Can anyone tell me the "average" HP and TQ limit on each of these transmissions???

 

Horsepower doesn't mean anything. You won't typically see manual transmissions rated by horsepower limit.

The WC T-5 is rated at 300 lbs/ft of torque. Non-WC T5s are substantially less. Z-spec boxes are rated at 330 lbs/ft. G-force T5s are rated at 500 lbs/ft.

The T-10 is a mystery to me. My thought would be a lot. This transmission is used in some NASCAR cars, so I've got to believe it's tough and reliable. The Super T-10 is most likely what you'd be dealing with, since the original T-10s were used in the early to mid 60s.

 

i was thinking of getting a T-10 out of an 82 camaro/firebird for my car but not sure what exactly i would need. isnt it a non hydraulic clutch setup? and would it be different bell housing and everything? also would the clutch be different? TKO you seem to be pretty good on answering my ?'s about rear ends and trannys. iv heard that the T-10s were alot stronger than the T-5's and i dont have the kind of cash for a 6-speed. i dont think ill ever put that kinda money into my transmission alone, unless a T-10 swap is expensive. lol ill do some searching on it tonight and see what i find out about it. i want it to hold up to my 400 but not have a high cost as the T-56. you must get my point.... also the tranny i have in my car now came out of an 87 iroc-z if that means anything the original z-28(85) tranny went in it due to lack of lubrication, and drive it without any. then it was too late and it went on me. maybe it would have held up alot better.

 

As long as the trans came factory is a 3rd gen you should be fine. That way you'll have the torque arm mount, and avoid a costly custom or AM crossmember.

The bellhousing will bolt right up. You will need to convert to a mechanical linkage for the clutch, but this isn't a problem because early cars had them, so the parts are easily obtained.

The T-10 is a better choice for srength right out of the box. You will lose your overdrive though, so consider that when selecting rear gears.

You could always save up for the T56 too. It took me six months of setting money aside to purchase a lot of the stuff I needed, and then I bought the trans on my credit card and payed it off over a couple of months too. It sure wasn't cheap, but it's a great trans, and the highway RPM is rediculously low, even with 3.73s.

 

So if i get 3.23's or 3.42's it should act like 3.73's or 4.11's or what not? maybe i should go with 3.08's.....? cause i am goingto try find a whole car or just the complete T-10 setup, but your saying the T-5 and t-10 bellhousings are the same or do i need to get the T-10 housing? it would be best if i went to a yard and found a parts car. or if anyone has a setup for sale let me know.

 

No, the T10 and T5 use unique bellhousings, but both will bolt to a small block or big block chevy (or 4.3 V6 for that matter).

You are smart to try and grab everything from one donor car. That will give you an idea of how it all goes together (take some pictures if you can), as well as ensure that you get all the parts you need.

What you need to concern yourself with is the "effective gear ratio". There are formulas that will give you engine RPM in a given gear at a given MPH. That's what you should check out. Tire diameter is also important, because taller tires make the car seem like it has lower (numerically) gears.

 

yeah ill probably go to a yard and see if i can pick up a whole car, and if its got missing crap thats fine or rims ill put my z ones on it and tow/haul it home id check to make sure everythings still there obviously. but how much do the T-10s usually run for? it cant be too much, its not like theres alot of request for them. also i saw on one of the sponsors for this web forum that they made the 4-speed up to 84 is this correct? probably rare requests or what not? iv been serching e-bay and such but not really anything, found a firebird, but it was a complete driveable one. so thats out of the question. if you had to guess what do you think it would be rated at for TQ? also i wont be using a torque arm so do you think i could get one out of a corvette for the setup? im not really sure if anything will be different.

 

If you're not using a torque arm then you should be able to use any one from a Chevy, or even a Buick or Pontiac (though you'll need the Chevy bellhousing).

I'm not sure about what a T-10 goes for.

I'd say a Super T-10 is probably good to 400 lbs/ft, but that's just my gut. I don't have anything to really back that up.

 

Im quite sure they have the same trans to bellhousing flange pattern, couldnt a T10 be bolted to the T5 housing to retain the hyd clutch ?

 

Well, for one not all T10s use the same input shaft style as the T5. Early ones use a 10 spline shaft, not like the later ones with the 26.

Also, the T5 is cocked sideways in a 3rd gen. I don't think this would work for the T10, even if you could use the same bellhousing, because of the mechanical shifter linkage.

Honestly, for $50 tops for a bellhousing why take the chance?

 

yeah, you can't use a t-5 bellhousing without an adapter. my 82 has a 10spline input shaft, i think some came with a 26spline. thats just a matter of changing your clutch disc.

but the t-5 is at something like a 15* angle, and the t-10 is installed straight up.

 

i noticed that the T-10's wernt at angles when i saw a pic of one at one time. but most likely buying a complete 82 parts car(if possible) and doing it that way, but i want something to fall back on, if i can use the transmission out of any other year camaro as in pre-82, then ill use that because of the fact that im not using a torque arm.

 

If you aren't using the torque arm them any GM Super T10 with a 26 spline input shaft will work. These were installed in cars from the early 70s onward. My '74 Nova would have had a Super T-10 from the factory. The 60s era ones will have the 10 spline input shaft though. GM made the switch in mid '69, so be careful of '69 transmissions, especially if you can't see them before purchase, like if you buy one off the net. The trans mount is the same location as a TH350 or Muncie 4-speed (actually the trans is nearly identical to a Muncie), so a crossmember designed to work with either of these transmissions will work with the Super T10.

 

i found a Super T-10 out of an 83 camaro. i thought it was only one year. but i noticed a page about transmissions( i think it was this site) said it was made up to 84. but i dont know. if i got this tranny id still need clutch linkage and pedals(are they different?) also driveshaft?

 

There were no T-10s in 83; 82 was the last year. The 4-speeds that continued through 83 & 84 were Saginaws behind 4-cyls (yuck). Of course, what it's in now and what it originally came out of, could be 2 different things.

Without knowing what you have now, I can't predict what you'll have to change. That includes the drive shaft issue which is about the least trouble of anything to change (you just carry it to a drive shaft shop and say "make this x inches long and put y yoke on it", about $75 plus parts later you're done). Older T-10s used the same yoke as a Turbo 400, where the T-5 and auto yoke is the same as a Turbo 350. Don't know for sure about the 82 T-10s though. But I can tell you that the 82-83 linkage pedals are different from 84-up hydraulic ones; they definitely will not interchange.

It's not impossible, depending on how the trans mounts in the car, that it would work with a hydraulic clutch. If the trans is rotated toward the driver's side like a T-5 is, the hydraulics would work. If it sits straight up, the hydraulic system will NOT work, and you'll have to have all the right pieces to go with it; those would include bell housing, clutch fork, Z-bar, Z-bar frame bracket with pivot, engine-mounted pivot ball, both pieces of linkage, and pedal assembly for linkage. And of course you'll need a shifter, which is specific to the 82 model.

If this is not a 82 T-10, but rather some other model that's just stuffed off into a 83 car, then it's anybody's guess what you'll have to do, except that the BH and clutch linkage issues would remain a guaranteed necessity. But trying to guess what shifter to use or what drive shaft would be a stab in the dark.

 

lakewood makes a bellhousing for f body hydraulic clutch setups, that is drilled for both T5 and Muncie/T10 bolt patterns. they retail for just over $300. if you get that, you would be able to use the readily available clutch pedal and hydraulic setup.

 

Is there any way to tell the difference between a saginaw and the T-10? if its a saginaw then its a ton weaker? and they didnt come on the V8's right? that would majorly suck if its a saginaw

 

The Saginaw is garbage. But yes, they absolutely did come on V8s; probably 80% or more of all 82 V8 4-speed cars were Saginaws.

T-10 case is aluminum, Saginaw case is cast-iron. T-10 has the reverse shifter shaft in the extension housing, Saginaw has it in the case.

Those 2 things ought to enable you to spot them from a couple of hundred yards away.

 

Alright cool i put a wanted ad up looking for the right stuff. i can get everything for 600 bucks do you think thats worth it or should i try to find a junkyard car around here?

 

What do you mean by "everything"? It doesn't sound bad, but the exact parts list is important.

 

pedals, clutch linkage, bellhousing, transmission, shifter, crossmember and driveshaft.

 

Sounds like a reasonable deal if everything is in great condition.

 

in great condition, so your saying its on the high side of what i should pay? i told him it would be more like 500 shipped. from Concord NH and im in upstate NY its not a long ways to ship.

 

I would say $600 delivered is a good deal. Shipping is probably going to run him $75, even for the short distance.

 

but he wants 600 i pick it up. or plus shipping.....

 

It still isn't that bad. Figure $500 for the trans $50 for the bellhousing and $50 for everything else. That's a good deal.

 

Glad, that you found your tranny. Now I am not feeling guilty about posting my ad in the classifieds section.

For those that never go there, I am wanting to know if anyone wants to trade a 91 V8 700R4 assembly less convertor for a T-10 setup.

 

I have a Muncie 4 Speed sitting here that I never got to use. supposedly, they are stronger than the Super T-10's and have a better gear spread. This one is a 620 case muncie, for what its worth. I dont need it, still looking for a 4 speed?

 

I don't think that the Muncie is any stronger than a T-10. After a fair amount of experience with Muncies I think they are decent transmissions, but definately have their limitations.

They are worth a lot of money nowadays though. I recently sold one for $750 plus shipping through eBay.

Do you know what model it is?

 

No clue, i got it about 2 years ago in a trade... I pulled off the side cover and checked it all out and took pictures, everything looks / works very nicelly, but i dont think its ever been rebuilt.

All i was told is that its a 620 case, but im not sure if its a M-21 or M-22 or whatever. I was going to use it to replace my Super T-10 that blew up, but I went to an automatic instead.

 

I think the M22 was a fine spline version of the M21... meaning (i think) more teeth on the input shaft. I think the M21 had 10 teeth, and the M22 had 26. Could be wrong though.

 

i just recently did this swap from auto overdrive to 4 speed stick, and it was cake. i found manual pedals from ebay (50$) and had an aluminum housing trans from a previous car.used any ol' chevy adjustable linkage and a bellhousing i had and it went in without any hitches(one slight bend in the body under the gas pedal for clutch fork clearance)...clutch feels responsive. i also installed the jegs torque arm re-locator kit that bolts the rear to the body rather than the trans. allows you to install any trans. and stiffens.it was all very easy i just cant find a driveshaft. i really just need to get one cut and new rear gears. the 2.73's are really not going anywhere with the 4 speed.anyone know any good chevy garages in NJ????

 

Give me the casting number off the main case and I'll tell you what it is.

The M22 is not a fine spline version of the M21. The original Muncies used a 10-spline input shaft until about 1969, when they switched to a 26-spline shaft exactly like the one still used to this day in Chevy manuals.

The M22 has gears cut with a low helix angle, which makes them a lot stronger than the gears in the M21 and M20. Actually the M22 has the exact same ratios as the M21, so the only difference is the cut of the gears. The M22 whines audibly in gear, which earned it the name the Rockcrusher. The whine comes from the cut of the gear teeth. The closer they are to straight up the stronger they become. Jericos and Libertys use straigth cut gears and are rated to over 1,000 HP.

 

wow i didnt know they made a relocator for the torque arm mount. so with that id be able to run a 2nd gen 4-speed in my car correct? everything exept the clutch linkage and pedals?

 

Yes, that's right. You could run any 4-speed actually.

The kits relocate the mount to the trans crossmember, which is really where it belongs in the first place. Mounting it to the trans was a cost saving measure used by GM during production. If you read about real torque arm setups, or see aftermarket ones for Mustangs, they all mount the front of the TA to the crossmember, not the trans.

 

sweet, i guess ill be searching for pedals and clutch linkage, crossmember,driveshaft online and get my tranny bellhousing ect. around here.....good deal...