Hey guys I'm in need of some help. I'm getting some new toys with my taxes and one of them is a good stall. Here's some specs on the car to help.

2800-2900 lb car
3.42 gears
ZZ4 cam with 1.6 intake 1.5 exhaust 211/221-506/510
mildly worked ZZ4 heads
either my 50mm 3704 intake or a 7101 RPM intake (undecided)

I hope thats enough info. So what would be a good stall for me? I have a tranny cooler so no worries there. I want to keep a sembalance of streetability without being to harsh on the gas aspect. What brand would you guys recommend? I have more questions but let's see where this goes first.

 

What's the advertised (total) duration of the camshaft? I'm not sure if GM ever lists it. The @.050 isn't good enough. With the advertised duration, I can recommend a stall speed.

 

I would think a 2800 to 3200 stall converter would be a nice fit for the 700r4 and your setup. Not optimal for the track on slicks, but good, and not silly on the street.

Stephen can answer you better, but for what it's worth....

I had an 84 Z a number of years back. I was running 700r4 but with 400 small block and a comp cams XE268. It was 3200 lb with 3.73's. It ran 13.00 at 108.8mph on all season tires (245/50's) with a 1.8 60 foot. Due to my cheap tendencies at that time and my complte lack of care for my trans (had been through about 4 by that time) I selected a STOCK torque converter for a early 90's (93?) jimmy. It was a cheapie aftermarket replacement actually that had lock-up...cost about $100 at the time. I also ran a torque converter lock-up switch that forced lockup in 2,3,4th gears regardless of throttle position which was worth 3 tenths on that setup. I could footbrake stall to 2600rpm, and it would flash to 2900. It was very friendly on the street, but had more stall than the stock v8 converter.

Remember it was only rated for 2400 stall, behind a v6, but behind the 400 it stalled much higher due to the torque.

 

I got this info off off the gilbert chevrolet website

This hydraulic roller tappet is used on the 5.7-liter H.O. 350 ZZ3 & 4 engines. The duration at lash point in degrees (intake/exhaust) is 275/280; duration at .050” tappet lift (intake/exhaust) is 208/221; and maximum lift with 1.5:1 rocker ratio (intake/exhaust) is 474/501. Valve lash is zero/zero and lobe centerline is 112 degrees
I thought exhaust lift was .510?
Does this help?

 

peak torque is the norm for racing stall speed-so go lower than that.

 

2500-2800 stall would work best for that camshaft. The total duration determines where the powerband is. That camshaft probably has a powerband in the range of 2200-5200. A street torque converter should stall about 500 rpm into the powerband. The rated stall speed of a converter is only an estimate. Stall speed depends on how much torque is put into the converter. A converter that stalls at 2500 behind a low torque motor may stall at 2800 behind a higher torque motor. A full race converter should stall about 1000 rpm into the powerband.

Intake, heads, gearing etc all need to complement the engine's operating range. It's easy to mismatch parts although they would still work together. 4.10 gears with a TPI engine will work but the engine won't like the higher rpms. Putting a tunnel ram on a car that barely goes above 3500 rpm will work but bottom end torque will greatly suffer.

It's getting the whole combination to work together that will produce the best results. There's nothing wrong with your cam choice. It's better than stock and it's not a race cam. You'll never had a perfect combination that will do everything. People always seem to think they can build a high HP engine and get 25 MPG that they can drive every day or build a high rpm race engine that only goes back and forth to work.

I have no idea what the ZZ4 heads are speced out to. Typically, a factory head doesn't like going above .500" lift. As long as the valvetrain is capable of the increased lift, they should work. It's not just about piston to valve clearance. The springs should not reach coil bind at full lift and the underside of the spring retainers must not hit the top of the valve guides at full lift.

 

The 208/221/112LC camshaft is fine. The WOT shift point on this should be about 5,200-5,300rpm with a 305ci motor. How do you drive? Conservative? Moderate? Moderately aggressive? Or aggressively? And is this a daily driver or a weekend warrior. I can help you determine the stall speed. Let me know? Dana

 

Remember too much stall in a street car may be fun for launching and spinning tires. but if you go with too much you can burn your tranny out. so you have to get a good balance. If you put a 4500 stall in with a high gear the convertor will be slipping and creating heat while driving down the road. and dont think adding a cooler can solve this problem. It will only help if your right at the edge or just over the edge on going with too much. Just thought I'd mention the whole heat thingso you dont burn up your tranny

 

My car for the most part is a daily driver with the occasionall weekend romp. I don't a huge stall, just something that will compliment my other mods well.

 

I wouldnt go over 3000 then.And to be safe an external trans cooler wont hurt a thing

 

What brand would be best for my application?

 

anybody?

 

Any reputable company. The quality of the converter is generally directly proportional to the cost. You will be looking at an expensive converter for a lock-up one for the 700r4 compared to a non-lockup converter. I had luck with b&m, TCI I've heard good things about too, but there are expensive custom manufacturers out there that build a superior converter in terms of efficiency. I just ran that cheapie mentioned in my earlier post. It lasted two race seasons and actually didn't fail. The trans was pulled to go to a t56, and it was healthy.

If you want, check out http://www.700r4l60e.com/torque_converter_prices.html. The explanation offered is more telling of converter quality. There are several good companies to buy from, so take your time and do a little research. The #1 killer of a 700r4 is dirt and internal leaks. They are related because seals get torn up by the dirt. A failing converter can produce 'material', 'dirt', whatever you want to call it and it can destroy a very expensive trans. The failure usually starts at the pump if the converter caused it. PM me if you want some detailed technical specs for the 700r4. I have lots of info related to the actual operation of the trans internally.

 

Here's what I'm thinking.

https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/prod...&cat=59&page=1

How does this one sound? I know I'm coming off like a newb but If I'm going to spend the money I want the best I can get for my application.

 

Maybe I can help you out. I work for a company called Transmission Specialties. Our website address...www.Transmission-specialties.com.

I do a huge amount of racing converters on a daily bassis and we also carry every street/stip stlye converter you could need. I have even sold about 4-5 of the 700-r4 converters to members from this board. Check the vendors forum.

With the application you have you would be fine with a 12 inch street converter. It would max out at around 2800 to 2900 rpm's depending on the torque your motor makes. Your power range is determined by the Duration of your cam at .050 tappet lift. That is the accepted method because all cam companys regardless of who they are can not change the fact that .050 is .050.

The idea of Advertised cam duration was done by cam companys to advertise big numbers for there cam starting at the base of the cam lobe (.006 tappet lift) where the lobe is obviously much bigger. The problem is that some companys will advertise at .006 inches while others advertise at .005 or .007. They are not accepted figures to determine power ranges.

As stated your car will produce a power range of around 2000 to 5500. A 2800 stall would be a great way to optimize that power when you put the pedal down.

If you have any further questions you can PM me. I have about 20 of these built at all times and on the shelf ready to ship.

 

Robert, what you had turned up looks good. But I do suggest checking out a few different sources before buying. Fast LS1 will be able to give you good options as well. One thing is for sure though, if your car does not have the traction to accomodate the harder hitting, higher stall, torque converter then you could end up actually being slower to the 60 foot because you are doing a most impressive burnout rather than accelerating. That being said, I'd go for a 2800-3200 stall converter. It's personal taste to some extent. If you haven't been in a car with a significantly increased stall, I's suggest the lower range of that, which is what most people are suggesting anyway. Driving in a car with high stall actually annoys some people, but 2800 will not be rediculous, and unless you're loading up the converter while in traffic the increased heat isn't that bad in a lockup converter. Its the constant slipping in a non-lockup converter that really heats things up in a street car. I suggest you install a trans fluid temperature guage. Loading the converter for too long is a classic way to kill it and subsequently your trans with heat. (ex. Foot on brake and gas, for more than short duration)

Cheers,
-Brad.

 

Hey Robert, I'd have to agree that for your application you'd be fine with a stalled up 12" converter. I can recommend a company that's right close to home. Roadrunner converters in Phoenix. My buddy put one of their 2600-2800 stall, 12" converters in his 4L60E behind an LT4 hot-cammed, 383 LT1, and it works wonderfully. Granted, a Vigilante converter from Precision Industries is pretty much the cream of the crop, but those run in the range of $700-$900, and the Roadrunner only costs about $230. B&M seems to make good converters for the old trusty TH350's, but I've heard of numerous bad experiences with their 700r4 converters.

 

I can get a roadrunner converter from a local tranny shop here in town, they are a distributor for them. I'll have to give them a call tomorrow. Does anybody else here have any experience with them?

 

$260 shipped for a 2800 stall from TSI from me. I can give you references.