I am swapping my lg4 out for a built up 350 in my 87 firebird. We all know that the T-5 won't hold up long against anything with some power so I was thinking of putting in the 4 speed muncie I have. Can anyone tell me if I will need to modify anything to be able to drop the 4 speed in?

 

the muncie has a mecanical Clutch setup the T-5 has a hydrolic setup there not interchangaqble as far as I know.. you can put the 4 spd in but you'll need a donor car basically to get all the right parts. In your case I would suggest babying the engine with the T-5 until you can find a T-56 you'll wan't to break it in the engine anyways

I put a sT-10 in my 84 it took some work But I feel it was worth it but mine was originally an automatic

 

You'll need a place to mount the torque arm, since you can't bolt it to the side of the trans like the original trans had.

Look at Spohn's website (sponsor, top of the page), and they have a few methods for installing a ST10/Muncie.

 

you need a different bellhousing.. lakewood sells one for our cars.. it has the t-5 and muncie bolt patterns on it.. and you might have to check around for the clutch setup.. but i think the stock type should work with the correct throwout bearing.. and you should get the spohn torque arm and crossmember package to solve both the torque arm mount and crossmember problems..

 

jegs also sells a torque arm for this kinda thng adjustable and a non-

A trip to the bone yard will fix your Crossmember problem

http://www.jegs.com/p/Jegster/744013/10002/-1

 

Thanks for all the info guys. Is there a certain year of F body I am looking for to get the right cross member? I got this 350 and 4 speed out of an 81 z28. Will the cross member and clutch work from that car work? I know I will have to find a way to mount the torque arm still but it would be easy enough to fab up a bracket for that

 

You can use the bellhousing and probably the crossmember from an '82 Camaro/Firebird that had the 4-spd transmission. That was the first year for the 3rdgen body, and the only year with the 4-spd manual trans. The bellhousing for those 4-spds was 'straight up' and not tilted like the T5 bellhousings, so it should work. The difference between the old style 4-spd bellhousing and the 3rdgen 4-spd bellhousing is the angle of the clutch fork IIRC - old style pointed straight out at 9 o'clock, and the 3rdgens are angled down around 7 o'clock to clear the floorpan. Oh, and the 3rdgen bellhousing is a bit smaller inside, so you need a 153 tooth flywheel, not the old style 168 tooth peice.

The '82 4-spd crossmember should work as well, since some '82s came with a Super T10, and as far as I know, its mount is the same as the Muncie. The '82 ST10 was a one-off thing though, the case was a unique casting to that year that had provisions to mount the torque arm, unlike the 2ndgen ST10 like the '81 you took parts from already. If you use the old style ST10/Muncie, you still need a way of mounting the torque arm to either the trans, the floor, or the crossmember.

 

you'll also need all the clutch stuff out of an 82 your best bet is to find a 4 speed donor car but if you find a 4 speed donor car you could use that tranny

 

Thanks for everyones help. This sounds like way more work then I thought it would be so I will keep the T5 in there for now. I put a 600cfm Edelbrock carb and Flowtech headers and y pipe on the 305 yesterday and its like a whole new car so maybe I will just save the 350 and 4 speed for the 81 camaro I have. Thanks again

 

Honestly, unless by some freak miracle you stumble onto one of the factory '82 Super T10 cars like I did, the 4-spd swap isn't worth it. You can probably spend the same for a much better 6-spd swap (T56) and be much happier with that.

I lucked out finding someone with an '82 TA who was changing over to a TH350, and he happened to have the ST10 setup, and I bought it all, EVERYTHING, off him for like $500.

 

I just pulled out a st-10 out of my 82 for a 5spd. I'll sell you the trans, shifter (hurst) tq arm w/mount minus bolts, driveshaft, and bell housing if you need it, but you can buy a lakewood scattershield for the t-10 that uses your factory hydraulics, down side is the bellhousing is like $400.

 

Can find the scattershield used, if you try hard enough, for half that. I did.

 

i no this is old but im putin in a 4 speen in my 91, and for the clutch system y cant you just make abracket from steel and use your bellhousing bolts to hold it and use your t5 slave they have the same fork and everything. i mean just a sugestion, im goin to try it and ill keep you posted on how it goes,

just if there is a reason y u cant do this someone pm me and tell me b4 i use my time for nothing,

 

The bellhousing is aluminum, so you can't weld your bracket onto it unless its also aluminum. Bolting it on isn't really a good idea, as its under ALOT of pressure when the clutch is disengaged, and there really isn't anything strong enough to bolt it to in a position that it will not bend or break.

The factory bellhousings have it cast in, and the Lakewood steel bellhousings have them welded on. Theres a reason they aren't bolted on.

 

i understand you cant weld to it with steel. but with 1\4in steel it ante gona bend, but i was thinking about the pressure too, but what about a plate that sits behind the bell but infront the trans, and made it from there, might look a lil stupid but im sure it would work. with all the bends you would have to make im sure u could put some supports in and male it strong as he!!,
im gona try to make a couple ian ill post picke because im sure im not the only one who dont have the cash for a doner car

 

1/4 plate bends very easily, it's strength all depends on the angle/direction of the load. You will have some serious head aches involved, along with a good amount of steel, much of which will likely add up to the cost of a good sfi-type bellhousing. - the placement of the slave cylinder is critical to it functioning properly, and the brackets strength can be critical the your insurance(garage walls and the next car up in traffic aren't very bouncy).

All for a weak muncie? Behind a mild to moderate sbc, ok. Behind a stout sbc or mild bbc you can break them all day long, I killed my fabbled "rock-crusher" about 6 times in my bbc '69 camaro before switching to an 18-spline chrysler "crash-box".

 

ok ive been thinkin if the bracket wont work what about the hyd bearing? they have them at summit made for a t5 master? would this work. i mean i have hear nothing good or bad about them

 

Thats a much better idea than the bracket. I`ve never used one myself, but I know the LS1 T56 cars used them.

 

but the next ? on that is if i got the stock clitch for a 91 t5, will i b able to hook it up to that or do i also have to buy i new clutch master with a screw in fitting for the bearing

 

ok so ive did a lil lookin around and they make a fitting for the t5 master that allowes you to have a thred on fittting, or do you think it would b much easyer to just run the t56 set up seeing how the master will just bolt rite up, only benifit is that the t56 you can buy with a 24in braded line and goes rite on the bearing

 

Hey was reading this thread and tried the Hydro bearing setup from Howe, some extra braided line to connect master to the new slave/bearing setup. Installed M21 and now waiting on a drive shaft. Used standard clutch setup for my 72 400 small block, bolted it up and checked for clearances. I see no problems, also used Sphon cross member from T56 setup and fab'd new trans mount. (It was just lying there so I used it) If I brake it I'll let you know. Everything seems to work great at the moment......

Bell housing and trans from 72 Nova. Hurst shifter. 12" ZOOM Clutch.
400HP / 3:42 gears /

 

send the whole T-5 to G-Force, they will rebuild it to handle around 500ft-lbs, and you dont have to worry about custom fitting. you can do all of this for a little under $2000

 

k 2000 compeared at like 1200 with a m 21. and a better power band i like the 4 speer i have in, i used the howe bearing too, just also used a fitting that uses my stock clutch master into a -4an line to the bearing, then the tubeuler torque arm to a th 400 mount bolted rite in, when i get it back from the shop ill post pics, getin the carb tuner and timeing

 

5.0slayer.....did your setup work....pics??????
you used stock t5 clutch master and it works okay?

 

yes it works fine, im selling my set up rite now if you lookin fo it, i have every thing you need but the trans mount, pm me.
also willl part out

 

What are you guys doing to hook up the speedometer to the older muncie or st-10 transmissions??