91' 305 TBI Camaro -

When the car is first started the clutch is fine, engages near the top. But after running a few minutes or pushing the clutch a few times, it fully engages about a 1/2 inch from the floor and then eventually wont go into gear. After stopping for a few seconds and slowly pushing the clutch, it will go into gear. But then the issue continues...

Now as far as Ive always known, clutch problems steady get worse, not - bad, good, bad, good. So what could be my problem?

 

Just a guess but you may have air in the line and might need to bleed the hydrolics.

 

thats what it sounds like to me. you don't have any leaks do you?

 

How would it have air in the lines? Would be something else wrong to get air in the lines?

Ive had cars before that had air in the lines and the clutch sucked all the time. Not the whole fine one minute and then crappy the next...

Not losing any fluid at all. And since Ive metioned that to mechanics and others, they say clutch slave and/or master cylinders.

What do you guys think of that? Thanks guys!

 

Ok Im going to try and bleed it out tomorrow (give you guys time to reply). Fluid looks crappy anyway. So cheapest and easiest first.

Where is the bleed valve? Any more tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

Anyone?

 

did you bleed it? r u still having the same problem?

 

Clutch flushed and bled. Now drivable, feels much better. But engauge and disengauges in different places. Migration is stil very little much much less than before.

 

Ok, it hit the floor again. Seems the more I use it the worse it gets. Or if I hold it down. Slow return. If Im cruising (not using the clutch) for a minute or so, it works fine again...

Ive done the recommendation of bleeding... So what now?

 

swap both master and slave cylinders and if you still have trouble then i don't know

 

Would it be unwise to get used parts? I really cant afford 100 dollar parts right now...

 

First of all, make sure the comonents are in good condition. I wouldn't use salvage parts unless you absolutly know they're good as new. I think the master was around $45 and the slave even less.

1. If the master/slave cylinder is leaking, there should be fluid visable somewhere.

If it's at the master, you may not see it immediatly cause of the boot on the inside. But eventually there will be fluid inside the firewall by the pedal. Move the boot around and you may see fluid come out.

If it's the slave, you should see fluid where the rod comes out going to the clutch fork. It may drip off so you might have to look real close for signs of leaks such as wet, grimy muck.

2. The mechanical linkage may be the problem.

If the master is loose it may be moving around. Also, there's a bushing where the clutch pedal interfaces with the master cylinder rod. Mine was worn out and it made the rod too "short" to stroke fully. I bought a bronze bushing at Home depot and sanded the ID until it was the right size to replace the factory plastic bushing.

You may want to check the clutch fork and make sure it's fully seated on the pivot ball in the bellhousing.

Another thing. After I installed a Ram clutch, it seemed to need a bit more travel to disengage than the stock one. It seemed worst when the car had been driven for a while (hot). I suspect that the plastic hydraulic line running from the master to slave is swelling slightly when hot and "using" some of the fluid to swell the line instead of moving the slave.

I ended up making my master cylinder rod adjustable. There's a 3-4" section of the rod thats about .320" in diameter. I cut it in two at the center of this section and threaded both ends to 5/16" NC. Then, I took a "long" 5/16" nut (avalible at Home Depot etc) and a couple of regular nuts to couple the two shafts together. Now I can adjust the rod length, therefore raising the pedal and giving me more clutch stroke. This along with the bronze bushing has eliminated the problems I had.

 

Thanks for all the input, but extending the rod wouldnt fix it. Remember its not just doing it at the floor all the time, its back and forth. Ex. taking off in first, engauges less then 1/4" from the floor then second would engauge all the way at the top etc... And next time it could be perfect... I have noticed though, that if I hold it down then it will f-up...

If it were any of the issues you described, other than master/slave, then it would disengauge at the same place or steadily get worse, right?

I am most certainly not losing even a drop of fluid. No leaking at all. As far as I can tell the master is secured well to the FW.

Prices at AZ were 45 and 43, selling a puppy sat, so hopefully Ill get something going.

Which should I try first? Master or slave?

 

i say go with the master even do its harder to get to i think its more likely to fail than the slave. you know its putting all the pressure and i have seen it in brake master cylinders the little cups inside have a lip that is what seals and creates the pressure i have seen that lip rip or split and stops working like its supposed to creating good pressure when it seats right and no pressure when it moves know what im saying

 

Ive talked to many ppl and they all said Slave first... Not that Im dis agreeing, I just dont understand why one or the other.

Also I couldnt get the rubber boot off the master cyl, but i did feel around very well, while pushing in and out the rod to no avail of fluid. So still no leakage.

Thanks for your input!

 

Slave has been replaced... and problem remains...

Well I wanted to see if it was even a hydralic problem. So we checked fork and slave travel. What would happen is the fork would not go all the way, so therefor it would engauge sooner when I release the peddle. So def a hydralic problem and def master cyl.

Should have listened to you, thanks for all the input guys.

I will post when/if it works. So those who have this issue in the future will find this thread and possible solution.

 

If you still have the same problem after you change the master. It could be the throw out bearing if its making noise also pivet pen or fork.

 

No noise. Im pretty positive its a hydralic problem, do to the fact that its not pushing the fork all the way...

 

Wohoo! Great driving with a proper clutch again!

Thank all of you for your help!

It was the Clutch Master Cylinder.....

I was somehow able to get them to take back the Slave and get me a master LOL... God bless customer service!

 

Told you so JK

 

owned LOL

 

hey im having this EXACT problem now, but i lost ALOT of fluid at one time, one big puddle, and i think it came from the slave, because the master fluid is full. my question is, where does the slave draw its fluid from? because ALOT of fluid came out, and its not the master and now i have this problem.

 

it all comes from the reservoir attached next to the power brake booster from there it goes to the master cylinder which in turn pushes it into th slave cylinder make sure you are checking the reservoir for the clutch (small see trough cylinder attached on the side of the booster held by only one bolt) and not the master cylinder for the brakes which is in the front of the cylinder and held by two bolts (one bolt/nut shared by both the clutch and brake masters.)

 

i have checked both, the brakes are full, as is the clutch, but like i said clutch fluid was all over the ground, why would the clutch still be full of fluid?

 

i just noticed you got a t56 on that one i don't any experience but if there is no more leakage i wouldn't worry about it but i will keep an eye on my fluid for a while do are you having any other problems?

 

yes i am having a problem, my clutch is random when it engages, it never engages the same when i let off the clutch, sometime immediatly, sometimes at the top of the peddle throw, here it what i posted in another thread:

i have a t56 in my z, has been in there for 25000 miles, no problems that i know of, a little noisy when in neutral with my foot off the clutch peddle maybe T.O. bearing? not sure, but has been like that for a while, also makes a bit of a grinding bearing noise if i don't give it enough gas when starting from a stop. so a couple times, my clutch peddle just stayed on the floor, but the clutch did not release, so i was stuck in gear. now today, it did it again, went back to normal, did it again, then back to normal again. to get it off the floor, i have to put my foot behind the peddle and pull it up. i waited 10 min, and now the clutch either sticks down, works normally randomly, but about 80% of the time the clutch engages as soon as i start letting it up off the floor, when before this all started it wouldnt engage untill i almost had my foot completely off of it. also i have 4th gen peddles fyi. so does this sound like the seal on the master cylinder is blown, or the slave? i dont know what the crap is going on! oh, my fluid is full and not bubbly.

 

did you also used the master and slave from the 4th gen

 

yes, all 4th gen stuff

 

Wow, I didnt even know this thread was still going. Anyway your problem sounds exactly like mine, and I mean to the T. Start with changing out your master cyl, cheaper and easier to replace than anything else. And its most likely your problem. It was mine. If it was your throw out, then your clutch would suck all the time, not intermitently IIRC.
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And since you have a puddle of fluid, it proves its a hydralic problem...

Look under your brake booster and see if there is any fluid on the master cyl, also pull of the rubber boot on the inside of the car and look for fluid (very small amounts is ok). Check lines. Otherwise go with the slave.

 

i'm pretty sure its the slave, in college so not a lot of time to work on the car , but the slave is completely dry... as is the m/c, i will check again tomorrow, hopefully one of those will be the problem. what leaves me puzzled, is that the m/c fluid is full? i dont understand how that could be with the amount of fluid i found on the ground. also, could a bad t/o bearing cause the hydrolics to work extra hard, and wear them out, because im 99% sure the t/o is making alot of noise

 

That question might qualify for a new thread, as your setup is a T56 and may have different characteristics. But it does make sence though. Dont know too much about them but it could have possibly put too much pressure against the slave, which in turn what caused it to leak, that is if its the problem. I still would replace the hydrolic components first, as it is an obvious problem, and then see what happens.

 

What section of Home Depot did you find the bronze bushing?