I've search the boards and the main site, and cant find a definiate answer. I need to know if the WC T-5 transmission came in all Firebird and Camaros (after 1988) or just the V8s. I've heard two different stories, and want to know if I have a WC or a NWC. Thanks.

 

I searched a little harder, and found this. I want to know what is different from the V8 T5 to the V6 T5. I know the bellhousing, but RB83L69 is making it sound like its a totally different transmission.

 

It is but its not. I think what he getting at is.... IT just a polished up(by its name) peice of junk so people assume its Gold.

The v6 tranny is always still just a v6 tranny. And giving it a wc name would then make it .... still just a v6 tranny. Get what im saying? Its just a 5 speed v6 tranny nothing special.
If you do a search look for people who have asked if they can convert them. Its not worth it. From what ive read its a weaker tranny all the way around.

 

the v-6 tranny in 4th gens is a world class..all you have to do is convert the input shaft...........the v-6 tranny in your 3rd gen is not a w.c..... it will not hold up behind a v-8.......the w.c tranny's are stronger and more reliable... the non.w.c. don't last long behind even mild v-8's........ I have a 350 that's putting out about 320 hp and 380 lbs and it ate a non w.c. in only a few months....both trannys have a problem with the 3rd to 4th slider... so if you plan on rebuilding one make sure you take a good look at the slider.

 

The V6 is pretty much the same except for the input shaft.

 

Thats like saying an apple is pretty much the same as an orange. Either way stock t5s are only good for there intended stock aplications. I have one hooked to my lt1 and its a time bomb. i cringe everytime i get on it. Not only that 3rd gear sounds like a wood chipper going into it.


once you past pretty much the 300 hp mark the newer t5s grenade just as easy as the older styles did. first you feel your tires hook good then you hear a nice crunchy sound.

 

All 3rd gens with a V8 used the WC T5 from mid '88 to '92

All 3rd gen V6 cars used a NWC T5

All 4th gen V6 cars use a WC T5, but the rear of the case is different making it impossible to mount it to a V8 bellhousing without some kind of adapter plate.

The WC is a significant design improvement over the NWC, and despite the previous derrisions there was a lot of technology pioneered in the WC T5 that eventually wound up inthe T56, which everyone seems to think is the cheif *** of transmissions.

The thing about the WC T5 is that it is the final evolution of the series. It started as a T4, a very light duty trans meant for 4 and 6 cylinder engines. It evolved into the original or NWC T5, which had the overdriven 5th gear. Again, this was still mainly intended for 6 cylinder cars, but Ford and GM started putting them behind the anemic V8s of the day. When fuel injection hit and performance started to return Borg/Warner revised the Design to the WC T5, which has an official torque rating of 300 lbs/ft as compared to the NWC which was only 250 lbs/ft.

Currently aftermarket parts are avialble that can strengthen a WC T5 to withstand up to 500 lbs/ft reliably.

 

IMO, WC or NWC, both are weak. The 3-4 slider went in my tranny so I pulled it out and found that it was an '88 WC. This was a 305 tpi with just a couple of bolt ons and it destroyed a WC T5, so if you want one to last send it to TKO or buy a good tranny.

 

Yup i agree, but who want to pay as much for a t5 5 speed as you can for a 6 speed?

 

I see a lot of beat up 3/4 sliders. I replace them in probably 3/4 of the T5s I rebuild. When you speed shift or powershift something's going to give eventually. The good news is the sliders are readily available. Short of converting to dog ring style synchros, which aren't very streetable, there's really nothing you can do about it. T56s have the same problem BTW.

The typical weak link in a T5 in racing is 2nd or 3rd gear. Powershifting on slicks will tend to blow the teeth right off the gear, which wipes out the cluster gear too. I don't even recommend super alloy gears for this type of use. G-Force is the only way to go in a track car.

 

You won't spend as much on the T5, unless you go with all the bells and whistles on the G-Force kit. Most guys don't need the solid bronze forks, or the overdrive set (5th gear). A typical G-Force T5 street synchro trans with a stock mainshaft comes in well under a T56 swap. Even using the upgraded 4340 mainshaft you will still save money.

The T56 is a great trans. The problem is that everyone knows that, and they sell for quite a bit. I can still pick up good WC T5 cores for less than 1/3 the cost of a T56. You also need some specialized swap parts that can start to add up depending on the exact configuration of your car. Most people don't think about that. They just say that the trans costs this and the swap cost the trans plus a couple hundred bucks. It isn't always that simple, especially with an older engine with a 2-piece RMS, or when you get into aftermarket clutches, etc. I'm not knocking the T56 swap, check my info and you'll see I run one in my car, but there is a lot of misinformation out there about the cost of this swap. Having done one and fully documented all the costs down to every nut and bolt I know how much it can cost.

 

were i live gas is 2.89 a gallon. I would save the difference in the swap in less than a year Im actualy planing a t56 too and have gone though the details. however if you could provide me instructions on how to get the t5 to withstand a 400hp lt1 on a 150 shot of spray w/sticky tires i would build a t5 instead.

(if it is cheaper that is)

 

Send me a PM. It can be done.

 

Could this info be shared publically? I'd be interested in this, too.

 

kinda a hard choice.. the t56 can handle 450lbs the t5 500lbs buit the t56 has 6th and saves fuel. while they cost pretty much identicle.

 

Yes, the 6th gear will improve milage a bit, but trust me you won't use it that much. My car turns 1,900 RPM on the highway with a 3.73 rear at 80MPH. Aroudn town 6th is useless. It just lugs the engine, which will eventually ruin the bearings. I'd also bet that the added weight of the T56 costs nearly as much as it saves. Trying to justify the swap based on gas milage is a hard sell. Even at today's prices it would probably take you five years to recoupe the cost.

I did the T56 swap because it was a strong trans that I could upgrade in the future if necessary to handle up to 800 lbs/ft and 900 HP. Plus it pins the needle on the Cool-o-meter when people look into the car and see the pattern on the ball. They ask the inevitable question, to which I always get to reply that the ball is correct.

Information on the T5 buildup I can offer. Pricing needs to be handled through PMs, per Third Gen's rule.

G-Force makes a street synchronized gear set (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th-input shaft, & countergear) made from super strong alloy. They also make upgraded mainshafts in either 9310 or 4340 variants. The 9310 is good for torque appications up to about 500 lbs/ft, but if you insist on pushing the envelope with nitrous or forced induction the 4340 shaft is the hot tickette. Overdrive sets are avialable in 0.73:1 and 0.50:1, but most people don't use 5th at the strip, so mainly these are for road racers and the occassional hardcore autocrosser. Solid bronze shift forks are another option, but as long as you use a quality aftermarket shifter like a Pro 5.0 I don't see the need, except in a serious drag race trans where nothing can be left to chance no matter how small the risk. Most of those guys are choosing to run the dog ring kits anyway, which come with the forks.

 

Thanks for the info. I'm doing an aftermarket T56 swap as we speak due to the additional strength. I've got a 383 that has the below mods (hyd roller cam, AFR heads, future SuperRam swap, etc). I had run a T5 for over 2 years but to be honest about it, I've been hesitant to apply much throttle on it. It has lived but it is on it's last legs. I have a nephew that wants to put this T5 into his car after it's been rebuilt. If I can find a way to upgrade the T5, I "may" swap back to the T5 due to weight. The ratio's aren't enough reason to do the swap. My retro-fit T56 has a 2.97 1st and .62 5th gear. Basically the same as the T5 I'm removing. Yeah, the T56 has a .80 5th but a split from 1.00 to .62 isn't too bad in a cruie situation. I repeat, the ONLY reason I'm upgrading to the T56 is stength, a fact I learned before I heard the T5 can also be upgraded. And belive me, My used WC T5 was a bunch cheaper that the T56 was new. Try to find a used aftermarket T56. If I did, then I'd be suspect about it's condition. I would about the T5 too, but I'd be buying it knowing full well it was going to get rebuilt anyway.

 

Yes, all good points. The aftermarket T56 has better ratios than the LT1 T56. They are more like a 1LE spec T5 with a 6th gear.

Stock wise it's hard to argue with the strength of the T56, and it is the Cadillac of manual transmissions. Versatile enough to use in a Camaro or an Aston Martin.

The T5 is a mixed bag. I've seen stock ones go low 10s in a nitrous equipped Mustang with a stroker motor. I've also seen plenty that grenaded on the street in a bone stock car. For serious use I have to say that doing an upgrade is in order. This risk isn't worth it in my opinion. I'd rather know something was up to par than think it might make it.

Also, if you want to sell the T5 outright as a core let me know. I'm always in the market, and they are getting hard to find.

 

So, you're saying just get the gearset and upgraded mainshaft and that should handle most street/strip setups? The case will keep it all in line?

 

I'd say the G-Force setup will handle any street setup, and almost every street/strip setup. There are guys running 9 second ETs with a G-Force T5. Most street/strip cars are nowhere near this fast. A typical street/strip car runs somewhere in the 13-11 second zone. Probably a set of drag radials or even slicks for the track. It's tuned to hook up. Maybe there's some giggle juice, maybe not. Pump gas. Yeah, the G-Force is plenty capable in this kind of car.

 

Not sure I understand what a G-Force T-5 is. You had mentioned to use this and that but this other this and that was not necessary. I am not informed yet on what a G-Force T-5 consists of and if you add to it or subtract from it.

 

Also, I was under the impression that the stock case is still used. I have always read that this is the weak link which causes most of the other parts inside to fail. That is why most have said that the T-5 can't really be upgraded unless someone make a case that is stronger.

 

here is a link to the g force website.
http://www.g-forcetransmissions.com/

this should help

 

Yes, the case is a weak link in any performance transmission I've ever worked on, except maybe a T56. That doesn't stop you from being able to improve the rest of the internals to cope with the inevitable gear tooth misalignment that will occur when the case flexes. This is what the superalloy gears were designed to do, as well as the G-Force gears.

G-Force supplies replacement gears made from harder steel alloy. They are almost twice as strong as the stock gears. At higher torque levels you can wring the stock mainshaft in two, which is why G-Force also offers upgraded mainshafts made from harder alloys. You re-use the stock case, but the guts are so tough that it effectively doesn't matter.

Muncies had this same problem. That led to the development of the M22 for the Corvette racing program. GM's solution was to use gears with less helix angle. This made them louder in operation, but much stronger. It also earned it the nickname "Rockcrusher", because that's what it sounded like.

A straight cut gear is the strongest gear you can have, but it would be so loud that your car would sound like a Pro Ralley car or a Baja truck.

 

TKOPerformance nailed it (of course)

When I called G-Force before I got mine upgraded, I had the same questions about the weak case issue. They basically said that the T-5 case really isn't any "weaker" than any other case, and went on to explain it like TKO just did...

If I woulda known back then that TKO did G Force upgrades I probably would have went with him to save a few bucks. (maybe lol)....

But I got mine upgraded over two years ago, and I don't think TKO was on this board then...

 

I have a chance to pickup a T5 out of an 87 formula, so im taking it thats a non WC tranny
i see your talking about upgrade parts and what not, are they just for the WC tranny? does it matter? im in no hurry to swap so if its not worth picking up and/or not upgradeable in the future thats what im trying to find out

 

how much you getting it for? Is it free if so grab it. otherwise theres a complete t56 swap in the classifieds for 1500$ I believe it stll can be upgraded but im sure tko will chime in and correct me if im wrong.

 

You are correct...G-Force does not do upgrades on NWC T-5's. I had to get a 88 plus (WC) and that was upgraded.

 

Sadly NWC T5s can't be upgraded. All the good parts are for the WC T5s. NWC cores are a dime a dozen.

 

actually I went back to the yard today and checked the vin and it appears to be an 88 formula so, being a little lazy since people are still reading this, is there any quick way to identify a WC/NWC from the outside?? if it is a wc I think ill try to work out a fair price for the whole setup

 

I think it should be a wc if its a 88. What do they want for it? mine has a date on the front side that says 91 with a circle around it. It came in a 92 though so watch out. the 88 could have a 87 tranny.

 

i ve been looking into getting a t-5 tranny in my car wc of course and i figured by a used one and if it ever took a **** to just rebuild it with g-force parts. but does anyone know how much a g-force upgrade cost exactly i dont understand the g-force web page price guide its confusing. thanks

 

Check the trans tag number at www.5speeds.com The number you need is stamped into a metal tag and starts with 1352. The next 3 numbers are important.

Also, if there is a torx head bolt for the reverse pin (left side of the case) it is most likely WC. A hex head bolt indicates a NWC.

The G-Force prices listed on the web do need a little explaining. Basically there are 3 ways you can go with G-Force. The street kit which uses regular synchros, the helical dog ring kit which uses dog ring synchros and helical cut gears, and the straigth cut dog ring kit which uses straigth cut gears and dog ring synchros. The dog ring stuff is race oriented and not well suited to street use. You can also opt to upgrade the mainshaft with either a 9310 high Nickel shaft or a 4340/300M shaft. Solid bronze shift forks are an option on the street kit, but standard on the dog-ring kits. Optional 5th gear sets are also available in a couple of different ratios for each kit style.

 

Well I pulled out the pedal assembly, shifter, clutch mas cyl, etc this afternoon but I couldnt get under the car and see the tag, its kinda in the mud and I didnt even bring a jack so fingers crossed that its worth picking up because im going to get it tommorow
i dont think id say I got a deal though, $500 for everything ill need for the swap
gotta double check whether or not i need the crossmember and/or torque arm

 

maybee, maybee not. depends on who you talk to. your still gonna need a clutch a possible rebuild and a flywheel resurfacing in most cases as it is a 1987.

 

 

$500 for all the parts isn't bad. I've paid that for just a trans. WC T5s for 3rd gens are gettign tough to find, so the prices may be on the rise.

 

yay.. picked it up today, it was in fact an 88 and it is a WC, as far as I can tell from the bearing in the front
the 1352- number on the case... exactly where is that and which one? just out of curiosity
theres 1 on every peice and they are all different, theres a metal tag hanging on one of the bolts thats all rusted and from what i can see of the #'s it doesnt appear to be what im looking for... oh well anyways, im happy
somehow someone mustve misplaced my flywheel though, heh
that and a speed sensor and a new clutch/pilot bushing/throwout bearing, and hopefully ill be good, gonna open it up later and look inside

 

I have an older style fly if you need it. its for a 2 peice rms though. lmk. you pay me 15$ plus shipping and its yours. just resurfaced like 100 miles ago.

 

The tag has the number on it. You usually have to clean it up with some sandpaper or a wire wheel to make it legible though.