ok here is the deal.... a buddy of mine can get a super T-10 for me for 600 bucks. Suposidly it was rebuilt recently and was from a corvette. it has the bell housing and cluch an possibly some other goodies included. Is this worth it to try to get it to work with my 85' Z ? I would love a manual. I figure I can make alot of the money back by selling my 700R4 (it only has a lil over 50k on it) How much would it cost to make it work? How hard is it to fine 82' parts and convert it that way? All opinions welcome

 

From a strength standpoint the Super T-10 is a good trans. A friend of mine runs one in an 11 second Nova, and has never had it break in over three years.

Swapping it into your Camaro will take some work. You will need a new torque arm and crossmember to move the TA mount off the side of the trans and onto the crossmember. One for a TH350 will work, like those sold by B&M or Spohn. The TH350 and Super T-10 are the same length and have the same mount placement.

You'll need a new driveshaft, your 700R4 shaft will be too short.

You'll probably have to run a mechanical linkage from an '82-'83 3rd gen. Easy to find in a junkyard, at least around here. If you want hydraulic it can be fabricated, but nothing will bolt right in.

Some minor wiring is involved, nothing that's a really big deal. Compare the 700R4 diagram to the T5 diagram and rewire everything accordingly.

 

So is a mechanical setup a pain to drive? Its not a daily driver. Will the parts from a saginaw setup work? the drive shaft? the linkage? bell housing? cross member? Is the torque arm mound on the 82' T10 somthing that could be used on a different T10?

thanks

 

I like mechanical setups over hydraulics personally.

 

Me too... the only thing about mechanical setups is that the pedal is stiffer. Not a big deal though, its not gonna be a two-foot clutch or anything.

I like the mechanical linkage in my '83 because you can 'feel' whats going on in the pedal, like when it starts to grab, etc... hydraulic feels disconnected (obviously, lol).

 

Amen to that. I'm not a fan of hyrdaulic clutches either. You can't feel the engagement point. They are very numb. There's nothing inherently bad about a mechanical linkage. I would prefer one in any vehicle, but sadly all the newer cars are hydraulic.

If the trans is from a Corvette it won't have a torque arm mount. The F-body is the only car that used a TA rear suspension.

I'd use the bellhousing that goes with the T-10. I don't know if it and the Saginaw use the same mounting pattern and register size.

I would think that the mechanical linkage from the '82-'83 F-car should bolt right up with no problems. Use the shift fork from the F-car.

 

ok, so if i get this tranny what i need is: All I need a cross member (will any 4-speed x-member from a 3rd gen work?) Will any T10 bell housing do as long as I have all the other parts from an 82 or an 83? I have never delt with a manual linkage before so i am not sure what exactly all of the parts are and what they do. If sombody could list the parts involved in the manual linkage on an 82-83 4spd car that would be awesome. I will alo need a drave shaft from an 82-83, and I was thinking I would just get one of those brackets that mounts the torque arm to the frame.

 

I'm not sure that a drivehsfat from an '82-'83 car with the Saginaw is the same length. Can someone here verify that?

Any T-10 bellhousing for a GM car should work. They should all be the same. You may be able to run a 168 tooth flywheel if you get the right housing, which will allow you to use the bigger clutch. BTW, a bellhousing for a Muncie 4-speed will work too, as the T-10 uses the same mounting pattern and register size.

From an '82-'83 donor car you need the following: Pedal assembly, z-bar, z-bar frame mount, clutch fork, cluthc fork pushrod from z-bar, z-bar pushrod from clutch pedal, return spring and rod, and bellhousing ball stud. Those are the primary parts in ammechanical clutch linkage

You are going to need an aftermarket trans crossmember. One from a 3rd gen won't have the TA mount, because they all use the trans tailshaft housing to mount the TA.

 

I think that i remember hearing that any 82'-83' drive shaft will work even v6 and such.

so a stock cross member from an 82' originally equiped with a T10 wont work? if it wont i might as well get the torque arm x-member combo from spohn and get the ajustability for the arm at the same time.

 

I'm not really sure. The Vette trans might use a diffeent tailshaft housing that the F-body one. The real ticket would be to find an '82 with a T-10 and take the trans tailshaft housing, TA mount, and x-member. The tailshaft housing should bolt to the trans in place of the stock one, and will have a TA mount cast in.

 

Damn... it seems I have called just about every junk yard in Illinois nobody has any of this stuff!! I will keep trying more yards... but man this is getting old. Anybody got sugestions as to where else to look for this stuff? Or better yet does anybody have this stuff for sale?

 

This is what I know from gathering info on a 4-speed swap I'll be doing in the spring. I'm going from a mech. linkage T5 to an '82 T10 4-speed out of a Trans Am.

- The 4-speed driveshaft is longer than the 5-speed, but both 4-speeds and the '82 autos use the same driveshaft.

- The 4-speed trans's and the '82 autos used a different crossmember than the 5-speed/700r4 cars.

- The 4-speed/'82 auto used a different torque arm than the T5/700R4 cars do.

- The '82 T10 used a TH350 output shaft yoke. I THINK this is right, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure about the '82 autos and the Sag 4-speed.

All the 4-speeds I described above are the '82 T10 and Sag trans's. IIRC though, the Super T10 will mount in the same place as the '82 T10/Sag gear boxes, it just will not have a torque arm mount.

 

I have a pretty good idea about what stuff I need, I just and having a horrible time finding these things. I should be able to find the mechanical linkage setup and pedal assembly for less than 100$ right?

 

Ok ok, before you guys all start talking about you high HP 305's opps I mean 383's and such, lets get real. If you had any real power no one is going to use or reccomend manual cluch linkage, if you had it with a high HP engine you wouldent be able to push the clutch in. Go ahead and ask me how I know.

Hyd is the only way to go.

The driveline for a T10 is the same as a saginaw or 200c, yes its the same output shaft as a TH350, 200c , saginaw M20, M21 ect. M22 uses a TH400 output shaft just in case you were interested. You use the front holes in frame some are tapped some arent, my 85 Z28 was I'm not sure aout all other years but I do know newer ones arent. You need an aftermarket Xmember or an 82 Xmember, the stock 700R4/T5 wont line up although some people will make them work.

 

I guess the big question is how much would it take to get a hydraulic setup to work. My friend is telling me we can get it to work for a couple hundred. Everywhere I see on this board people are talking about their horror stories of spending 1000 bucks to get it to work. I simply can't spend much more than 200 on a hydraulic setup, there are too many other expenses like the trans itself and the x-member, torque arm and drive shaft. Not to mention a shifter, and a pedal assembly. Correct me if I am wrong, but the mechanical way seems far less expensive than the hydraulic route. I am running a 305 that will maybe turn mid 14s after I do what i want to do this winter nothing crazy as far as power goes. I just think a 4-speed would be so fun!

 

Well what you want for a shifter is a floor mounted one, its not the trans body mounted type like in Summit. I had gotten one when I was going to do the M22 conversion in my Z28, it came from a late 70's POS Monza. I might still have it stashed someplace. It cost me $20 but I know the shift rods would need to be modified to fit the shifter in a 3rdgen console. Or you could just find the factory 82 stuff. Making a hydraulic assembly isnt hard, like ive said in a few other posts my friend made one with peices from a Omni for his BB 64 wagon it and the kicker is it works fine to this day. This guy isnt all up there anymore either.

 

doesnt hurst make a short-throw of somekind that will fit?

 

There's no need to deal with a hydraulic clutch system if you don't want to. Plenty of high power cars run mechanical linkages. We ran one in my Dad's Chevelle, which ran mid 11s with a 454 and a Muncie. If you're making serious power you will need to keep the motor from torquing over under load and binding the linkage. You can do this with solid motor mounts, a torque strut, or even a short section of chain bolted to the motor and then to the framerail. Actuating the clutch was never a problem on this car once we had the motor held down.

The other thing you need to determine is that the runout in the register of the bellhousing is within spec. If it isn't you won't be able to get the trans into 4th gear at the top of the track at high RPM. Any deviation can be corrected withoffset bellhousing dowels. We ran into this problem on my Dad's Chevelle and my uncle's Corvette. Once it was corrected it was no problem hitting 4th gear, even at 7,000 RPM.

For a shifter I'm not sure what will work. You might try a universal Hurst Comp. Plus for a Muncie or Super T-10. I don't know if a shifter meant for the stock Saginaw would work or not, but it's a possibility.

For the linkage parts I feel bad for you. There are at least four cars sitting in junkyards around here right now that have all this stuff. Definately don't spend more than $100 for it either. I got the pedals for my car and all the mounting mardware for the hydraulic clutch system for only $50. There's no way that the rest of the linkage is worth more than $50.

 

Hurst does make a 4-speed shifter for these cars. For some reason, its also for '63-67 Corvettes, lol.

Anyway, the Summit number is HUU-3917960 and its $165. Not bad IMO. I'll probably be getting one myself when the time comes.

 

will the bell housing from an 83' mechanical T-5 work? or is the bolt pattern completely different? It is gonna be hard to find an 82' T10 specific bell housing if that is what i need to do.

 

A T5 bellhousing won't work. The T-10 and the T5 don't use the same bolt pattern or register size. I don't know if the '82 T-10 bellhousing is anything special. It is possible that any T-10 bellhousing, or at least one from another more common model will also work. Go to the local junkyard and ask them to check the Hollander Interchange Manual to see what is the saem as the '82 T-10 F-body bellhousing.

 

Are all the tail shafts on T10s the same length? Will I have an issue using a factory 82' driveshaft with a Super T10 from a corvette?

 

The length is the same as ANY GM 4 or 3 speed manual, even a toploader.

 

sweet !:lala: :lala:

 

I think my parts came in today (delivering again tomorrow cuz I missed them) so I can take some pics of whatever parts you guys are interested in... just lemme know what you wanna see and I'll see what I can do

It would be basically the entire 4-speed setup (T10) out of an '82 Trans Am except for the crossmember and torque arm. I think I have all of the other parts for it... trans, bellhousing, shifter, clutch linkage, pedal(s)...

If you guys want pics, lemme know!!

 

gimmie gimmie gimmie..... how much you want for everything? Is the T10 junk? if so could i purchase the the tail housing? pics of everything would be nice.

 

I have everything down to bags of bolts from what I've heard from the guy I bought it from... can you maybe be a little more specific?

 

ok...

1. How come you ordered all of this stuff if you want to sell it?
2. What kind of shape did the seller claim the T10 was in?
3. Did the 82' 3rd gens come with a super T10?
4. I may be interested in EVERYTHING depending on how much you want for it.
5. Even if I pick up this other T10 i have been looking at I may be interested in in the entire mechanical linkage setup and the pedal assembly... maybe the bell housing and shifter too

Basically i will probably need everything... as of now i have been just looking around.

 

All T-10s after I think '72 are Super T-10s. GM was looking to get away from building its own manual transmissions, and slowly phased in the Super T-10 and phased out the Muncie. That's why the two are externally nearly identical. They are interchangeable. That's GM's legendary parts interchangability working for you.

 

is there any varience in pressure plates over the 3rd gen years... lets say I get a setup from sombody that was running a mechanical setup on an 89' 1-piece rear main car. I know the flywheel from that setup will not work..... will the pressure plate work?

 

The changes in GM clutch configuration are as follows:

Pre '69 - 10 spline "coarse" input shaft (won't work with later 26-spline transmissions, but the only difference is the clutch disc)

'69-'86 - 2-piece RMS engines (use specific flywheel, clutch assembly is the same)

'87-later gen 1 - 1-piece RMS engines (use specific flywheel, clutch assembly is the same)

Gen II - LT1 engines uses specific clutch and flywheel assembly for use w/ T56 transmission. Standard 1-piece RMS flywheel and clutch can be used with other transmissions.

Gen III - LSI engines use specific components. Aftermarket suppliers are starting to make parts that can mate older style transmissions to the LS1.

Keep in mind that there are two clutch and flywheel configurations for nearly all of these options. The 153 tooth flywheel and small clutch (10" roughly), and the 168 tooth flywheel and large clutch (11" roughly).

3rd gen F-cars used the 153 tooth flywheel and small clutch combo with the T5, I'm not sure about the earlier 4-speed cars. LT1 T56s use the 153 and small clutch too. Muncies can use either, as can Super T-10s. I always ran the bigger flywheel and clutch with the Muncies adn Super T-10s. The bellhousings are usually big enough to accomodate them.

 

lots of misinformation in this thread.

will reply in a few days.

 

JMD, you know a lot about this stuff. Here's the questions I think need to be answered that I just can't answer.

1.) Does the '82 Camaro with the Super T-10 use a specific bellhousing, or will any Super T-10 or Muncie bellhousing work? If any one will work these are a dime a dozen, but if not it is going to be harder to locate.

2.) What size clutch/flywheel did the '82 Camaro with the Super T-10 use? If the bellhousing is the same as a regular Super T-10 or Muncie housing is there any reason not to use one clutch/flywheel assembly or the other?

3.) Does the Saginaw 4-speed use the same bellhousing as the Super T-10? I've seen a lot of these cars in the junkyard, but never one with the Super T-10.

4.) Will the Corvette trans use the same length tailshaft housing and therefor driveshaft as the Super T-10 used in the '82 Camaro with the Super T-10? I am always skeptical of Corvette parts because they tend to be highly specialized.

I'm sure you'll be able to shed light on the stuff that I just can't. I never really dealt with the early mechanical linkage cars, because they only lasted 2 years, and there aren't a lot of them left around here.

BTW, I just noticed that SMURFN Z28 asked if he could use a mechanicla setup from a '89 3rd gen. Obviously not, because these cars were all hydraulic, unless someone has converted the car back to mechanical, in which case I'm going to say definately maybe.

 

TKO,

1. see above
2. same as T5
3. ever heard of two different 1982 F V8 bellhousings? There aren't.
4. Yes as long as it's not a 4+3.

Drive around in drive (not overdrive) for a couple weeks and see if you can stand it. I need overdrive. Fourth in the T-10 is the same as third in your 700-R4.



No, it's not a pain to drive, but the mechanical linkage used in 82-83 had an oddball z-bar that's a poor design. Mechanical linkage feels different than hydraulic. I've used hyd. and mechanical. The hyd. has a more consistent and firm pedal feel throughout the pedal travel. The mechanical has varied resistance through the pedal travel; easier to hold on the floor. Overall drivability goes to the hydraulic. Overall shiftability goes to a properly setup mechanical version. But, mechanical will need adjustment and wears linkage parts out sometimes.


You're starting to see why this is a bad idea.


You must buy clutches from the lemurs at Hays / Centreforce.

Pressure plates do NOT need to be ultra high sprung to be effective. Clutches use friction material to work as well. If your clutch mfgr. you're looking into says "well, we're gonna have to bring the pressure plate weight up to (some obscene # over what a stock one would be,)" start looking elsewhere.

The above is why I would consider McLeod and not Hays / Centreforce.


I've run both with their respective correct bellhousings (83 and 84-92), I wouldn't say that at all. The smoothest setup is mechanical with rod ends on the upper and lower pushrods. But the z-bar sucks in the 82-83 F which is why I wouldn't run mech in a third gen.


New hydraulics alone are 100$ + for GM LT1 hydrauilcs. Let's not try & set the market price on parts we dont' manufacture, okay? Luckily the LT1 hydraulics are nearly bolt-in for you.



Lesson three: floor mounted and crossmember mounted shifters are a poor choice. When the trans moves around a bit, the linkage can bind up and cause problems. Stick with an on-trans. shifter.


ALL third gen clutch forks are canted downwards. Which is why

for mechanical, the 82 bellhousing is your only worthwhile factory option.

and

ain't quite right because the fork will interfere with your floor.


More...

Yes they do. The T5 pattern is just tilted 18 degrees left.

There are bells with a non-relocated fork opening and a relocated ballstud from 78-81 A-bodies and another application but then you have to use the retarded dog leg fork. For mechanical, that and the 82 F bell are the only options which will correctly clear the floorboards and line up the fork with the z-bar.


Yes, just make sure the disc is the correct fine spline.

Contrary to what you may hear, a "1983" clutch works fine with hydraulics and a "1989" clutch works fine with mechanical.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by TKOPerformance
[B]Keep in mind that there are two clutch and flywheel configurations for nearly all of these options. The 153 tooth flywheel and small clutch (10" roughly),

10.5" on thirdgens, 10.75" on vette with special PP bolts.


So can T5s, just get the correct Lakewood. They make them for hyd. or mech. linkage third gens.

Would I bother running a 168 wheel and 11" clutch? No. There's simply no reason to make your clutch heavier.

 

1. I don't plan to sell it. I'm going to use it in my Z28.

2. Said it was in pretty good condition, but I cant remember exactly what he said.

3. No, I don't think so. It was just a regular T10 or Saginaw gearbox.

4. See #1 ... I did see a T10 setup for sale in the classifieds yesterday though. Maybe check that out?

5. I may or may not need the shifter, I'm not sure yet. If I can, I'll be buying a Hurst and making my own shifter rods.

 

stupid me... I dont know where I got the idea you were gonna sell it.

aside from that.... I am totally confused!

 

Ok... I found out a little bit more.... the trans is out of a 75' vette the stuff that is included is the pedal assembly and the shifter. The trans is suposidly a super T10 and its an aluminum case... is this bad? My friend says it looks from the outside to be a fresh rebuild (very clean and fresh silicon)... we will open it up and take a look early next week and i will post some pics. Another thing.... the guys actually wants $700 for it ugh.... this keeps gettting more expensive all the time.... is this a crappy deal? should i offer less and if he wont except just forget it? opinions please!

 

$700 seems pretty steep, but I don't know what those are worth, to be honest. I got my entire setup (trans and all other parts to make it a bolt-in deal) for $500 cdn.

Of course, if its a fresh rebuild with alot of money into it, it could be a good deal. Its hard to say. If he does claim it rebuilt though, ask for receipts, or some other kind of proof of the work being done.

The ST10 does have an aluminum case, so that sounds right. They also came out about midway through the '74 model year, phasing out the Muncie 4-speed.

 

it was suposidly built for a big block so i guess we will find out when we open the case and take a look... i will take some pics too

 

How so? I could be wrong, but IIRC there isn't much you can do to a manual trans to beef it up much more without replacing all the guts.

PS - '74 was the last year for the big block Corvette (454ci). After that was all 350s and 305s.

 

i not saying that it originally came from a car with a big block... i am saying that it was rebuilt with the intention of puting on a big block..... i think

 

ok... so if i were to run a hydraulic setup... what would be the most cost effective way of setting it up and what things do i need?

 

Anyone interested in an '82 T10 bellhousing out of my Z28?Great shape, and I also have the clutch linkage rods (from pedal to z bar and z bar to clutch fork?I went with a Lakewood scattershield and made my own spherical linkage years ago.Email me if interested at onebad82z@excite.com

 

The only tough part with cost effective + hydraulic is that the hydraulic vette bell that will clear has a different ballstud location & slave mount.

A Lakewood for 84-92 apps. would be a total bolt-in but does cost a few hundred. Everything else could be stock thirdgen parts if you had that.

You need pedals
master, line & slave
bellhousing, ballstud, fork, throwout brg
flywheel, bolts to crank, pressure plate, bolts to p.p. disc,
trans., crossmember, shifter, "long" driveshaft
and speedo gears
...

 

What is the register size you guys keep refering to? I'm just curious, it's terminology I'm not familiar with

Thanks

 

O.D. of the bearing retainer. On a T5 / T-10 etcetera, it's round and it serves as the index for the trans to bellhousing. On the production T56, they used 2 dowels.

 

Plain old T10's are aluminum, prone to case stretch in the higher geared ones, Super T10's are always cast iron. GM had the cases changed to iron cuz of a lot of early hi-po cars were fuxoring up the aluminum case/internals. I have a Power Brute Super T10 in my 94 Camaro, its the high nickel one with the uber 3.44 first gear. Guy I bought it from ran low 11's in his 1st gen with a 383.

If you can find one, switch to iron case, worth it if you're afraid about killing the internals.

Also, ST10's use the 32 spine TH400 yoke.

 

BigBlocks and Small Blocks use the same bellhousing bolt pattern, so it really doesn't matter which engine a bellhousing originally came from. The big block bell should be big enough to accept a 168 tooth flywheel though, whereas a small block is a toss up. Like JMD said, there isn't any real reason to use the 168 over the 153, as aftermarket clutches have basically leveled the playing field in terms of holding power. I usually ran a 168 flywheel because they were easy to come by, and I had the right starter laying around. That's what happens when you work on a lot of trucks, because they all use the big stuff.

For clarification, even if a T10 would bolt up to a T5 bellhousing this still isn't viable for two reasons. First, the trans will be tilted 18 degrees, and the trans mount pad won't be machined to sit flat on the crossmember like a T5 F-body trans is. Second, it's bound to cause shift linkage problems, console problems, and other such annoyances that can be avoided just by using an '82 T-10 bellhousing.

 

1982 f-bodies had Super T10s and they were aluminum. Let's not misinform the people who don't know any better please.

 

Due to cost reasons... i decided to just go for a wc T-5 instead... it should be just fine with my 305.