thread as the t-5 pressure plate and it bolted right on no problems at all. the flywheel itself was 3/16 fo an inch thiner and kicked my clutch fork back that much so i ended up cutting and rewelding the push rob from the clutch slave cylinder about 3/4 of an inch or more and it saved me 200 dollars to get a new flywheel from gm. i replaced my pilot bearing with a moroso pilot bearing and my tranny and torque arm mounts with some energy suspension ones. with the new tranny mount i was able to move the trany over 3/4 of inch to center it in the tunnel and i drilled another hole in the sphon tranny bracket to use the two outside holes of the mount instead of the one center one. this made it so my shifter didn't hit the side of my console at all.. not even close. shifts fine and 6th gear is fun. thanx for the info. now i am working on getting my speedo to work..

 

hey i forgot to ask did you guys when you installed your t-56 did you use your old t-5 shift boot that screws intot he tunnel? is the t-56 shift boot different?? i am trying to see if i should order a new one from gm. i need cover the opening where the tranny come inot the car the noise is horrible i want it quiet!!

 

My original lower shift boot was all but destroyed. I ended up getting a "mega boot" or whatever it's called. They're made by Mr. Gasket (and Hurst I believe..same company anyway) and I ended up zip tying it to the floor, because none of the holes lined up. It's definitely not the greatest, but it keeps the noise down. If I ever have to do any tranny/shifter work, I'll probably need to replace it with something else because the only way I could get it secured properly was when I had the console completely out of the car If you can get a replacement GM one that will work with the 6 speed go for it, that's what I'd do if I had it to do over again (although GM discontinued the boot for my '84, so I'd have to make something else work). Good luck!

-Paul

 

ok guys i have never owned one of these tranny's before since i just did the swap about a month ago. now i dri ve the car and i feel a lot of different things since i put this tranny in. when i hit bumps the floor vibrates under my feet and seat just for a couple seconds and then it is gone. also the tranny makes noise when i am in say 4th gear and not going to fast, after i step on the gas it makes a whining noise. is that normal?? it does it in every gear like that except first. also when i get up around 4 grand rpm level the car seems to shake a little too. this is all compaired to my t-5. now i have put in an engery suspension tranny mount and torque arm mount. could this be the problem since the t-5 had just the rubber mounts?? that is about the only thing i can think of for the vibration problems they are very minor compaired to the first couple of posts i had. that was definitly the flywheel. these problems are something else. i wanted to know if this is common and i should just live with it or something is wrong with my install or tranny. also i dont have a tunnle boot on yet either so i was thinking maybe i wont hear the tranny noise after i put it on???

 

The T-56 is notorious for being a loud tranny (that's from having 7 sets of gears in a constant mesh rotating all the time) so don't worry too much about the whine. As for the vibration, that's most likely due to the poly mounts. They're stiffer than the stock rubber so they transmit vibration more....they're also a lot strogner so it's a give-and-take situation.

It's interesting to hear that the T-5 flywheel will work with a little fabbing.....the guy may have been running a 383 crank or something which would account for the off-balance problem. Glad you got it straightened out!

Have fun rowing through those gears...I know I do.

 

hey guys. i took a mechaninc for a ride in my car and he said it sounds like the bearings are worn but not to worry about it just when it breaks take it apart and fix it. lol it happens only in 2nd through 4th which is wierd but i hope the tunnel boot quiets it atleast. i hate the noise. but i love the gears !!! so much fun.