My first post and it has to be a problem post.

I just picked up a 89 RS. Its a tbi 305 with a 5-speed and has 111k on the original motor and tranny. The car was running great for about a week. Now I am having an issue with the transmission.

When I first bought it I noticed some slight chatter with the car running, but sitting in neutral. The noise went away when I pushed the clutch in and I chalked it up to some slight chatter.

Two days ago the speedometer just went out while driving. No big deal I thought I can easily replace the cable.

Yesterday after driving for about 30 mins, I left from a friend’s house and noticed a really weird noise coming from the tranny. Its like metal rubbing metal - not grinding - but loud and almost clanking like something is loose. Almost as if something was banging up against the driveline. The noise goes away if I stop, even with the car running. I can push in the clutch and put it in gear (its a little stiff / notchy to get in gear but not a problem). There isn’t any sounds until I let the clutch out and start moving.

After work I am going to change the fluid in the tranny, but I have a bad feeling it isn’t going to help.

I know it’s a vague description but I am not sure where to start. I am pretty mechanical and can do a clutch myself but I am not sure it’s the clutch either. It grabs good and doesn’t seem to be slipping.

Any suggestions…where should I start?
Thanks-

 

Just an update-

I changed gear fluid (ATF) and the problem still persists. While I was under there I did notice there is a small leak that appears to be coming from the front of the tranny. The bell housing was missing a bolt - so I bought one and tightened it up as well. The fluid didn't look too low and was still pretty red.

However, it didn't totally cure the problem. The shifter shifts smooth like butter now, and the sound isnt as bad. Its still lound inside the cabin, from outside it sounds like bearings are loose. A little rattly and scratchy - metal on metal - type of noise.

I searched and found a post discussing the throwout bearing and counter gear bearings.

Is it worth it to pull the tranny and replace the throwout bearing? The sound is audible while the car is started and sitting still ( in neutral), however, when I press in the clutch (disengage?) it goes away.

When I start to drive it sounds very similar to the sound before I press in the clutch (when still) only ALOT lounder and more "shriller" or " metallic". At least inside the cabin.

I am not sure if I should start with the clutch or tranny, and don't have the money to hit and miss.

Thanks-

 

im haveing the same issue as you are, so best of luck to both of us. i am quite convinced that it is the throwout or pilot bearing. really dont think its the tranny. could be different for you though. i know this reply isnt much help but ill post anything i find out when i rip into my clutch assembly and let you know. let me know your results too.

 

Will-do. I have a buddy who is a mechanic for the dodge stealership coming over tonight to take a look at it. I spoke with the previous owner and he is claiming it cannot be the tranny as he had it rebuilt a couple years ago and hasn't really been driving it. No reciepts, but the tranny is super clean - it does look pretty new.

 

U-Joint?

 

Sounds like a really bad pilot bushing/bearing.

 

Can't be the pilot.... that would make the most noise when the clutch is pushed in and the car is in gear. The 2 parts are moving at the same speed (locked together by the clutch) whenever the clutch pedal is out.

Although, if it makes this noise when the car is sitting still, then I'm wrong; it also can't be the U-joints.

If it goes away when you push the clutch, then it also can't be the clutch.

Gotta be the transmission. Probably countergear bearings. If it does it in all gears but ALOT more in 1, 2, 3, 5, & R but not so much in 4th, then it's the countergear.

 

Thanks for all the help. Its pretty confusing, (at least for me). Having just bought the car and not truly knowing the entire history makes it even harder to troubleshoot.

Last night we jacked the car up and tested it in gear on the jack stands and what not. We listened... to try and pinpoint exactly were the noise was coming and when etc...

At first I also thought it could be a U-joint. But even though they are a lil rusty looking they are holding together good.

The noise, and some vibration, feels more like its coming from inside the bellhousing or at least that general area towards the front. Its also very rythmic. When in neutral, with the clutch engaged, (foot off the pedal-clutch all the way out) its about 6 secs in between. With the clutch fully disengaged theres no noise. When moving in gear its non-stop. It sounds like a metal bearing that isn't greased and about to go. There is also tranny fluid leaking from area as well.

We took it off the jacks and road tested it a little, sure enough, it will make the noise in every gear except 4th gear. We didn't get the car up to 40 mph or anything, but by revving it up enough, we could get the car to "put around" in 4th gear and there wasn't any of the screatching and metallic bearing noise.

My buddy (my new mechanic = )) thinks its the throwout bearing. He is going to take it into the shop and put it on the lift and check it out.

Assuming the countergear bearings are the culprit, should I even attempt to replace them? Isn't that pretty much a rebuild? Would I be better off looking for a decent used/rebuilt tranny? Personally, I don't have the time to do an extensive rebuild on my own.

If I buy a replacement tranny would I need the whole setup - bellhousing etc, or just the gearbox? Are there any additional advantages one way or another?

Thanks again-

 

my car did the exact same thing right before it blew the gears through the side of the case. 4th was the only gear it sounded "right" in. its got bad bearings and its eating your gears. no question in my mind.

 

Yup, you got a transmission problem.

Quit driving it. It is about to leave you stranded.

It's already too late to even think about "rebuilding" it; you can get a used non-torn-up one for FAR less than what it will take to renew one that's as smoked as yours. Throw it in the trash and move on.

You need to find a V8 T-5. Don't add yourself to the list of people who think they're going to "save" by using a 6-cyl one, and downgrade their car with the wrong trans. Doesn't matter how "cheeeep" the 6-cyl one is, or how "hard" it seems to be to find a V8 one; it's worth it, to do it right.

Or, swap it to a T-56. But that's a bunch more $$$$ and work than a T-5.

 

Thanks for all the help -

Yea...its not being driven at all since it started making this noise. Well...around the block twice just to test it, but thats it.

I've located a couple used trannys for about $200-300 just have to make sure they are the right model. I also found lt1 6-speed for $500 in a car with a blown motor. From what Ive read on here they are a reasonable swap?

Anyway to tell if the tranny is good, if the motor is blown, or if its pulled form a car? Don't want to plop the money down on a another loser.

As for the T-5, my mechanic said he can rebuild it in about a couple days and may be willing to take some trade on payment...probably looking at the rebuild kit and a couple hundred for him.

decisions decisions....

 

And a couple hundred each for a couple of gears and maybe a main shaft and maybe a case....

What's wrong with your trans, a "kit" won't fix.

Not a good idea to start putting money into a smoked T-5. BTDT too many times to count.

Just replace the trans; you'll come out FAR ahead of trying to fix one that's grenaded.

 

From my past experiences with blowing up misc. manual tranny stuff, I'd have to guess it's either your throwout bearing, a worn or broken release fork, or maybe even a broken bearing retainer. If the spring steel on the release fork has broken, it can cause the throwout to sit loosely and possibly even crooked when it's not pressed against the pressure plate. If the sleeve of the bearing retainer is snapped off, it'll make all kinds of scary noises too, especially when there's no pressure on the clutch pedal. One last possiblility is the input shaft main bearing could be shot. Any way you slice it, you definitely need to remove the trans and bellhousing to locate the problem. Good luck.

 

Your tranny is dying. None of the stock T-5s will live if they've been driven hard. Even after a stock overhaul, you cant trust it to take any kind of vigorous shifting or very much torque.

IMO, you'd be best off rebuilding your tranny. Since your car is an '89 model, it should have a world class T-5 in it, which is a huge advantage over the non-world class trannies typical in pre-89s. The world class is a much better execution of the T-5 design, can take a little more power than it's non-world class predecessor, and has the potential to be built into a reliable hot street tranny.

If you buy another tranny, at least make sure you look for the world class unit. After that, it's a crap shoot. Even looking inside one can't tell you everything about a tranny's condition.

I can't possibly imagine a manual trans camaro or firebird that has never been powershifted, so any T-5 that's not fresh from rebuild is questionable, in my opinion. T-5 parts are not all that expensive, anyway, (certainly not $200 per gear). If you have a good rebuilder willing to cut you a break on his work, do that.

 

A rebuild that includes all of the internals except the main shaft is around 850 with the high alloy gears from astro performance ..:: AstroPerformance.com::.. Your Manual Drivetrain Specialist According to what I read the only concerns they have for a core replacement is that it be a WC the case and tail are good and the shaft has no pitting.

From their site

ALL TRANSMISSION FLUID/OIL MUST BE REMOVED.


CASE, TAILHOUSING, AND/OR TOP-COVER MUST NOT BE "CRACKED/BROKEN." ASTRO IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE TO THE CORE DURING SHIPPING, PLEASE SHIP/PACK CORE WITH CAUTION


TRANSMISSION MUST BE A "WORLD CLASS" MODEL. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO TELL A "WORLD CLASS" MODEL FROM NON-WORLD CLASS, PLEASE CALL.


MAINSHAFT TIP MUST BE FREE FROM "PITTING"; MAINSHAFT MUST NOT BE BENT, CRACKED OR BROKEN.


REMOVE SHIFTER, TRANSMISSION MOUNT AND CROSSMEMBER, SPEEDOMETER SENDING UNIT, AND ANY/ALL OTHER WIRING THAT IS ATTATCHED TO TRANSMISSION.


The site only shows mustang but they do GM too.

 

Do some more research before misleading this guy. I agree with sofakingdom, just find a used tranny. I am running a 100,000+ mile NON World Class in my car for two years now. I run it hard too, been to the track a couple times and alot of severe street use. It shifts the same as the day I put it in and makes no funny noises. This is with 300 rwhp and 320 rwtq.

I would stick a $250 used tranny in it before I wound up with $850 in a T5.

 

Exactly what sort of research would you recommend, rj?

Research on this particular site does not, in any way, support installing a high mileage non WC T-5 in anything, much less a moderate to high powered car.

The T-5 is a very weak piece, and typical of the crap that GM has dumped on us camaro and firebird fans since all the way back in 1967.

Research on this site would indicate that you are way in the minority if you install a 100,000 mile transmission in a performance car and expect it to live, especially a T-5.

Research on this site would also indicate that although your's might be alive today, but it's just a powershift or two away from the grave, amigo.

Buy someones used tranny and its very difficult to determine exactly you're going to get. Like I said, transmissions can look great, even inside, and have serious problems and/or wear.

You can do it. pH8 can do it if he wants, but I wouldn't.

Realize, though, that I rely on my iroc to get me to the office and home everyday, to pick up and drop off kids, and to get me to the airport and home every couple of weeks, all in Fort Worth traffic.

If my car was only for goofing off in the evenings or on weekends, or I lived in some little town where its not too far to walk home, or if I could not afford any other option, maybe I'd stick in a high mileage used T-5.

Naahhh.

 

Since my camaro is a daily driver too, I have been researching my trans options.

Advance auto has a reman WC T-5 for $1,250 with an 18 month unlimited mileage warranty...this price is similar to others found on the web.

I need reliability, but can't justify the $2,000 for a G-force trans and currently have a NWC T-5 in the car, so building this trans is not an option.

Maybe Tremec TKO 600?

HTH.

 

A tremec or T-56 will run you more money than the G-force stuff by the time you get it in, although it might by worth it.

In fairness, the G-force street gear kit runs right at $1100 rather than two grand. Add the small parts kit, and your right around 1300. Other options drive the price up more, of course, and you have to put the whole thing together yourself to get the best deal.

I suspect that either the tremec or T-56 will take more of a beating than a G-force equipped T-5, because of the flimsy T-5 case, however the T-5 has the advantages of direct fit and light weight.

Personally I ordered the G-Force stuff (about three months ago), and will build my trans myself, if I ever get the parts.

TKOperformance tempted me with an 880 buck buildup using Z-spec cobra internals. For lively stock or light performance action this would probably be a pretty good deal. (PM him for info)

If your not completely hung on a manual trans, a decent performance 700r4 might be the best performance and reliability for your money. I'm just tired of NOT shifting gears.

 

The $2000 is for a transmission from G-Force...and the case upgrade is an extra $250...which, if you are going to go this route, would be a wise addition to the cost.

 

Believe it or not the BW 5 speed available in the Monza's and Vega's of the 70's are pretty similar inside to the ones in the Camaros we have. In 1976 mine started making growling noises in every gear but 4th (4th is on the input shaft of that 5 spd, too.) Result of warranty repairs was "no bearings on the input shaft from the factory". A few years later I heard the same noise. This time the bearings on the input shaft just gave up (rubber boot on the top of the shifter had disentegrated and allowed lots of road dirt inside the transmission). If the noise is there except in 4th I'd agree you've probably lost the bearings on the input shaft. Repairs may be as easy as pulling the transmission and replacing the bearings and input shaft. However, if you've got enough miles on it I'd put new bearings, bushings and syncronizers in it so it would last a few more years before you have to pull it again. By the way, the only time I had a worn out pilot bushing (81 Z28 with 4 spd. Muncie) the clutch would slip off a stop light and then lock up good once I was moving. I also had a lot of "bad" vibration around 1800 up to 2300 rpm due to misalignment of the clutch pad between the flywheel and the pressure plate (the hole in the pilot bushing was big enough to put my thumb in rather than big enough to put my pinky in).

 

Looks like Fortes (Forte's Parts Connection (781)-273-9900 - TREMEC DEALER, FACTORY FIVE COBRA PARTS, FORD RACING PARTS, FFR MKI and MKII, MUSTANG PARTS, TRANSMISSIONS, T-56, T-5, TKO, TR-3550 ) is having a special on the 83-92 F-body TKO600 right now. Looks like it would run you a little less $ than the 'ready to go' G-Force T-5, and it would probably end your transmission worries forever. Guess I'll look into the G-Force case since I'm already committed.

 

i have a wc t-5 out of my camaro that will be for sale again. some non bidder on ebay is jacking me around. it was rebuilt before it was install some few years ago, however i only put 20,000 or so miles on it. shifted fine and never grinded. 300 plus shipping and it could be yours. i am using a tremec now for my new eng. combo. it's just sitting at my father-in-laws shop collecting dust. good luck with what ever you decide. dave

 

Not to hijack the thread...but...

I am looking for a usable WC t-5.

PM me...with pics and details...and I have cash

 

Had the same problem as you man, and now I am sitting w/out a tranny. I pulled mine out, looked at the bearing on the input shaft (because I was able to rock the input shaft around) and discovered this:

Edit: That chattering you here is the gear you see in the picture rubbing against the casing of the tranny. Or at least it was in my situation.




So I took it into AAMCO (which I am thinking is a mistake) and they told me that it wll cost $1500 to rebuild. They mentioned that the previous rebuilder of the tranny (before I owned the car) put a sealed bearing in the tranny where a sealed bearing ain't supposed to be which blocked the oil passages and eventually caused everythign to not get proper lubrication. So my plan of action is to just find another T5 (WC) and hopefully that one is able to be rebuilt for cheaper then my current one. I just do not know how to decifer the difference from the two...looks wise I mean.

- Chris

 

Just want to just update this thread a little and let you all know I appreciate the feedback and comments. My mechanic has a new girlfriend so my chances of getting this done cheap and quick are getting slimmer.

But...I ran into an old friend who is a mopar guy and he is willing to help pull it apart tomorrow night and at least see whats going on. Hopefully its as simple as the pilot bearing or throwout and nothing else has taken a beating.

Will be able to post results Friday evening.

RE bigdavesiroc: whereabouts are you located? I may need a new tranny...if shipping isnt too bad, I will keep you mind.

 

Pulled it and popped the top. Countergear and 2nd are both gone. In hindsight it seems pretty obvious.