Just wondering if an auto with a transgo shift kit, and vette servo is equivalent to a stick shift performance wise? Of course personal opinion can be stick over auto, but as far as performance? Take the same exact cars one with stick and one with auto and usually everyone says the sticks got it. Does that change with a shift kit and new servo?

 

you forgot one important variable: the skill of the driver.

 

no i realize that. But what im saying is this, you take 2 cars exactly like each other, same driver, driving each car in the quarter, ones a stick, ones an auto with a transgo shift kit and vette servo. Which one is gonna get the faster ET "most likely". Not counting traction, reaction time, all that ****. Im just trying to ask, is an auto wiht the shift kit and vette servo just as good as a manual?

 

Auto Is best For Drag.
Noone can Shift as Fast as An Auto Tranny.




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60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Z28 LG4 - Daily Driver
**Mods**
MSD Superconductors
14" Open Element
KYB all around

 

You also forget, the manual runs WAY more of a risk of f**** up his tranny.. i.e. skipping shifts and ****... When you start building HUGE horsepower there is only one wy to go AUto
when you are draggind only one way to go.,... AUTO
when you are autocrossing only one way to go Manual..

I prefer auto, Keep my eyes on the road and all my guages dont even need to think about anything else.. also i'd be ****ing scared to powershift my car...

Dropped trannies are not cool

 

Plus, imagine a stick driver when a nitrous shot, a missed shift, and no rev-limiter combine? Ouch! (Altho the same could happen if the auto trans takes a dump...)

Hard question, Josh.. when I buy another (v8) f-body, that decision will drive me mad. I love my auto (shift kit/4-3 kickdown valve/supercooler/remote filter), but a manual sounds fun... Hm...


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

doesnt manuals take less power away from the engine therefore getting more power to the pavement

 

yes, but No Torque Converter

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60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Z28 LG4 - Daily Driver
**Mods**
MSD Superconductors
14" Open Element
KYB all around

 

A manual transmission will put more power down to the pavement and if all conditions are equal it will run through the quarter faster then the automatic. A manual transmission will supply approximately 6% more power to the road then an automatic transmission. The manual transmission also has a gear ratio advantage over the automatic, that keeps the engine in the power band longer. As you run through the quarter mile you will have four gear ratio changes with a stick verse 3 changes with a automatic.

The reason most drag cars run automatic transmissions is because they are bracket racing and an automatic will be more consistant which is what wins bracket races. If you are looking for the best times a stick shift car will beat an automatic with all other conditions being equal.

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1988 Formula 5L/5sp 3.45 gears, SLP cold air kit, MAS gutted, TPIS air foil, TPIS AFPR, MAC headers, Mac under drive pulleys, MAC cat back, Relocated MAT.
Best ET street tires 13.85
Best 60 FT street tires 1.930
Best MPH street tires 99.29

 

BJ, Are you saying thats true even if the automatic is hooked up with the transgo shift kit and vette servo which makes it shift much faster? You still say the manual? Just wondering because that was the original question.

 

I wonder how the power loss compares between a manual transmission, and an automatic "forced into" lockup mode. You guys know what switch I'm talking about (in the tech section, TCC lockup)- I shaved 0.17 seconds off my 1/4 time with that switch.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

The automatic is by far the more consistent of the two trannys because it is more likely to shift at the same point everytime,shift far faster than a manual and a never screw up and miss a shift unless it grenades.Automatics by far launch harder and accelerate quicker due to the use of a torqe converter by adding torque to the rear wheels.If two cars are equal and the drivers ability are equal a manual car will never beat a automatic in a short race.The manual tranny is more effcient than the auto because there is no slippage in a manual aside from the inital first gear engagment.Auto trannys waste power at high RPM's due to slippage.The same auto tranny that smoked the manual tranny in the short race will fall to the manual in the long run becasue it is more efficient.On a drag strip you don't have enough space for this to happen.I have owned both manuals and autos and I would by far choose a properly built auto over a manual anyday.

[This message has been edited by Superman (edited December 14, 2000).]

 

Tom, i read the article for the TCC lockup switch. It looks really easy to do, but can you tell me exactly what it does. I probably sound kinda stupid, but i dont get exactly what locking up the torque converter does. Also it says it CAN be bad for your tranny...how often do you use it, and have you had any problems with it?

 

It Does exactly like it souns like it does, It locks Up the Converter, So it dosent slip,

I use mine in OD on the freeway and thats about it.



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60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Z28 LG4 - Daily Driver
**Mods**
MSD Superconductors - Vaccum Advance Distributor
14" Open Element - Mech Qjet
KYB all around - Smog EQ Mostly Removed.
Best ET as of yet : 3 hours + to Drive To the Nearest Track

 

Thanks Bort, i kinda figured it locked up the torque converter But I meant explain exactly what locking the converter does. I guess youll just have to explain it to me in detail, because i dont know what the torque converter does exactly and why locking it up would benefit. By the way bort, im from pleasanton, always nice to see a few bay area people here

 

The torque converter uses a fluid coupling to allow slippage when starting and changing gears, it has a similar purpose to the clutch in a manual. Unfortunately, the torque converter always slips a little, unlike a clutch which has no slippage. Locking the torque converter eliminates the slippage, reducing heat and increasing mileage.

Forcing the torque converter to be locked all the time is like shifting without the clutch in a manual.

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1984 Camaro Z28 Astral Silver w/ 2 1/2" cowl induction hood
Engine: Decked 383 cid 4 bolt w/ oil cooler, 9.6:1 compression, ARP fasteners, 600 cfm Performer carburetor, Torker II intake, Performer RPM Heads, XE268H cam, Magnum roller tip rockers, MSD6AL ignition, Blaster2 coil, recurved HEI distributor
Exhaust: Terminator headers, Custom 3" TIG welded stainless exhaust, Twister muffler
Transmission: 4L60 w/ Corvette servo, .500 boost valve, TransGo 7-CS clutch springs, 700 PKH pump rings, 700-2 reprogramming kit, Borg-Warner High-Energy frictions & bands, 2400 RPM lockup torque converter
Drivetrain: 2.73:1 limited-slip Dana 44 w/ disc brakes
Tires: Front P225/50VR15 Rear P265/50VR15 Eagles

 

I could give a half dozen reason for BOTH, demostrating each was better. And each does have its advantages and disadvantages.

But, I think ALL would agree that when it comes to a nice "twisty" road, a standard is a lot more fun. And, if you are stuck in traffic and trying to drink your coffee, an automatic is very convenient.

Before purchasing my GTA in 1991, I ALWAYS drove standards. But I went for the automatic, because I was tired of burning out clutches due to the large amount of city traffic that I use to have to drive in.

I have no idea which I would get now, if I was to buy a new car. I like both.

 

I bet the automatic is nicer at the top of 1st and Columbia too, isn't it Glenn?

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1984 Camaro Z28 Astral Silver w/ 2 1/2" cowl induction hood
Engine: Decked 383 cid 4 bolt w/ oil cooler, 9.6:1 compression, ARP fasteners, 600 cfm Performer carburetor, Torker II intake, Performer RPM Heads, XE268H cam, Magnum roller tip rockers, MSD6AL ignition, Blaster2 coil, recurved HEI distributor
Exhaust: Terminator headers, Custom 3" TIG welded stainless exhaust, Twister muffler
Transmission: 4L60 w/ Corvette servo, .500 boost valve, TransGo 7-CS clutch springs, 700 PKH pump rings, 700-2 reprogramming kit, Borg-Warner High-Energy frictions & bands, 2400 RPM lockup torque converter
Drivetrain: 2.73:1 limited-slip Dana 44 w/ disc brakes
Tires: Front P225/50VR15 Rear P265/50VR15 Eagles

 

Ape, the way you describe locking the TC all the time seems horrible for the tranny. I know shifting a manual without using the clutch is not a very nice way to treat your tranny...so is it really this bad locking your converter? I mean im sure it's not GOOD for it, but is it that horrible if you do it just every once in a while? How about on my 200,000 mile tranny. It will have a transgo shift kit and a vette servo after christmas, will locking the torque converter for a race every once in a blue moon really trash it? My tranny has no noticeable problems as of now

 

Someone else would have to tell you what would happen to the internals if you left it locked up ALL the time, but I wouldn't think that doing it once in a while for a few seconds in a race is likely to cause sudden catastrophic damage. Maybe a little premature wear though. Even shifting a manual without the clutch supposedly isn't THAT bad once in a while.

If it's any consolation, leaving the TCC unlocked all the time can be bad too. Slipping all the time will cause more heating than normal which over time can damage the transmission.

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1984 Camaro Z28 Astral Silver w/ 2 1/2" cowl induction hood
Engine: Decked 383 cid 4 bolt w/ oil cooler, 9.6:1 compression, ARP fasteners, 600 cfm Performer carburetor, Torker II intake, Performer RPM Heads, XE268H cam, Magnum roller tip rockers, MSD6AL ignition, Blaster2 coil, recurved HEI distributor
Exhaust: Terminator headers, Custom 3" TIG welded stainless exhaust, Twister muffler
Transmission: 4L60 w/ Corvette servo, .500 boost valve, TransGo 7-CS clutch springs, 700 PKH pump rings, 700-2 reprogramming kit, Borg-Warner High-Energy frictions & bands, 2400 RPM lockup torque converter
Drivetrain: 2.73:1 limited-slip Dana 44 w/ disc brakes
Tires: Front P225/50VR15 Rear P265/50VR15 Eagles

 

Apeiron, yeah, when I use to have a standard, I use to HATE minivans that pulled RIGHT UP TO MY BUMPER when I was on a hill. I thought many times of slowly letting my car roll down to their bumper, put it in reverse and push them backwards.

I just moved to Kamloops, so I have never driven a standard here. But there were places in New Westminster/Coquitlam that I dreaded having to start with my standard...due to the jerks with the minivans 6" from my rear bumper.

 

Josh, even with the shift kit and the Corvette servos the stick shift will still be faster the the automatic in the quarter mile. Like I mentioned in my previous post, the automatic will be more consistant then the stick but the stick will be faster with all other things being equal.



------------------
1988 Formula 5L/5sp 3.45 gears, SLP cold air kit, MAS gutted, TPIS air foil, TPIS AFPR, MAC headers, Mac under drive pulleys, MAC cat back, Relocated MAT.
Best ET street tires 13.85
Best 60 FT street tires 1.930
Best MPH street tires 99.29

 

bjankuski, if all this were equal we'd be talking about 2 transmissions with the same number of gears at the same ratios, in which case my money would be on the automatic. I don't know that there's really a way to say one is faster than the other.

Glenn, I got a great story to tell you some time about a cop doing that to me at the top of 1st Ave when I was driving my buddy's 5 speed Supra when I was 18.


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1984 Camaro Z28 Astral Silver w/ 2 1/2" cowl induction hood
Engine: Decked 383 cid 4 bolt w/ oil cooler, 9.6:1 compression, ARP fasteners, 600 cfm Performer carburetor, Torker II intake, Performer RPM Heads, XE268H cam, Magnum roller tip rockers, MSD6AL ignition, Blaster2 coil, recurved HEI distributor
Exhaust: Terminator headers, Custom 3" TIG welded stainless exhaust, Twister muffler
Transmission: 4L60 w/ Corvette servo, .500 boost valve, TransGo 7-CS clutch springs, 700 PKH pump rings, 700-2 reprogramming kit, Borg-Warner High-Energy frictions & bands, 2400 RPM lockup torque converter
Drivetrain: 2.73:1 limited-slip Dana 44 w/ disc brakes
Tires: Front P225/50VR15 Rear P265/50VR15 Eagles

 

I think sometimes stick cars are faster because of the gear ratios in the trans. As oppesed to an automatic, a 5-speed has lower 1st and 2nd gear ratios than an automatic. At least thats how it is with a 5.slow. But with a stick, the consistency of your launches and shifts isnt really there like an auto. But sticks are more fun to drive!

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1989 GTA, L98/auto, t-tops, Black w/ grey int.
Ran a 14.85 @ 93.4 mph BONE STOCK

 

Bort, you shouldn't have to use a switch to lock the torque convertor up in OD; the computer does that anyway. In fact the computer engages the TCC in 3rd gear. The lockup switch "mod" lets you engage the TCC earlier (in 2nd).

Josh, the shift kit & servo might cause more wear to the 200k mile transmission than an occasional forced TCC lockup. Unless, of course, the trans fluid was changed yearly, and the unit wasn't beat on. The '91 700r4's were stronger than, say, an '86 700r4 (sigh), if that makes you feel better. Of course strange things do happen, so I'm not going to tell you to lock it up. "It works for me, use at your own risk"- oh my (3rd) trans is only a year old.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Yes, manuals are more fun to drive. But in F-bodies, the 700R4 has a lower 1st gear than the close ratio T-5 (3.06 vs 2.95). That, coupled with the torque multiplication of the converter, means that a TPI car with decent gears and the 700's 1st gear is an animal out of the hole. Stoplight to stoplight, the 700R4 cars are stronger.



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91 Trans Am WS6
Bright White
5.0 TPI auto
Flowmaster 3" 2 chamber catback
Trans Go shiftkit
2000 stall converter

supposed 'peanut cammed' car (yeah, right)

Built on Wednesday